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Do you own Stolen Audio Gear?


HarryO

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If you're looking for a super bargain on Craigslist you might make sure you get a receipt and save any information you can about your purchase.

There's been a lot of talk about Craigslist lately as a prime place to "fence" stolen merchandise.

I'm wondering if the "CHEAP" bargains may be the real "STEALS".

There seems to be a lot of uninformed "OWNERS" of high end gear lately.

A good friend of mine bought 3 guitars from a guy on Craigslist and sold them on Ebay. Turns out they were stolen and he's out $8,000.00 from Paypal account.

On our local news last night reported a gentleman that found his stolen items on Craigslist and reported it to the cops. Busted!!

Seems like there's a lot of nice gear floating around that the sellers know absolutely nothing about.

Just a thought. Might want to make sure you get receipts and keep the info handy.

Harry

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I hadn't really thought about this before, but I think there is proper reason for concern.

If someone is offering something for near nothing out of the trunk of a car, it's easy enough to spot stolen merchandise.

On Ebay, the market is such that it makes it hard to tell. For example, I have shopped ebay from time to time for a decent used laptop, but the prices they bring are way higher than I'd pay for a used laptop, so I just end up buying a new or refurbed unit for just a few bucks more than a 3 year old laptop on Ebay. Go figure.

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I bought a really nice parka on E-Bay for my son as a gift. When I received it I inspected it, made sure it was new (as represented) and put it away. Some time later I got it out to ship to my son and that sucker still had its anti-theft tag in place on the inside lining of the coat. I knew then it was stolen. The Ebay seller was gone. I felt bad but did not know what to do so I removed the tag (no easy task there) and sent it on. I don't use Ebay much anymore.

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I never really thought about the risk of buying stuff off CL before and just last week I went to go purchase a DVD player from some guy I didn't know. I got his address and it just so happened that he was located in the worst part of town (I didn't clue in). I still went to his pad, and he had quite the system set up (Mac, B&W, Music Hall). In fact, I was admiring and commenting on his racks (and racks) of gear and stacks of speakers. They were all set up in his listening room quite nicely.

I asked him to demonstrate that the DVD player worked and, well, it worked but he didn't know how to use it.

The whole scene clicked then. I told him I didn't want it and walked out (looking over my shoulder to make sure he wasn't coming at me with a knife or something).

I'll be asking quite a few more questions next time I want to purchase equipment from CL. Beware.

-PB

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So that would mean the folks who post links to "finds" on craigslist could be accessories to felony level theft's?

Actually, in the case of the Forum... highly unlikely.

The case could be made if the person who made the referral post to a thread either knew or should have known the item was "stolen". The actual "crime" in Florida would be dealing in stolen property. The person who made the post, if that critical element of the crime could be proven..., could be charged with "Principle in the First Degree" which carries the same penalty as the dealing. In order to charge them with principle, a key factor to prove that element of the crime would be that they knew the seller, and knew that the item was stolen. Usually, they would be charged with accessory after the fact, which, in Florida, is a lesser included offense to Principal in the 1st Degree charge.

We've had this occur with eBay here on a couple occasions where the bad guy seller had a friend pose as the original owner, provided the bad guy seller with a fake receipt, etc. Simple "lookee here, this looks like a good deal", is usually not enough. We look at the totality of the circumstances when going after anyone other than the thief and/or the seller.

The caveat emptor factor that everyone should take into consideration is when considering items with missing, tampered or altered serial numbers. No matter how much someone wants something, how tempting the deal, etc., if the seller either does not have or does not provide the model & serial numbers (as in a photo...) stay away from the item.

How would you find out? If a serial number is available, you can contact your local law enforcement agency and ask them to check the serial number in the NCIC computer system. This assumes that the victim knew the number(s) and reported them at the time of the theft. For the buyer, this shows good faith and pretty much eliminates any criminal liability. But that does not eliminate civil liability. That depends on the state, and generally (in Florida) whether or not the victim filed an insurance claim.

What generally happens is.... Little Johnny steals a VCR; he sells it to Freddy. Johnny gets caught and tells the police that he sold it to Freddy. The police seize the VCR. Freddy is out money, but Freddy is also the victim, in Florida, of the "dealing in stolen property". Freddy goes to the State Attorney and files a victim compensation request.

