tross
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Posts posted by tross
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I agree with NatGun.
Go with Denon - you won't be disappointed. Awesome sound quality, less bugs than the others, and great video features. If I wasn't using the 5308, I would have the 4308 or the 3808. Denon makes a fantastic AVR. They also allow you to upgrade your unit from a click of the remote - which has been extremely useful for us Denon users. I spent a lot of time testing the various units - you will be happy with Denon.
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Small world - I live in Austin and we all bleed orange in my house! You might want to buy the Onkyo at Fry's or Circuit City and test it out - you have 30 days to return it if you don't like it. I went through that process and ended up with Denon as my choice. Here is my experience - http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/99853.aspx
Good luck.
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Congrats. You will love the 83s. I'm bi-amping mine with a Denon AVR. I still can not believe the amount of bass that I get out of these speakers. It really does sound like they have active subs in them
They are beasts! I have mine about 1 foot from the rear wall and about 10" from the side (they are in the corners of a room). -
Don't know about the lower models, but I did test the Onkyo 905. The Denon 4308 ran circles around the Onkyo in terms of sound quality and video quality. I highly recommend that you go to Frys or Circuit City and get the Onkyo and test it. Then go to BB and get the Denon and test that. You'll need to give the second unit a fair test, since you will probably be a little biased to the first product that you test. Then make your own decision. I posted all my findings here http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/99853.aspx
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Interesting perspective. Especially since the RC7 can go down to 45Hz. I don't think its the voice that you need to worry about though, its sound effects -maybe transitioning from left to right across the center - or something that may hit all channels all at once.
I've been told that a good rule of thumb is to set the cross over so that you have a ~20 Hz overlap. So you might want to set your cross over on your center to 60 and give it a try. I really like the way the RC-64 sounds with a cross over set to 80 (the RC-64 is rated at 62Hz for it low).
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Thanks phastlane. Here are a few more data points after using the 5308 all
weekend.
1- Bi-Amping rocks. I did not bi-amp the 4308 that I tested, but now I
wish I had to hear the difference on that unit. It's not difficult to setup, but you need to set it up
before running audessey (not to state the obvious). The 5308 with bi-amping is
unbelievable. The bass is
plentiful, the RF-83s are in NO way too bright (which can be the case with
class=GramE>less powered
AVRs). The mid's are there in
abundance - much more than with any other combo I tried.
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2- I was hoping to use the remote that came
with the Denon as the primary remote.
However, I gave up on this idea over the weekend and used my Harmony 880
instead. Logitech does NOT have
the 5308 in their database, so I used the 4308 for configuring the remote.
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I changed the default delay time to 0ms as the Logitech is way too slow by default. I had a few other Harmony related issues that sucked, but
that has nothing to do with the Denon so I won't bother describing those.
3- After running
Audessey, I changed the subwoofer from 2SP mix to 2SP L/R and the levels set by
Audessey were gone. I then changed
back to my original settings only to find that the levels do not come back.
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This isn't a big deal.style="mso-spacerun: yes">
Once you know which setting you want,stick with it.
4- The 5308 runs hot (hotter than any others
I tested)- especially in the top back left hand corner.
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So leave room for ventilation.5-
If I didn't decide to spend the money on the 5308, I
would have stuck with the 4308. I
would have bi-amped the 4308 and increased the subwoofer levels and surround
speakers from the Audessey settings.
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Just to add a little more color on the AVRs I tested. The OSD on the Denon works with all different resolutions (over HDMI) even if you are not upscaling the video. It just works. The Onkyo 905 that I used worked most of the time, but did not work with Blu-Ray movies - I assumed that it wouldn't work unless it could upscale the video. The Onkyo's OSD was also very limited - you couldn't overlay the AVR config, only the basic volume and interface type info. When switching to the config on the Onkyo the picture was not shown in the background (like it is on the Denon) and the sound is cut.
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I've read good things about outlaw, but I really can't get past the appearance and I don't know a single person that actually owns one. The only good things I hear about them are on-line. I'm very familiar with Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Rotel, Integra, and a few others. Given the time I've already spent evaluating AVRs, I'm very happy sticking with Denon. Outlaw didn't hit my radar for a variety of reasons (money was not one of them).
