Tom Adams
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Ok - I'm lost........
What is winterizing???
Tom
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And then there's this thing called "Lean" manufacturing that applies to everybody at Toyota to the extent that a worker is required every week to submit at least one idea to make the manufacturing process leaner. Don't make submittals and your performance based pay suffers.
The name for this is "giving more for less." It has a long history. To understand it, you have to compare it to "giving less for more," which is another practice with a very long history. First, look at "giving less for more" ("GLM" for short) because it is the easiest to understand.
GLM
This is the basic profit motive behind all free enterprise. You try to find the highest or best price someone will pay, for the least amount of content possible. This will assure maximum profit, and maximize your return on investment. If a 3 oz. candy bar will sell for 99-cents, you soon try to see if a 2-1/2 oz bar can sell for 99-cents. That's how people get rich - manipulating the difference between what you GIVE and what you GET. No businessman ever got rich by giving more than he was getting back. Example 2. When Mr. Smith goes into his management to negotiate his new compensation package, he asks for a lot MORE salary, a lot MORE benefits like better healthcare, country club membership, and a leased car. He also asks for MORE staff to help him with his work (so he can do less), and he asks for more vacation which means LESS hours worked. He is, in short, negotiating the difference to "get more and give less." This maximizes his "profit on labor" if you will. Using this technique of GLM, executives end up with $200M annual pay packages. It's very American and very patriotic!
GML
This is the opposite. In this practice, you are asked to "give more and get less." This is the standard historical model for squeezing down working class labor. This is also very American and patriotic - even though it's the opposite of what the other fellow is doing to get rich! In Toyota's case, the workers are being asked to gradually eliminate their own jobs or suffer pay penalties. This persistent downward pressure on pay and benefits and time worked is the classic "dig your own grave" strategy used by the mafia. The bad guy is "trunked" and taken to the woods. They throw him the shovel and ask him to start digging. He will dig his own grave. (He is REALLY giving more and getting less!) For labor classes this GML strategy of screwing yourself is called "the work ethic." For executive labor, it would just be called "stupid."
Let's summarize. When management labor, or the business itself, attempts to Give Less and Get More, it is American and patriotic and aggressive and smart and prudent and necessary and valiant and wise. When line workers attempt to Give Less and Get More it is communistic, socialistic, unpatriotic, anti-free market, slovenly, unethical, lazy, crooked, immoral and disgusting. Got it.Is there anybody here that has either the horsepower or the connections to call the various heads of state of the major industrialized nations and let them know that if they would just call or write or even pay a visit to Mark Deneen that all our problems would be solved? Does the Office of the President Elect have a contact number??
Sheesh.......here I go again violating Tom's 1st Law.
Mark.....where have you lived or are living or whatever that you come to these wild-*** thoughts/theories/I-don't-know-whats? Seriously, I know of no other on here that leans so heavily towards almost paranoia or conspiracy-est type perspectives. I'm not trying to be rude or a jerk and I apologize if this sounds like name calling, but I just don't get you sometimes. I mean, I read the things you write (and quite often I have to read it twice 'cause, as you know.....I'm an Engineer) and I wonder just what the hell??? Do he & I live in different worlds??
Here's my world Mark.......
I work for a Corporation that builds those jets the Execs went to Washington in (actually, those were rather older models). In my 23 years here, I've done rather well for myself and I make a very comfortable wage. Shoot - some days I can't believe they pay me what they do and believe me I'm nothing special.
I work with people who have only a high school education that make very good money and are working in a technical capacity that would normally require a college degree. And that's because they were given an opportunity. Those folks are nothing special either - they just worked hard and were (are) rewarded rather well.
I have friends in the production shop who, with some overtime, make more per year than A LOT of Engineers. Some years back, we sent a big chunk of our detail and machine parts manufacturing down to Mexico when we opened a plant down there. Employment here went UP! This week's job postings were the lowest in the last 8 months with only 50+ jobs. Most weeks, the list is as long as your arm.
