HD Programing Audio Levels

[vondy]

I would like to see if anyone could help me with this. I'm new to the HD world. Got a "can't pass it up" deal on a 42" LG LCD so had my Dish Network switched over to HD and got a BlueRay player. It's now hard to stay away from the TV. Everything looks so good now.

Anyway. I noticed different channels, and even different programs/commercials broadcast different surround formats. Dolby Digital or Dolby Pro Logic 2. For the most part. The Dolby Digital comes in several decibels lower so I have to constantly turn the volume up and down. Even between the commercials and program. Now, at this moment I'm only running stereo. Two Heresys up front. Whenever the Dolby Digital is on I turn my AVR to Stereo or Direct to bypass the surround. Helps a little.

Am I missing anything here? Is there a way to bypass all the surround and just play stereo?

Dish Network HD DVR ViP722

Denon AVR-588

2 Heresy 1's

Running optical audio from the Dish receiver to the Denon receiver.

If anyone has any ideas Thanks!

[damonrpayne]

See if your AVR supports Dolby Volume.

If not, see about just setting "stereo" or "direct" on your AVR, but I don't know if that will help your volume levels.

[Eskimo1]

Upgrade your Dish receiver to a Vip722 HD DVR, and then you can just skip the commercials!

I know what you're saying though - the volume between the shows is annoying as hell!

[BerserkNitro]

I think it something to do with the broadcasting...Ive notice that to....When a commercial come on it will get lower or louder...and then i notice on my stereo it display -2 . And then when the movie comes back on it will say +4...Iam like WTF...lol

[JJkizak]

The AVS forum has a lot of discussions about this, it depends on the tv station broadcasting 2.1, 3.1, 5.1, Stereo, etc. It's going to be screwed up for a while until somebody who understands the problem and how to fix it takes command and puts the fear of god into the engineers.

JJK

[wuzzzer]

In your Dish Network's menu there should be an audio setup that will ask if you want to have the sound in stereo or surround. I don't know if selecting stereo will help your sound problem but at least the Dish Network box will be sending the correct audio signal to your receiver in line with your setup.

[jhw59]

My FIOS box has a setting for surround so I changed it from stereo. Good idea or should I set it back and leave it up to the receiver Yammy 663?

[IndyKlipschFan]

Now, at this moment I'm only running stereo. Two Heresys up front.

So your only using 2 speakers... Simple..set to stereo in your dish and pre amp or receiver.

When you get a third Heresy for your center and some surrounds... stereo out of dish...let your reciever do the decoding of sound formats..LATER!

Don't forget your sub too!

[HudsonValleyNoah]

It totally sux.

I set my HT AVR to a good sound level when receiving 5.1 (and playing 5.1 on my HT) and then a commercial comes on and blows me off the couch.

Now I mute the system when it threatens to play a commercial.

Are we going to start getting 5.1 on standard programming as of February?

[IndyKlipschFan]

You can always buy POS speakers that will not reflect anything at all... hehehehehehe

I know some channels off of my cable box are sent at different levels.. TNT always seem to boost the bass for instance.. If your watching sports...basketball in particular..that boom boom boom as they are bringing the ball up the court is annoying..LOL> Let alone the previews..

Make sure you have the compression turned off at the cable box? Maybe it is sending some pretty hot signals to you..You might experiment in those settings too?

People think that the TV stations turn up the volume on commercials.. not true.. They are recorded more hot.. but no one is standing by with a nob to boost it then go back to normal levels later... hahahahahahaha

You have to admit though.. When it is done right...It is awesome!!

I don't have the commercials big time louder in my set up. So check your set ups!

[artto]

I have the same problem with the loudness changing.

Normally I send the signal from the cable set top box (Motorola DCT6412) to my receiver (HK AVR130) via digital optical cable. I've noticed that if I switch the audio signal going to the reciever to analog (sent via stereo component interconnect cables) I don't have as many issue with commercial volume.

The audio signal during commercials is not supposed to be louder in decibels. I believe there are laws against them doing so. What they do instead is boost certain a frequency range (ie: midrange for voice) and then compress the hell out it so it "sounds louder". Very annoying indeed.

[JJkizak]

If you measure the difference with an SPL meter you will see changes as much as 25 db in volume.

JJK

[WMcD]

My guess is that it does not have much to to do with HD and Dolby. This is an issue across the board.