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I was considering the Integra 9.8 with a Rotel 1095 - which would have been right at the same price. However, after testing the Onkyo 905 I was very disappointed with Onkyo/Integra. The Integra dealer only confirmed my concerns so I ruled them out. Even though I don't have separates, the 5308 has many things that you just can't get right now unless you go with the Integra 9.8 or the 7k pre amp from Denon. My dealer is prepared to loan me a 1095 to test with the 5308, but honestly it isn't necessary. The power and SQ of the 5308 is more than adequate. For 5k - I have 6 HDMI inputs, better video quality, better audessey, near the power of a sep amp, THX Ultra 2, DD TrueHD, DTS HD MA - all of this and I don't have the bugs that I found in the competing products that have similar features.
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WOW!!! I've spent a few hours now with my 5308. It really is better than the 4308ci. I was second guessing my decision to upgrade cause I was very happy with the 4308. Now I know that I made the right decision. The 5308 rocks!! Audessey did a great job balancing everything. On the 4308 (and other receivers that I've tested) the bass would be set too low - Not on the 5308. No problems other than it still recognizing my center as large (I'm using the Klipsch RF-83 system w/ an RC-64 center).
The video upscaling is awesome. The On Screen Display works at all resolutions. So far no noticeable problems - I'm going to be watching closely over the next few days.
I've run Audessey 2 times. The first time I only used a single listening position and the SQ was great. The second time I used 8 listening positions and again the sound was awesome. The front speaker were balanced better when using 8 listening positions. After both times, I had to change my center to small and set the cross over to 80 (the 5308 picked 60 for my surrounds, which is what I usually set them too). I didn't have any problems with the setting changing back (like hifiaudio2 described - all I did was hit return after changing the settings). I'm not using an UltraII sub so I didn't enable the THX sub feature. I am however using 2 separate subs (5.2 setup). I'm using the 2SP mix setting. I love the fact that the 5308 can manage 3 separate subs independently.
So far I've been listening to my BD movies in LPCM in THX mode. My Pioneer won't allow me to use THX on LPCM, so I was very happy to see that the 5308 will allow this - and it sounds awesome (have I said that already)? Looks like the 5308 has Dynamic EQ enabled by default - which is a good thing (you don't need a pro installer to use this feature).
There are a number of people complaining about the various firmware anomalies on Denons. I didn't have any issues with the firmware upgrade on the 5308 - which is the very first thing I did after connecting power (upgraded via the Ethernet port - not wifi). It took ~40 minutes to complete. I upgraded the firmware 2 times on my old 4308 and both times I had to restart the unit manually after the upgrades. The 5308, restarted itself automatically.
Once again - info in the manual is lacking. Same old strange Denon remotes - all though the main remote has grown on me.
So far, I'm very happy with the 5308. I haven't heard the 83s sound this good on anything else.
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After using the 4308ci
for a good number of days, I thought I'd change back to the Onkyo 905 - just
for fun. This last swap really
cleared it up for me - Denon runs circles around Onkyo.
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The Denon's sound quality is much more"pure" than the Onkyo - this was really obvious on the center
channel. The delay with the Onkyo
is real. When playing the same source in two locations (using the Onkyo), there
was a noticeable delay with the sound from the Onkyo. There was no delay with the Denon. This actually makes a difference when your watching
something like the Superbowl and you have it running in two places - which we
did. Transitioning between
locations in the house was smooth with the Denon - it was irritating with the
Onkyo. The 4308ci is so good, that
I'm now thinking about upgrading to the 5308ci.
After this last
exercise, I went back to the local Integra dealer (Austin only has one).
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Again, I told them what I am doing andasked to pay for their demo Integra 8.8 (they have it on the floor being used
for demos). You would not believe
the excuses they gave me as to why they couldn't let me test the 8.8.
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They actually passed on my businesswithout even trying. They refused
to let me take one of their boxes.
Their reaction was so out of character (especially for a family owned
business that I'm sure could use the money), it could only mean that they KNOW
the product has the same issues as the 905.
On to the 5308ci, which
will most likely be my permanent solution.
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Denon 4308CI Review
Ive had the Denon for a few days now. I have to say that
Im very surprised. The sound
quality is very good, the video upscaling is very sharp, the problems I had
with the Onkyo do not exist in the Denon.
The AMP is surprisingly powerful – SQ is great at high and low
levels. I usually listen to my
movies at -15 db but with the Denon, its plenty loud at -22 db.
Pros:
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GUI is very nice.It overlays the picture on the screen so you can watch TV while you tune
the receiver (Onkyo did not do this).