In the last 10 years my company has done a market adjustment of wages 3 times in just about every area of the company in order to retain employees and stay competitive. And I know for a fact, that we're a top paying aircraft company in many areas. We have a $30B+ backlog and our 3Q sales were up over a year ago. We're paying bonuses to employees for referals for qualified applicants. We're spending $800M in expansion projects just in Savannah only. We'll hire probably another 800 folks here and another 300 in Mexico and I'm not sure however many at our other service centers around the world that are also expanding.
Our employees pledged $1M to United Way here and the company matched that. We get bonuses twice a year. We just started down the Lean path and every area that has undergone a Lean initiative has not seen a decrease in employees. And I would assert to you that it's through our Lean initiatives that we can pay for the $800M expansion programs and the funding of our R&D. We're also pretty lean in our management structure and I'm sure that helps.
Maybe we're the exception and not the rule and I'll concede that. But I can tell you that in the 23 years I've been here there has been at least 4 attempts to Unionize. The last time came when this company was at its lowest in terms of sales and employment. And the workers rejected it in LARGE numbers.
So I'm not sure what world you live in. But in my world, I've not seen the picture you try to paint with your prose of some poor down-trotten factory worker being stepped on by Execs on their way to financial bliss (my words not yours). Quite the contrary, our workers have shared rather well in the success of this company. We live in the nicer neighborhoods, drive the nicer cars, and live in the nicer homes. And those who've chosen to stay closer to their family roots have made significant contributions to their immediate & extended families, their neighborhoods, their church, and the community.
So I think we get it Mark. We get the fact that we're a team and management is not out to get us. We get that sending work - not jobs - to Mexico isn't gonna affect us negatively. We get that a Lean initiative will free us from doing non-productive things and allow us to focus more attention on things we need to spend more time on to get right. We get the fact that a $14M software implimentation has allowed us to decrease cycle time in order to speed up production and decrease overtime so that Steve & his wife can attend their kids' softball & soccer games and not be at work so much.
Yeah Mark.....I think I got it. It's too bad you can't see it.
Tom
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Though the idea is noble, you're missing one itsy-bitsy important fact.........
IT'S MY D*AMN TAX PAYER MONEY BEING SPENT!!!!!!!!!!
Though a multitude of issues could be cited as reasons for why the Big 3 are where they are, I'll give you a couple to chew on.
I've read that at factories like Honda and Toyota, it's not uncommon for a Big 3 worker to come in for an interview, see what it's like to work at Honda or BMW or Toyota and decide NOT to apply. Why? Because Honda employees WORK.
And then there's this thing called "Lean" manufacturing that applies to everybody at Toyota to the extent that a worker is required every week to submit at least one idea to make the manufacturing process leaner. Don't make submittals and your performance based pay suffers. At the Big 3, the Unions actually fight against these type initiatives. Case in point was the creation of those job banks as a concession so the UAW would agree to allow productivity enhancements/initiatives by the Company. Simply amazing.......
Personally, I'm in favor of letting them file for bankruptcy and making them re-organize themselves into a modern company capable of competing or just go away. It's survival of the fittess. And GM could start with getting rid of all car lines and just become GM producing a line of cars and trucks. Why does there need to be basically the same car being built by Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Buick????
Tom
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Yeah......I too am amazed at how fast all that went up. Shoot - my garage/workshop is almost half that size, I started on it in February of this year, and it's no further along than Michael's. Maybe I should get laid off so I have time to finish my project up!! [
] []BTW Michael.......a sheetrock jack????? You're a p*ssy. LOL..........
Seriously.....wish I could've found one of those to rent. Would've saved an awful lot of aggravation and sore muscles.
Tom
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Just wondering if something like this was made available to you:
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm
[6]
Tom
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Tom, it's not a miter saw stand, but they are really handy and I bought a couple at Lowe's and they were only $12 each, they look exactly like the red one in this link, couldn't find on the Lowe's site?
Yep.....I've seen those at Lowe's and Home Depot. I think Harbor Frieght Tools (gawd I love wandering around in that place) has them too.
Not sure I'll get it, but I saw this at Sears and it was on sale for $190.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00922023000P
Tom
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Next up on the world famous Bonneville Salt Flats....