The programs and commercials on my primitive digital cable has the same issue, as did my primitive analog cable, as does OTA broadcasts.

The commericals are just goosed up with compression and loudness (bass boost).

It is an age-old gripe that FM broadcast stations and AM broadcast stations use the same techniques with ALL the program to make a given station seem louder as you search across the dial. Ya know, I'm pretty sure this was being done in the '60's with WABC-AM playing top 40's. We were all listening on 3-transistor radios with half dead carbon-zinc batteries, table radios, or the pushbutton radios in the car. Cousin Bruce Morrow and the rest of the D.J.s pounded out a heck of signal.)

This is not lost on pop music producers. The complaint with much pop music these days is that compression robs dynamics.

I wonder a bit . . but I recall that one Jefferson Airplane (or early Star Ship) album had a comment, "This record was made to be played loud." It could be that the recording engineer decided to not use compression and was asking the listeners to crank the volume and appreciate the dynamics.

I don't know that there is much to be done at the receiving end to even things out. I've glanced at descriptions of purported solutions but I think they are just adding a compressor. That way the non-commercials get compressed up to the level of compressed commercials.

Wm McD

[RockOn4Klipsch]

Doesn't look like anyone has really given any reason or explanation as to "WHY" this happens. I have always been irritated by this feature of movie viewing volume and commericial volumes.

What happens when there is a switch from digital programming or movie watching, to a commercial there is waht the broadcasting station call "DialogueNorm" and this is kept the same across all program material movie, comercials etc. So just like a radio station they try to keep the dB output equalat any given time, the commercial developers and writers of commercials know this so what happens is that jack up the master recording volume so when the broadcasting station runs the ad it seems as if you turned your tv up anywhere from 5 - 20 dB.

If you can imagine a scale or meter from 0 dB - 114dB and dialogue usually happen right in the middle at say about 57 - 60 dB. Quiet things like windblowing happen at the lower end of the scale and explosions on the high end. So the commercial people jack the dialogue up to the MAX within that scale and when it output from the broadcast station you have an EXPLOSION of dialogue.

Some recievers like the Onkyo I have try to take this into account, as another member noted on his reciever it would say things like +4 dB DialNorm or -2 dB DialNorm, this is the reciever trying to compensate for the increase in dB output by the broadcast station. The reciever doesn't usually quiet it down enough. This is something that will probably not be changed as everyone would have to use Dolby like standards in their dynamic range in order to have something that was normal or standard across the board. Hopefully this helps and makes sense.

I just have a - 20dB when muting and MUTE it when commercials come on.

[laager]

I have the same problem. Broadcast 5.1 needs to be cranked up for full effect and then an advertisement comes on and blasts the room to hell and back.

I believe the problem is quite simple and nothing you can do will fix it.

The problem is this: advertisements are being played at a volume in accordance with industry code and/or legislation. Those codes and statutes generally specify something along the lines of this: advertisments must be no louder than the loudest part of the preceding broadcast. So, imagine that explosion scene or that scary moment. The peak at that point may be 20 - 25dB higher than the median volume in the rest of the film, i.e. dialogue scenes. However, the break to commercial is rarely during a high volume moment. It's usually when it's quiet. That can also mean the break occurs when the volume level is below the median level of the film.

When the advertisement comes on you receive the volume at that peak broadcast level. There may also be compression and other factors at play to increase the impact.

In short, until there is a change in codes/legislation to bring down the volume of advertisments to, say, median broadcast level you are stuck. I imagine there would be very active (and effective) opposition from broadcast lobby groups to such a proposal as the revenue stream is at stake.

[artto]

Doesn't look like anyone has really given any reason or explanation as to "WHY" this happens.

Actually, we were provided with a variety of explaination as to "WHY".

The problem is a solution. The only "solution" as I see it, for right now (until something better comes along) is to limit the power going to the speakers. This would require the use of a compressor/limiter on each of the reciever/power amp outputs. The problem here is that these are usually line level devices, not something between the speaker and the power output to them. Anyone know of one?

The other option would require the user to set "limit levels" at the line level in the reciever/control center with some sort of integrated device that can interprete all the various types of processed signals that we have available today.

And then there are these, I haven't tried it yet.

http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/146/strfnbr/2

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3845