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Your numbers are off if using "twice as loud". 1W to 2W is a 3 dB increase and 2W to 4W, 4 to 8, 8 to 16, and so on 3 dBs each time you double a noticeable difference. So if actually using 1W AVERAGE I would want 8W - 16W for 9 - 12 dBs above average (after a year or two I would need 500W minimum to compensate for hearing loss). 1W to 10W to 100W to 1,000W is actually what it takes to be twice as loud (10 dBs). These numbers show how ridiculous it can get chasing wattage. Didn't someone say something about needing a good 5W amplifier or is that just one of those stories? Of course today a good 5W amplifier can be 20W or 50W or 100W or........

I’m sure Volkswagen AG products can also use Klipsch cardboard over their rear windows when necessary.

Heresy @ 96 db would be fine with a low power SET in a small room with moderate listening levels. For movies or head banging, probably not. But for lascalas and khorns, high power is wasted on them. And unfortunately, unless you are willing to break the bank on an amp, as the power goes up the quality usually goes in the other direction. It's much easier and less cost prohibitive to build a high quality low power amp. And it's with low power that these extremely high efficiency speakers shine, IMHO.

104 db/ meter , gives us reasonable protection against clipping . 96 db as in the Heresy II , much less so , particularly as the room gets bigger and the listening distance increases . It’s really about how loud a guy wants to go . I like to have the capability to go extreme once in a while. It would seem ridiculous to me if I couldn’t fully play my Klipschorn / Lascala front stage to its full potential , maybe I’m missing something here , or maybe not 🤓

I do hear what your saying and understand about headroom, peaks vs. continuous, and clipping. All good points. All correct within context. When I'm using the example of an 8 wpc amplifier, my context includes a Klipsch Forte III with 99 dB effeciency. That 99 dB is LOUD by pretty much any standard...loud enough to damage your ears with extended exposure. So, let's say there is a peak in the source material that needs to be twice as loud. That means the amp has to deliver a whopping 2 watts to the speaker. Twice as loud again, 4 watts. Twice as loud again, 8 watts. Now we have to worry about clipping, but we are at 111 dB. And, unless I'm mistaken, an amplifier that can deliver 100 watts will still only deliver 8 watts to achieve that 111 dB. Of course, if we were driving a speaker with 80 dB efficiency, it would be an entirely different context and way more power would be required. Still, how loud the speakers can get is not really the question. Do those additional unused watts (thanks @82 Cornwalls) contribute anything to the overall quality of the sound, or does the output capability strictly affect volume. I'm leaning to the idea that it is only SPL and other factors like current, topology, etc. are responsible for other aspects of the overall "sound".

Hope you’re joking about the 1972 part.

Low power will clip earlier when paired with the wrong loudspeaker. With 104 db speakers you will never clip an 8 watt amp at any level you could withstand for any amount of time. It's all about pairing the right amplifier with the right speaker. If you don't get that part right, all bets are off.

If the amplifier gets the job done with a little to spare and sounds better to the user..... I use less than 1/10 of a watt average with CW 1s in the living room and less than 1/2 of a watt in my more nearfield system in my spare bedroom with 90 dB speakers. Yes I have heard music played at high levels on a great system and like a couple of things about it (not for long though), but overall I enjoy music so much more at lower levels.

The 15 & the 16 Accords could start with that physical key next to the ignition, the 15 had a place to insert it. This is an 18 Acura RDX, fob battery must be totally dead, old fashioned key will only unlock and lock the doors to how they're set up. Duracell was only a few months old, not keeping it near the wifi in the BR at night anymore. Sure my neighbor would have run me the 4 miles to the crossroads if I asked. Not sure kroger has that cr2032 battery though. I have what I need here now. I've been going 10 miles further and saving almost 15% at the foodlion. More time, less $. NObody has good beef around here so that doesn't gauge my loyalties anymore. I see cows everywhere though, thinking deep freezer in my future! Will ask questions when I'm ready with that!

No criticism to anyone else’s setup , I’m sure your system sounds awesome . Low watt amps will clip earlier, that’s just the math . I like power , always have , in cars , motorcycles etc. Can’t an amplifier be excellent ,and powerful ? I agree that if we’re talking strictly music , then power isn’t as big an issue ,but I also believe that some people take the low power idea a little too far , and that the power of an amplifier is an important consideration.

I have two amplifiers. One is 8 wpc (300B) and the other is a whopping 15 wpc (EL84). Neither one comes close to clipping in my system when cranking any music I desire. A lot of this is because of well designed power supplies. Not all flea watt amps are created equal. Once you hear one with some balls, you'll understand. I don't give two s&*ts about home theater. Not in my room.