When Johnny either pleads out, or is released from jail... a condition of his release and or probation (provided Freddy filed the claim) is paying back Freddy. If he fails to do so, Johnny can go back to jail... Freddy can also file a civil small claims action against Johnny ($35 filing fee), and eventually Johnny will either have to pay Freddy, or the court will do a "writ of repleven", seize something of Johnny's, auction the item and pay Freddy.

Herein lies the problem with the system.... It will usually take forever for Freddy to get his money.

In Florida, the only "protected" buyers are the pawnshops (provided that the police cannot prove the pawnshop knew that the item was stolen. In those cases, the pawnshops are required to hold the item (or the police can sign for it as evidence)until the case is disposed of in court, or they can turn the item back over to the victim who has the same responsibility to safeguard the item until the court disposes of the case. The bad part? The pawnshop is entitled to payment by the victim for what the pawnshop payed the bad guy. In that case, the victim still has to file a claim with the State Attorney.... Bad system, but the pawnshop lobby is very powerful in Florida.

If an insurance company paid a claim.... then the stolen property becomes the property of the insurance company and they are entitled to it after the case is resolved. 50% of police auctions are items for which insurance companies paid claims, but did not want the items after the court disposed of the case.

Things work in a similar fashion in most states.

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I never really thought about the risk of buying stuff off CL before and just last week I went to go purchase a DVD player from some guy I didn't know.  I got his address and it just so happened that he was located in the worst part of town (I didn't clue in).  I still went to his pad, and he had quite the system set up (Mac, B&W, Music Hall).  In fact, I was admiring and commenting on his racks (and racks) of gear and stacks of speakers.  They were all set up in his listening room quite nicely. 

I asked him to demonstrate that the DVD player worked and, well, it worked but he didn't know how to use it.  

The whole scene clicked then.  I told him I didn't want it and walked out (looking over my shoulder to make sure he wasn't coming at me with a knife or something).

I'll be asking quite a few more questions next time I want to purchase equipment from CL.  Beware.

-PB

great story.

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What got me started on this was...

I saw an add on Craigslist Indy for a high end stereo system for $175 obo. It was in a small town about 60 miles south of Indy. Killer price and the $ signs are swirling around my head.

I loaded up the kid, hit the ATM and headed south.

I got to his house and he had a house full of systems. These included high end speakers, amps, pre's, and tuners, 5 HDTV's hanging on the walls. Three of which were hanging in the basement.

Clue #1 was he was using the cheapest, thinnest speaker wire available. It looked like it came out of a Taiwan surround system worth less than $20.

We went to his basement where the advertised stuff was located. I asked for a demo before I shelled out any cash and he agreed but wasn't sure how to hook it up.

Nice guy, nice home, but.....Too much high end gear not to know how to hook up a preamp and cdp and using the cheapest speaker wire available.

Ok, time to get out of "Dodge" and hope I hadn't left any fingerprints anywhere. Northbound in a hurry making sure I wasn't speeding or had any "contraband" in my truck. Just kidding on the contraband thing. Kinda.

Now lately there's been a lot of media exposure to the issue and it's made me wonder if I had bought anything that might have belonged to someone other than the seller.

I do log all purchases and serial #s for my insurance and accountant since I run a second business with used and repaired/restored audio gear.

I've been "ripped off" myself and didn't like the feeling and wouldn't want to be part of someone's pain either.

It's not that I would want the worry about getting caught with something hot but the odds of that being legit were slim to none given the specifics. I do "look a gift horse in the mouth" and I'll always avoid a shady deal "like the clap".

And no I didn't report the "seller" and kept to my own business since I had no proof but mostly didn't want anything coming back to haunt me.

Harry

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Ok, time to get out of "Dodge" and hope I hadn't left any fingerprints anywhere. Northbound in a hurry making sure I wasn't speeding or had any "contraband" in my truck. Just kidding on the contraband thing. Kinda.

You sure thought about it!!!Wink

Well...Personally I'd rather reside on the side of caution than reside in lock up.

Having no knowledge of anything criminal I shall gain knowledge and experience from the TV set and shuts my mouth and lets my lawyer yak.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

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