[Forte II's available Upstate New York...........]

OldB,

Thanks for the invite. I may well take you up on the offer when I'm there next. I'm very interested to hear how they sound with tubes. I too am quite happy with how they sound with one of my Yamahas (for some reason they didn't sound good with the other, or a new HK which I purchased more recently), but I can't help wondering after hearing so many good things.

And don't worry. I'm 42 but equally stuck in the 70s, at least as far as music is concerned.

Thanks again.

[Accuracy and Emotion]

Congrats to the author of this thread for devising such thought provocation. This really gets to the heart of the matter, doesn't it?

The measure of a "good" speaker seems in many ways dependent upon your reason for listening in the first place. Reading the posts it would appear that there are two types of people who listen to stereos. Some listen for accuracy, hoping for no "impurities" in the way a wine connoisseur might judge a favorite grape. Others listen to music, hoping to get lost in the emotion, in the way a wine lover might enjoy the fermented grape.

The fundamental differences in this regard seem to explain the sometimes heated exchanges in this forum about Bose speakers which, as I understand, were designed more to evoke emotion, than awe in accuracy. But, as proven by the fact that there are nearly 20 pages of posts about the latest iteration of 901s on this forum, whatever else is true, Bose does evoke emotion.

To me, speakers are more like tires, than wine. They are a product of compromise. Its hard to make a small speaker sound like a K-horn. Its hard to make an "accurate" speaker sound "live." Its hard to make a "live" speaker sound "warm" without tubes and vinyl. Its harder still to do any of these things and still sell the product at a competitive price point.

But perhaps the most defining moment of this thread so far was Max's description of the emotional moment when 20 people gave a home stereo a standing ovation. Most of us who read this forum with any frequency can probably appreciate (if not personally relate to) the magical feeling Max described. Few others could. In the end, that distinction between types of listeners may be the most relevant.

[Forte II's available Upstate New York...........]

Yes, I spent my first 18 years in the Spa, and miss it much. When I close my eyes and listen to music, the image is always of a concert at SPAC. Whether or not I actually ever saw the band in question, it always seems better to imagine it playing in that great town. I'm convinced there's more to do there than in most cities 10 times its size.

I've read with interest your forum contributions over the past several months. You seem to emphasize the difference betweeen SS and tubes as much or more than anyone. If I recall correctly, you've had the Scott amp for a relatively short time. What did you use to drive the Heresies before that?

[Forte II's available Upstate New York...........]

Just read that you live in my hometown OldB. Great little place, isn't it?

Have had my Heresy's now for about 2 mos., thanks in part to your reassurances when I was suffering buyer's remorse. Thanks for the advice. Love 'em. Still haven't heard them with tubes. Maybe next time I'm home you can show off yours?

[WAY OT: Help me, I need advice on helping a friend]

I'm in charge of seminars in my line of work (lawyer) so I feel your pain. Maybe this will sound cowardly coming from a trial lawyer, but I've
often found that it is best to avoid direct
confrontation unless necessary. Better to manipulate where possible.

I like the idea of comment cards. Stress anonymity, which will promote honesty. Your ROI for the seminars has to be a part of your marketing plan, I would guess. If he is an active part of the marketing, he should be privy to the bottom line, too. Bring him in for that part of the meetings, and discuss the costs, along with the responses in the comment cards. Have him face the music as you have had to.

You could also suggest that his compensation in part be contingent on the return from such marketing. My guess is he will react better to such an "opportunity" than he will to a "come to Jesus" speech which might jeopardize an otherwise prosperous partnership.

And one more thing, the ROI of 90% you reported on your last effort sounds remarkable. Not in my best day could I hope for such a return. How does that rank among your seminars before him? If its higher, you might just have to accept that what he and you do together works. Maybe you have found a role as the straight man, a la Burns and Allen.

[Klipsch Heresy IIIs - An Old Flame Rekindled]

Arky, I practice and practice but I'm still far from perfect. How about U?

[Klipsch Heresy IIIs - An Old Flame Rekindled]

As some of you in this forum know, I recently struggled with whether
to purchase and thereafter stop from returning a new pair of Klipsch
Heresy IIIs. After living with a thirty year old memory of Heresys I heard but couldn't afford, I purchased some on line in an impulsive moment. For the next several weeks I struggled with the prudence of the whim and received helpful input from many members of this forum. Thanks for all the advice, again.