That's interesting that the speed record for the Lakester class is higher than the streamliner class. OTOH, I've seen that same thing with motorcycles that are partially faired versus ones with full fairings.
As for the Hossfly.....I saw one of those things in action at Myrtle Beach Bike Week a few months ago. The guy riding it never got into the throttle hard, but he'd goose it pretty good from time-to-time and he didn't seem to be outta control with it which surprised the heck out of us. Naturally, that sucka was LOUD!
It would make for a neat pit bike if the price wasn't so high.
Tom
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Thanks for askin'!
I got the Dewalt DW716. It's a 12-inch double compound, non-slider, that can cut a 2X10. I wanted a non-slider because they're really more stable than the sliders, and I wanted a real precise saw. I picked up a Forrest Chopmaster blade (locally, on Craigslist) for use with furniture and stain-grade trim. It's pretty light, too. At least it's lighter than my 15-inch Hitachi!
I bought it on Amazon. They had it for $377, with a Dewalt tool of your choice (4 choices). I chose the LED light accessory. It casts a shadow on the work, indicating where the kerf is. Pretty neat!
(sigh......) Maybe one day my lowly el-cheapo 10" compound miter saw will grow up to a DW716.
I've been doing more trim work projects lately and a 10" saw is a PITA due to the cutting width limitation. And I'd love to have one of those miter saw stands with the support extensions. Sheesh......you should see the jerry-rigged contraptions I come up with.
Something I've noticed that you don't see much anymore is radial arm saws. Wonder why??
Tom
Well fini.....my 10" miter saw did grow up. Yessireebob......Santa came early this year courtesy of a Home Depot sale and a wife that got worn down by a husband whining. LOL
BUT......I didn't buy the DW716 which is what I originally wanted. Instead, I got this Rigid Tool saw instead.
Basically it looks like they matched DeWalt feature-for-feature. The buying decision came down to the sale price of $269 (over $100 cheaper than the DW716) and the fact that it has a lifetime warranty.
Now to wear the wife down on that Ryobi miter saw stand.
Tom
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More proof that the enemy is our own government.
http://finance.yahoo.com/focus-retirement/article/106022/
Sadly.....no one is listening or cares. Show me one instance where any politician talks about their compensation and uses the word "fair" in the same sentence. I wonder how the parents of small children of this country feel knowing that when their child starts working 18 years from now it will be for the good of the state while the government determines what you get to keep.
Tom
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Hi Tom--
Well dang. I went to the site and tried every way possible to "pose a question" but I could not find a single button or form to complete to ask the question. I must be missing something on that site? There are canned questions and answers, but I find no way to ask my (rather long) question. I have no objection whatsoever to asking the experts my questions. However, my question does require some nuance and detail to make clear. It's not as simple as "How come drugs are not exempt?" And so on. I didn't see any similar long-form questions.
I guess any tax system anyone wants to invent can be deployed and some sort of results will follow. And, eventually, every system will adapt to that policy and whatever it yields is what the new reality is. Overall, there is no possible way a tax sytem can serve the idea of fairness, any more than war can serve the idea of fairness. Anyone becoming dead will certainly have a legitimate claim of unfairness. So, if its not fair, it is what? That's the real question to search out. What replaces "fair"? I say the answer to that is "interests." Specific interests compete for advantage.
The easiest example of this is the issue between taxing capital gains, versus taxing wages. You don't have to go deep to see whose interests are at stake on each side of that. Wage earners whose majority income is wages must compete against investors whose majority income is capital gain. Someone is going to pay for the war, the FBI, the FDA, the NAS, congressional salaries, pork and so on - - someone has to pay. Taxation is like squeezing a balloon - - less air here means more air at the other end. There's no question that those who want zero cap gains tax have a huge lobbying effort (bribery) to make that happen. If they do, it squeezes wage earners into "eventually" higher taxes - one way or the other. If they simply increase the deficit, then you pay later through inflation. One way or the other it is a net zero game - you pay, or they pay - it's just that simple. Now, all that is just to say that the FairTax folks represent certain "interests" - and I would never assume those interests are mine, until I examine the effects, which I have tried to show in various posts. There ought to be no doubt that the highest incomes will be paying a vanishingly low percentage of the total tax, and the very lowest incomes will be paying the highest. Since I am not in the former group, my interests are very clear.