My system is integrated , multi channel music / movie . Yea , most of the time a few watts are sufficient. But I like to step on the gas once in a while , clear the carbon out of the horns , show my quests what a high powered system can do , and send a shiver down their spine while I’m at it . Most people don’t have a clue what a great movie scene can sound like , but it takes power efficiency and great subwoofer capabilities to get the job done ,weak amps aren’t for me , but to each his own 🤓

Sorry about the bad luck, glad Greg was able to fix it. I've been curious about the 1.5t MK II- love that amp stock. Rumor has it Greg is working on a MK-II for Sunfire amps as well.

plus one on the 1 watt, or the right few watts. 99.9% of the time I (we on here) only need, want, and use a watt or less. Most are looking for better sound, not (only) louder.

Klf 10 sound is way off, due to a 8uf ground cap , put it at 15 with a 3ohm resistor thank me later , mine were from 1972 lol

Updating the story of this Sunfire Cinema Grand Amp. Just in case anyone needs one of these units repaired, and would like a solid repair/refurb service recommendation. You will be well advised to check out Nelionaudio.com Greg is aces. Once back in regular use, the amp performed flawlessly for months. Long story shortened; the electrical transformer that feeds our house, shorted out due to vines growing up the pole, and into the wiring. Only one piece of equipment in the house was damaged during the rather spectacular “event”. Yep, you guessed it. So back it went, to Greg at Nelion audio, after an extensive repair, at a more than fair cost, it’s once again back in service, and as good as new. I’ve recently sent my Carver M-1.0T to them for refurbishment & upgrade to their M-1.0T mkII opt002 specs, which ups the power from 200 watts to 460, and claims to silence the power-on, “thump” that these amps are known for. They quickly performed the work, and returned the amp. I’ve not had the chance to get it back into the family room system, but my expectations are high. I’ll follow up once I’ve put everything back in place.

As long as it’s a good working K-55m you wouldn’t tell a difference.

Low wattage amps are enough power for a lot of Klipsch users due the the high sensitivity of the speaker and size. It is like a sports car, just because it can most people won't be running their system that hard toward clipping. With room gain of easy 10 db, there is some free headroom. .

What vehicle? I know in my Jeep if the fob battery dies you just press the Start/Stop button with the fob to start it. In some vehicles with a Start/Stop button if you pop the button out you can insert the fob and turn it to start the car.

I used to have that Combo Perhaps we should discuss. 🙂

Unused power is just that, unused, no magic pixie dust in it. I can say without hesitation 8 watts is plenty of power for me and clipping is not a problem. Much more power has been tried and found not to be needed at my less than live concert listening levels. More power to you if that's your desire, but I'm not going to tell someone else they need more power and that it's going to transform their system. If they are happy with what they have and hear no signs of clipping all is good, no sense in losing sleep. Many have gone down in quantity and up in quality and experienced worthwhile improvements.

Or a V a g

Ok tweeter diaphragms replaced with a Crites kit! Sounding good! Now I need to replace one K-55m, the question is do I get a pair of Crites kits, or do I hunt down a single working K-55m? Is it bad practice to get them individually like that? Like a chance of some imbalance?

I did scroll my Dave1291 but have to figure out how to get into my old account. I'm pretty sure I have it but not really positive. Think we exchanged them when I went out to Phoenix to see the youngest. That means nothing since I didn't have time to head south so we never talked. I dunno but I hope his ears are burnin! Survived the tornado damage. Did some nosin w/the rest of the town this evening and there was quite a bit more damage than I thought. Made the CBS evening news tonight and the Columbus CBS affiliate, which suprised me. There were 3 EF1's and two EF0's in Ohio. This one was one of the EF 1's. The other two EF 1's were up around Cleveland. The EF 0's down in Southern Ohio. Drove by my old place, which was a 2 story double brick built in 1917. I loved that house. Rock solid, hot water heat and quarter-sawn oak with all the old pocket doors and oak cabinets in the kitchen. The veneer was absolutely beautiful. No cracks and done the right way. Had a maple in the back yard and planted some blue spruce on the side to block some of the noise & view from a school across the street. They're prolly a good 30' tall now cause the guy never topped them out. End result? Two are on a major lean being held up by some power lines. They're gonna have to go. Every lil out building ppl had was history along with a few unattached garages and trees down everywhere. Then the house pic I posted. The 2 story building downtown next to Wendys had no roof along with 4-5 other buildings downtown. Then it went right across into the residential side of older homes close by w/more damage.eventually headed outta town and lifted up. Crazy for sure.

Exactly!