In the meantime, I read with great interest the controversy about the
Heritage line of speakers, particularly the Heresy (witness the
disparate views expressed by "thermalup" and the responses to his
postings - "Heresy - not for me."). After my speakers arrived in the mail several days ago, I feel
like I personally ran the gamut from Klipsch fan, to foe, and back again. Because of that, I feel like I might have a different
perspective than many who are either unfamiliar or far more familiar
these speakers than I. For what its worth, at the risk of preaching to
the choir, here's the aural observations of a new Klipsch owner:

The Heresy IIIs (I have never heard the larger Heritage line)
leave little margin for error. Because they are so loud, and so crisp,
anything "wrong" with the music becomes obvious immediately. They
remind me somehow of a camera with fine lenses, whose images are so
sharp that anything out of focus is truly undeniable. When these
speakers are out of focus, they are not just bad, they are annoying.
Most cheap speakers can create unrealistic sounding music. These
speakers can create noise. Loud noise.

And they are not particularly "accurate" as that term is typically defined. Part of the "magic" of the studio is to try to create the impression of
a sound stage by careful manipulation during production. Many
"high-end" speakers can recreate the subtle nuances of this
production. Some are simply scary. A Magnepan reproduces the breaths taken in the millisecond
before Miles Davis blows out a run of sixteenth notes so well we know
if he had a cold. And we can hear Eric Clapton's fingers slip from
chord to chord so well
on a pair of Martin-Logans that know if he needed a manicure.

We
have
come to call the reproduction of these studio details "accurate." And
we feel justified in this view by pointing to the charts showing "flat"
frequency response. After all, its scientifically objective, right?

And its true. Klipsch Heresys do not produce the
same discernable separation between instruments or quite the sound
stage as some.

But then, you know what? Neither does a band.

Close
your eyes the next time you are listening to live music and see if you
can tell exactly where a guitar is positioned, or the drums, or the
voices. In my experience, the sound you hear at a concert is chiefly
coming directly from one or both of two large stacks of speakers
(which, I might add, typically are replete with horns) and indirectly
from numerous sound reflecting surfaces (the recreation of which is, of
course, the idea behind Bose products). And the same holds true for
most non-amplified concerts. The sound you hear from an orchestra is
largely just as ambient (non-focused), unless you have the pricey seats
close enough to the concert mistress to see up her skirt. A jazz
concert, with brass and woodwind instruments capable of focused sound
projection, has some natural sound "staging." But that's the
exception. (And, as we all well know, the Heresys actually image those
instruments quite well anyway). Any "staging" that we "hear" at a real
concert is usually in our heads, created by the image we see of where a
performer is standing on the stage. A "sound stage" is really an
artificial
creation of the studio intended to give the impression of a live
performance. So a speaker's ability to recreate this doesn't
necessarily make it more "accurate" compared to a live performance. It
might just make it more artificial.

And
why does anyone ever point to a chart when measuring speakers anyway?
Listening to music isn't a science experiment. Music is an art. Its
all about emotion. And passion doesn't come from a really flat line on
the charts. It comes from imagining the expressions on the faces of the performers, the movement of their bodies while playing and the weird sense of community the audience feels while simultaneously moving to the same beat. That emotion comes from the stage, not the studio. I think "accuracy" should be measured by how close a
speaker comes to moving the audience,
as the performers might on stage. Neither the studio nor the laboratory have much to do with that.

That may be news to alot of folks, but Bose knows, and has for a while. We can stick our audio noses in the air all we want, but if a flat line response meant two figs to most audiences, Bose wouldn't be the number one speaker manufacturer and one of the most recognizable brands in the world.

When Klipsch Heresys are mated to the proper amp (and perhaps broken in a little) they do something that no other speaker I have heard can do. They reproduce sound like you would hear if you closed your eyes and listened at a concert. The crash of the cymbals. The pounding of the drums. The power of the guitar
chord. The passion of the voice. Its the feeling of being there, near
the stage, not the studio. Sure, those charts are hard to argue with.
But I'm not trying to think logically when I'm listening to music. I'm
trying to get lost in the emotion. And as even a cursory review of this forum will show, no other speaker evokes emotion more than Klipsch.