Sorry for the long windedness.
Sorry Mark for being away from this thread - actually......I've been away from the forum for some days now. And there's no need for apologizing for being long-winded, I appreciate you being interested enough to post your thoughts. So.......where were we.......
I went to the FairTax website and found the following that would aid you in posing your questions. The first link is to the folks in your state that are part of the FairTax organization. You'll find both email and phone number contact info. The second link has an email address to contact the national organization directly. You can probably skip that one since I took your post questions/comments and sent it off to them for an answer. I also sent them a link to this Klipsch thread so they can understand the context in which your posts were made and I urged them to read the entire thread. Hopefully they'll do that.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=grassroots_leader_CA
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_contact
Tom
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Good call on the recessed lighting with the lumber moving and all. Too bad I already have the ceiling insulated and drywalled.
Funny story (or not so funny) about recessed lighting. when we had out house built it was $190 for every recessed light we wanted. You cannot put them in nearly as easily after the fact and who wants to cut up their ceiling the day after you move in...so we bit the bullet and paid for what was needed/wanted. 12-15 IIRC. When I did the basement myslef and in turn my theater I got a contractor pack of 10 or 12 and they worked out to be about $7 each with the trim and all. I know the builder needs to make a buck, but that is some crazy mark up when you figure he probably gets a better price break then I did. Crazy!
Well.....like I said, the BIGGEST reason I went recessed was cost. C'mon.....(6) IC rated cans for $12??? That's crazy cheap. Besides, even though flourescent gives off decent light, Murphy's Law states that where you need light the most, you will not have it - NO MATTER HOW MANY FL FIXTURES YOU HAVE!! LOL...........
Oh....and the contractor that built my last house wanted $50/can. Not as bad as what you got nailed for, but still quite a mark-up.
Tom
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sigh................
And then there's the lowly digital amp. Sadly destined to be an orphan with no one either hating on them or defending them.
Tom
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Sounds like the wave of the future. Hope nobody or nothing inadvertently "jams" the signal.... some other aircraft with some weird radar.... How safe is the wireless signal from spurious RF interference; or is there a back-up system?
There will be back-up (redundancy) I am sure just as there is with the current avionics system. Typically we have a triple redundancy system. As for RF, the aircraft's avionics goes through what we call HIRF (High Intensity Radiated Fields) testing and is designed to be sheilded from the effects of HIRF. This was started some years back when our aircraft were being routinely flown in and near certain countries in the middle east with the likelyhood of them being "lit-up" by ground based radar systems of the anti-aricraft variety (if ya know what I mean). To date, I've not heard of any systems failure due to HIRF. However......the aircraft has plenty of redundancy in both flight controls, avionics, etc. I hear they even carry a bucket in case the toilet fails. LOL.......
Tom
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NTSB and FAA will never allow it.
These and other cool things we're developing are being done with the direct purpose of getting NTSB and FAA and JAA and other certification approvals. Believe me, we wouldn't be investing the moola just to develop non-useful technology.
Tom
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Great idea, Tom. You can also refer to the photos when you're trying to find that one missing gym sock...Oh.....BTW, I know you're taking photos to show us, but I've found that photos of all walls BEFORE the inside wall coverings are in place can come in handy later - especially when you're trying to remember where you actually ran wiring or a cable or whatever.
Hope this helps.
Tom
Or when you tell the builder that the light fixture for just outside the sliding glass door is missing. And he says it's not there probably because no electrical was pulled to that location. And you say, well that's not what this photo I took of that location shows. And he says, oh he!!.....and the stucco has been applied and is finished. And you say, yeah....and there's now a live wire in that wall and too bad for the stucco.
Not that I would know anything about a situation like that.
Tom
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Yes Rich, I'm checking Polystyrene (cooler material) vs Polyurethane -denser and close cell and also the metal gauge of various door designs.