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Video upscaling is high quality-
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Video never loses sync (unlike the Onkyo)-
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Produces a very natural sound without changing DSPmodes
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Absolutely no delay processing sound/video (unlike theOnkyo)
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I updatedthe firmware by myself (very nice feature for future proofing)
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Denon has an add feature option in the GUI.style="mso-spacerun: yes">
The receiver will actually downloadfeatures when made available.
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Plenty of powerCons:
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GUI is nice, but configuring the receiver was not thatstraight forward. The Onkyo was
actually a bit easier to configure.
Finding items in the Denon menu took a little getting used to.
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The Onkyo menu is moretraditional. I have a feeling that
after some time, Ill prefer the Denon navigation but for now its foreign.
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When thevolume and mute is displayed on the TV the text has a black box
background. The Onkyo simply
overlayed the white letters over the picture. The black box background is not very elegant.
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While I didnt like changing from THX to direct on theOnkyo, I kinda missed that ability on the Denon. No THX Ultra 2 cert on the Denon as well.
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I recently tested the 905. My first impression of the SQ was not great. After running Audessy and tweaking the settings the SQ was pretty good. I liked the unit more the second day. However, there are other issues that ruled the 905 out for me. The Integra 8.8 might not have the same issues, but I doubt it. You might want to see this link http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/99853/1010920.aspx#1010920.
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Onkyo 905 Review.
OK so after testing the Sony 5300ES for a brief (very brief)
time, I returned it to the store and tried to get my hands on an Integra 8.8
(or 9.8 with a Rotel 1095 amp). I
didnt have any luck with the Integra since we only have 1 dealer in town and
they are in high demand. The
dealer had some units coming in, but I didnt want to mess around swapping
dollars with a small AV shop.
So instead I picked up an Onkyo 905 from Frys.
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The thought being that if I like theOnkyo, then the Integra 8.8 will be even better – right???
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OK so here is my review of theOnkyo.
Ive had the Onkyo for a few days now.
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The first impression of SQ out of thebox was not good. I wasnt happy
with the SQ in general. After
running Audessy and messing with various speaker settings (small vs large,
different crossovers, double bass on/off, etc), I was happy with the SQ from
all but the bass and center channel.
I had to increase the bass drastically from Audessys settings.
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After some tuning, playing lossless from my PS3 with THX
selected on the 905 (using 300 as my main test movie), the SQ was very
good. However, when I selected
direct or pure audio, the center channel was very hollow.
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I switched movies and used THX settingonce again – this time the center sounded a tad too bright so I switched
to pure direct and it sounded great.
I guess I dont mind switching from Direct to Pure Audio to THX
depending on the source, but I never had to do this with my old Sony ES –
Auto Format Decode on the Sony made everything sound good.
Ive read several complaints about lip sync issues on the
905. I have 2 HT setups in my
house. So I came up with a
slightly different test. I played
the same cable channel using the same exact cable box at the same time on the two
systems. While I did not notice
any lip sync issues with the 905, there was a delay in the audio that was only
noticeable when I played the same source in 2 different places.
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Not a big deal since the video andaudio are going through the 905 (via HDMI), but my fear is that this could
become an issue in the future – assuming Im not sending the video
through the amp in the future. If
the video is ahead of the sound, you cant fix this problem.
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So this is a concern for me.This last problem ruled the 905 out for me.
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When watching HD TV via Time Warner,different audio formats are sent to the amp depending on the source – so
when transitioning to/from commercials it is common to go from DD to stereo.
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During some of these transitions, the905 actually resynced the video in addition to the audio format.
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This caused a few seconds of a bluescreen on my TV. It really
wouldnt have been that bad if it was just a few times watching TV – but
it wasnt!!! When watching 300 on
blu ray, if you skip chapters chances are very good that you will lose your
video signal and blue screen your tv for a few second.
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Also, when loading the movie from myPS3, I would get 3 different transitions before the movie would start with blue
screens. This was VERY VERY
irritating. So much so that I
think I may go back to the Sony store and get another 5300ES.
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Ill need to make sure the 5300ES hasthe firmware update that fixes the last problem I had with static on the HDMI
ports. If the 5300ES fixes this
problem, Id actually prefer the Sony over the 905! Before I go the Sony route again, Im going to test a Denon
4308ci.
If the 905 is anywhere representative of the Integra 8.8 or
9.8, then they are all out in my book.
If someone has tested the Integra 8.8 or 9.8 video switching, please let
me know if this is correct
On to testing Denon.