Yeah, for now at least, I sound like a bad Klipsch commercial. I know, I know. But on the outside chance someone reading this
feels just confident enough to make the purchase, it was worth sharing
my passion for an old flame with whom I have just been reunited.

[Klipsch Heresy III - Worth it?]

OK, I'm not sure what happened. I was close to sending these things back to the internet supplier which sent them to me (ONECALL), despite all your raves. Real close. I had already picked out the flat screen to buy instead. Then, something happened.

After reading all the suggestions about hooking up the H3s to a different amp, I tried an older Yamaha receiver which always seemed "warmer", but almost "muddy" with most other speakers, so I had stopped using it. Glad I didn't discard it. That mattered. For the first time, I liked this new set of horns. And then, as I continued to listen over the next day, gradually, they seemed to get even better. Maybe there is something to this speakers getting "broken in" thing. Or maybe, my senses are just overwhelmed by my desire to want to like these things. I'm not sure anymore.

But I do know this: I'm not sending these back now. I love the idea that they are still handmade. I love that their style is not in style. I love that they are controversial. And I love that their "sound" is so identifiable they inspire people with passion to write about them at 10:35 p.m. on a Monday night to a group of likeminded strangers.

Thank you for all the advice.

Vive La Klipsch! May you continue to inspire.

[Klipsch Heresy III - Worth it?]

I listened to the Heresy III's for the better part of two days. I tried placing them at different listening levels, on the floor, on stands, even in bookshelves. I tried them in different rooms, bedrooms, living rooms, even a patio. I tried them with two different amps (neither had tubes, both from the late 90s). Placement did matter. They sounded best when they could really cook, outside. They were similar, but for the most part, less desirable than the old reference series.

I really don't think it could be that I don't like the "Klipsch" sound, since I like my reference series so much. In fact, my whole house is filled with various smaller reference and a few synergy series as surround units. I have a pair of old vintage EPI 120s, which I have retired, but I think sound similar to these Heresy IIIs. I also have a pair of old DCM TimeFrame 1000s, which I may bring out of retirement as they seem to me far more accurate.

What else could I be missing? Is there really that much difference in amps? Can there really be something to this "break in" period?

If not, anyone in the market for two day old Heresy IIIs?

[Klipsch Heresy III - Worth it?]

I'm sure that the members of this thread are going to hate me, but....here goes. I just opened up my box of brand new Heresy IIIs, plugged them in and, gulp, I just don't like them. Compared to the reference series that they were supposed to replace, I'm disappointed. While they are certainly loud, they seem shrill, harsh and yes, colored. The bass is weak, and even when helped with a sub, seems to push out a single note for the bass kick in every song. The vocals are clear, but imaging and separation are hard to discern. They sound best to me when pushed hard, but how long can anyone enjoy concert levels?

After reading the nearly universal praise that these speakers were given in this forum, I feel a little like the little boy pointing out the Emperor's new clothes. What gives? Is it my amp (non-descript Yamaha receiver)? Is it my room (20 x 20 sunken den, carpeted but no curtains)? Or has my taste just changed over the 30 years since I first heard and fell in love Heresy's?

Please tell me that my childhood illusions should not be so easily shattered.

[Klipsch Heresy III - Worth it?]

Honestly, I thought this "tribe" might encourage me, but I am surprised at the level of enthusiasm. Have no fear, I now fully intend to wait (albeit now impatiently) for the backordered Heresy III's to arrive sometime next week. Will let you all know what I think. In the meantime, thanks a bunch for all the input.

[Klipsch Heresy III - Worth it?]

I have been a fan of Klipsch since I was 14 when a local dealer ran a promo inviting anyone (even kids who couldn't afford them) to audition their favorite music. One play of Cheap Trick's "Dream Police" later and I was hooked. That was nearly 30 years ago, but I remember those Heresy's well.

Last week on an impulse I ordered a pair of the new Heresy III sight unseen, sound unheard. They are on backorder. Now, as I sit here pleasantly enjoying my Klipsch reference series bookshelves (RB-61s) I'm second guessing the purchase.

Anyone out there familiar enough with the Heresy's to advise whether they are that much better than the bookshelf reference series to justify another $1500K?