Track lighting with FL lamp is going to be the way I go with lighting. Inexpensive, energy-efficient, and very flexible. Luckily I bought out a family furniture store and have about 8 sticks of 10-12 foot track and probably 30 fixtures, that should just about do the main part of the workshop. Cheap FL fixtures will be ok in the garage side.
If that's the case why the he!! did you ask us for lighting suggestions????????????
Personally, I went with recessed 6" cans to light the bulk of my workshop/garage and will use dedicated task lighting where & as needed. My reason for the cans were: a) I now have no ceiling fixtures/bulbs that can be whacked by the stray 2x4 swung around while not paying attention and
I got a box of (6) cans for $12 plus another $10 for the trim rings. That's a far cry from $60+ for ONE four foot flourescent fixture.Tom
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In response to Carver, I think it had more to do with the amp and the inefficient speakers of the day as well. <snip> With Klipsch, a lot less obviously!
Huh???? There were no efficient speakers when Carver did his experiment? If memory serves me, the Khorn was around almost before Carver was born!
Tom
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Hey Michael -
Just a thought I had when you mentioned that opening for an A/C unit. You won't need that opening if you were to opt for one of these Mr. Slim units from Mitsubishi: http://www.mrslim.com/
I had one of these units in the HT room of my last house and it did a super job of cooling and is much more efficient than a window type unit. And because of its design there only needs to be (2) penetration holes for the inside unit - the suction & return coolant lines. Cost-wise, they're pretty close to a window unit. However, you'll make that cost up & more due to increased efficiency.
Oh.....BTW, I know you're taking photos to show us, but I've found that photos of all walls BEFORE the inside wall coverings are in place can come in handy later - especially when you're trying to remember where you actually ran wiring or a cable or whatever.
Hope this helps.
Tom
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Wow.....I'm so darn proud of myself I almost can't stand it. I finally started a thread that's gone past 3 pages! Can you believe it?? And to think the point of the thread was to (mostly) vent about our IFG and how out of control/touch they are and wondering out loud what has to happen in the USofA before folks start saying they ain't gonna take it anymore. Sadly.....alas....(sigh)......it's evloved into a wonderful discussion about taxes frought with passion, opinion, a few facts, conjecture, and even some quotes from a dead President (no disrespect intended of JFK).
Mark - my perception of you (and I'm being sincere here) is that you are a very intelligent & insightful person who prides himself on getting your facts straight and although you "sweat the details", you don't lose sight of the bigger picture.
All of which you have posted sounds very plausible and as much as I would like to be able to rebutt, I have to concede that I can't. And to be honest, there's this part of me that says, "what if Mark is right and all that you've read and everything that the FairTax.org folks have said is wrong". But then my brain also says, "So how is it that the FairTax concept was concieved by folks from all walks of life and from all spectrums of academia and has been studied by economists from here & abroad, yet they never considered those arguments Mark has put forth??"
So at the risk of sounding combative or whatever, I will say this again......the answer to your very good question(s) will not be found here. If my perception of you is accurate, you will post your question(s) and/or arguments here: http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_ask_expertAdditionally, you might even do some research here: http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_research
Honestly.....the scientist in me wants proof that what you are saying is the truth just as I want to know if what the FairTax folks say is the truth. Because as compelling as your arguments are, I'm not completely sold. So my brain says, the FairTax folks need to respond and let the chips fall where they may. Would you not agree?
OTOH.....if you don't or aren't willing to ask the FairTax folks, would you mind me cutting and pasting your post comments into a query for the FairTax folks??