905 Summary
Good:
-Big AMP with
lots of power.
-Easy to use
menu.
-Sound Quality
with tweaking.
-Really liked
the 1080i upconvert to 1080P - quality was very good aside from the resync issues
Bad:
-Have to know
which mode is appropriate to get the best SQ (not a big issue)
-Delay in sound
processing (could be a big issue)
-Video loses
sync when skipping chapters on Blu Ray and watching cable (big issue)
-OSD overlay
works for volume and changing DSP, but not for config (only the menu with no
source video in the background)
-No way in
upgrade firmware via the menu (at least it wasnt obvious to me)
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Very interesting! Thanks for performing the test and sharing the results.
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BTW, I'm trying out the Sony STR-5300ES because it has 6 HDMI inputs. I have a hiss on the HDMI inputs from my PS3. I've tried multiple cables (different paths and cable types) with no luck. I actually had the hiss on my cable box as well, but changed a setting (HDMI priority from PCM to auto) and it went away. No luck getting rid of the hiss with the PS3. I don't think its the PS3 since I had the same problem with the cable box - I won't know until I change the receiver. Also, I don't like the way it displays Auto Format Decode instead of what the actually audio format is (DD, DTS, etc). Other than the hiss on HDMI, the sound is decent, the menu was fun to use, the auto calibration was a snap and fairly accurate. Despite the good things, the hiss is not acceptable and this unit is going back to the store.
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I finally got to see an Integra 8.8 (there is only 1 dealer in my area). It sounded awesome, the 1080P upscaling worked on a digital signal (unlike some of the others I've seen), adjustments (like volume) were overlayed on the screen so you can see changes without losing pic. It's packed with features and looks like an Awesome deal at 2,500.
Anyone have experience with this receiver?
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What receiver did you go with for all the high bit rate streams?
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I somewhat interested in buying a new receiver with HD audio formats. Pioneer's latest receiver looks interesting.. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/ci.VSX-94TXH.Kuro?tab=A Someone told me that I should wait to buy a new receiver due to the new HD audio standards. After looking at this receiver with TrueHD, DTS HD and HDMI 1.3a, I'm thinking that maybe the advice was incorrect (it just a matter of spending the money). So which HD audio formats should I look for in a receiver that should last for 5-7 years?
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I have a Velodyne DSL-5000R in the shop. This is the second time in 2 years that the AMP has failed (popping and strange sounds). The Velodyne is a beast with a 15" driver and 1000 Watts - but this doesn't make up for the failure rate!!! While its in the shop (probably 4-6 weeks like the first time), I plan to buy another sub. I have a $1200 gift certificate at Best Buy that I'd like to use. So I'd like to know what everyone thinks about the various "inexpensive" subs at Best Buy (Magnolia center) - which would you buy (price not being an issue)? I'm leaning toward the Klipsch Synergy Sub-12. Its almost a shame to add a the wrong sub to my RF-83 system, but I want to use this gift cert. So just wondering what would the more experienced users do - remember money is not an issue, but it has to be purchased at Best Buy (the only way my wife will let me get away with it right now
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I just purchased my first Klipsch system. I can't wait until they arrive. I plan to move some things around and use a Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV receiver to drive them. The Pioneer will only allow me to set a single crossover for ALL speakers and I can choose between 50, 80, 100, etc. So a couple of questions come to mind:
1- Do better receivers/pre-amps allow you to set the crossover on each speaker (instead of one crossover for the entire system)?
2- Since the RC-64 has a low of 62Hz and the RS-62 has a low of 50Hz, would you use a crossover of 50 or 80 on the Pioneer?
The reason I ask the second question is that I just can't believe that the center on the RF-83 recommended system with 4 6.5" drivers can't go as low as the surrounds.. So I'm almost willing to take a chance at set the crossover at 50 even though Klipsch has 62Hz listed in the specs.
I'm planning to set my RF-83s to large, center and surrounds to small with a crossover at 50.
Also, would anyone recommend an AMP in addition to the Pioneer recvr? The Pioneer has plenty of "rated" power, but wondering if others added an AMP for better sound. I was thinking about adding a Rotel 1077 (their new 7 channel AMP).
They are beasts! I have mine about 1 foot from the rear wall and about 10" from the side (they are in the corners of a room).
How does the RF-83 Series play at lower volumes?
in Home Theater
Posted
The 83 are awesome when playing loud or soft. Much better than my previous speakers when transitioning from soft to loud. You'll be pleased.