Tom
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From our company newsletter......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
FLY-BY-WIRELESS AIRCRAFT CONTROL SYSTEM DEMONSTRATED:
Gulfstream has successfully demonstrated aircraft control using
"Fly-By-Wireless" technology. This historic flight, which took place
on Sept. 18, is the first known application of wireless signaling for a
primary flight-control surface in a civilian or military aircraft. During a
two-hour flight over Savannah, four distinct signal types transferred
input from the pilot to the lateral controls on the GV test aircraft. A
mechanical system controlled the ailerons; a Fly-By-Wire system
manipulated the outboard spoilers; the Fly-By-Wireless system
handled the mid-spoilers; and a fiber-optic Fly-By-Light system moved
the inboard spoilers. All four systems worked simultaneously during
the flight. This allowed Gulfstream to compare the performance of the
Fly-By-Wireless system to that offered by the three other control
systems. Pilots noted consistent handling characteristics regardless
of the actuation-control technology. "After developing the Fly-By-Wire
system, the next goal for Gulfstream was to reduce the complexity and
weight of that system without sacrificing safety or reliability," said Pres
Henne, senior vice president, programs, engineering and test. "This
Fly-By-Wireless flight proved we achieved that goal. There was no
difference in signal quality or strength among Fly-By-Wireless,
Fly-By-Light or Fly-By-Wire. That benefit, combined with the
streamlined profile of Fly-By-Wireless, makes it a potential backup for
other flight-control systems." The Fly-By-Wireless control system was
developed by Gulfstream and Invocon, a systems-engineering firm near
Houston. It offers an additional channel of communication for redundancy,
which increases system safety. Gulfstream is reviewing the benefits of
wireless technology for applications beyond backup flight control. This
is the second time in 2008 that Gulfstream has successfully tested a new
way of delivering input from the pilot to a flight-control surface. In March,
the company tested a fiber-optic Fly-By-Light system during a 75-minute
flight over Savannah.
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Mark -
I'm sorry if my explanation wasn't what you were wanting to hear or wasn't good enough or whatever. I'm just an egg-head engineer and obviously not as smart as you financial or statistical types. I did the best I could with what I have and I never professed to be a FairTax guru. So......
At the risk of sounding like a wise guy, I only have this to offer. Since you seem to have some very good points and seem to be sincerely interested, maybe your answer lies not here, but should be posed to the FairTax writers/creators/whatever. Honestly, I'd be interested in how they respond to your arguments.
Again, sorry.
Tom
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Mark – I’ll try to make this as brief as possible only because the actual answer can be rather complicated.
First though, the FairTax book was principally written by one of the co-authors of HR25 and that being Congressman Linder. Neal Bootz’s involvement was to aid in the writing of the book and if you were to read the book and not know, you would not draw a relationship between Neals’ writing and his talk show. Personally, I’m not 100% in lockstep with Neal, however I doubt you or I have the ability to call him a racist just because he pops-off about someone. Sadly, the word racist gets flung around way too much. If I don’t like someone and they just happen to be black or Asian or Hispanic doesn’t automatically make me a racist. Yet that’s where this moniker has been reduced to. Anyhow……
HR25 isn’t some half-baked concept derived by folks with little to no knowledge of economics. If you were to read the list of people that contributed to the concept, I think you’d realize that HR25 appeals to an incredible broad range of folks not just from the U.S., but from other countries around the world. BTW – as is pointed out in the FairTax book, the U.S. is almost the last major country in the world to have a progressive tax system. HR25 was derived after 5+ years of research at a cost of several million dollars and a lot of that effort was on folks’ own dime. Every penny of profit from the FairTax book and the follow-up book “FairTax: The Truth: Answering the Critics” has gone back to fund the FairTax initiative. I’m sure the cynics will say otherwise, but I chose to believe that folks don’t volunteer their time or give up their money unless they believe in their heart that they are fighting the good fight. Sorry for the tangent……
In simple terms, because HR25 eliminates all federal taxes – and I mean ALL – the price of a good or service will go down. Why? Well, it’s possible that when the taxes go away, Bob decides to keep his price at $10 in order to really make a killing on his widget that only costs him $5 to make. Problem is, ACME decides that a 25% profit margin on their widgets will allow them to corner the market and run Bob outta business. So, Bob responds to market pressure & competition and lowers his costs. This is an incredibly over simplification so don’t shoot me.
Now, the FairTax says that out of the cost for those goods & services identified in HR25, 23% will be sent to the Feds. Where did 23% come from? Well, that again gets a bit complicated, but in essence that number was arrived at with the goal in mind of making the income to Uncle Sam being revenue neutral once all federal income taxes were eliminated. If memory serves me, just about everyone who’s studied the issue of embedded taxes has concluded that some where around 38% to 45% of the price of a good or service goes to cover all the embedded taxes on that product. These embedded taxes go away under HR25 and the cost of the product therefore comes down.
Let me also point out that HR25 will prebate each month to every household an amount to cover the FairTax portion in basic necessities of life products. This prebate is based on a formula that I won’t go into here for I’d be typing all day and my boss would get pissed.
Another thing I’d like to mention is that every year, we have trillions of dollars going overseas in either investments or jobs and there is little dispute that it’s because other nations have tax laws more favorable than the U.S. Eliminate the Federal Income tax and what do you think would happen?
And consider this….the current U.S. tax code is over 64,000 pages and compliance with that code costs tax payers, individuals & companies, thousand of hours and billions of dollars every year. How much more productive would companies be if that cost could eliminated? And what about the cost of the products?
And what about the concept that what you make is yours? It doesn’t belong to your neighbor. It doesn’t belong to your Mom & Dad who put you through college (well….I guess you could make an argument for that LOL…). And it darn sure doesn’t belong to the Government. So why shouldn’t we be allowed to keep 100% of what we earn and the Government derive its income off what we spend? Is that concept too radical for folks to wrap their heads around? He!!, HR25 might just foster in a new era where folks actually start saving their money!
Again, I am trying to give you a simple answer to a rather complicated question. My hope is that from what I know of you, that you will educate yourself and then pontificate to your hearts content. I was skeptical at first, but I read and did some research and I’ve concluded on my own that HR25 is the shot in the arm this country needs. And one of the best parts is that they left politics out of it and did what you & do in our daily lives – we solve problems based on fact and data.
I hope I’ve helped. If not, send me your mailing address and I’ll send you a copy of the FairTax book. [
]Tom
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Good lord Mark.....gimme a break. I just logged on today. I'm up to my you-know-what! It's Monday you know. LOL
Anyhow.....I'll answer your question, but right now my wife just called and wants to take me to lunch. Sorry - you loose. LOL
Back shortly.
Tom
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I'd advise reading up carefully on the factchecking of this "FairTax" idea. Yet another scheme for the super rich to avoid taxes.
And I would advise you to actually read and digest HR25 instead of some axe-to-grind website. I believe it was you who once responded to Jeff Mathews (IIRC) in a sarcastic tone that if it was published on the internet it MUST be true.
That website's position is COMPLETELY NOT TRUE. That argument has been made so many times and answered/disputed so many times it's not funny. Again - read the darn bill. The tax is imbedded in the price - NOT added to the price of the goods. IOW, the price you see is the price you pay. When the cash register rings it doesn't ADD more tax. And FWIW....folks in this country have an issue about some folks who pay little to no tax because their income level allows them to shelter money. Then there's the drug dealers who pay for everything in cash. And finally, there's the folks living in this country who pay no taxes due to them being here for diplomatic/government/student/research/whatever reasons, yet they drive on roads and use water and other infrastructure things that the taxes you & I pay go to. Under the FairTax, none of those folks get a free ride anymore. And then there's the prebate that essentially makes lower income folks come out better than they do today! But don't take my word for it or bother to read HR25 or any of the various books that dispell every criticism ever leveled with HARD NUMBERS FACTS......no, just believe what you read on the internet. Sheesh.......
My point of this post was NOT to tout the notion of the FairTax and I believe I said that in so many words in my original post. And in hindsight I wish I'd edited out the part concerning sending a donation for it diverted attention away from the point I was trying to make. So that's my bad. My point was that until we get mad enough or have enough liberties taken away, our government is gonna continue to mis-managed this nation into the ground IMHO.
Tom
ps: Thanks for not calling me any names. LOL
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I got a box of (6) cans for $12 plus another $10 for the trim rings. That's a far cry from $60+ for ONE four foot flourescent fixture.
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Colter's Shop of Klipsch
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
Hmmmmm......nope. No such thing as winterizing here in south Georgia.
BTW Michael.....here's a couple shots of my humble 20' x 24' garage/workshop.