hobie1dog
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Posts posted by hobie1dog
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Then I found this AES article on using two JBL 10" high efficiency drivers to replace the std Khorn midrange unit. very interesting swap.
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I love the looks of this Visaton horn I found today although it is quite pricey. very nice looking and very short too.
http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/V-6056-M300/M+300+-+Exponential+Horn
This is the complete speaker
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...and the jbl 2382A is no good because............
Never heard of that one...that is not the same one they were talking about above which was 30" tall and 32" deep.
This one you posted up a link to appears to be only 9" tall. Looking at the freq.response chart they posted using the JBL compression driver, it falls off rapidly after 5k so it would not seem to be a midrange only unit. I was looking for a 2 way design initally to keep some cost and simplicity in check.
Thanks for the link though as I'm looking at all options to keep that mid/high midsection as short as possible.
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The JBL horns are WAY too deep to be used with the Jubilee bass bins. What I'm going to be looking for are horns that are short in height, like the stock Khorn units, in fact I got thinking I could get some Khorn midrange and tweeter units complete and put the two side by side with the tweeter on the inside of the midrange horn. I would be making a short as possible midrange/tweeter unit that would look similar to the stock Khorn unit. That way I could keep the height as short as possible so that I could stack the second bass bin on top to keep it looking symetrical. With each bass bin being 40" tall, the mid section would be about 12" or so tall, so that I would end up with a speaker that would be less than 8' tall. That would fit my corners nicely.
I like the sound of the stock Khorn units anyway. I'm just suprised when I look at the AES paper on the Jubilee and look at Fig. 8 Frequency response of final prototype that it has an extremely poor looking response curve,,....nothing flat at all about it. Just makes me wonder about using some of the other drivers like was mentioned above that have a almost ruler flat response curve. I would think it would have to be a much better sounding top end.
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Try a TANNOY WESTMINSTER,,Awsome,,, No i have never been shy about spending money.
Last pair on Audiogon was priced at 12k used, I need to save my money so that I can go back to the British Virgin Islands in May when my daughter gets married.....this is a shot from last August.
There is more to life than speakers....( did I actually say that?)[*-)]
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That said, I have never been especially fond of the bass on the VOTTs (it is not there strong point). I think other cabinets (in that price range) do it better. Certainly a Klipschorn or Jubilee has a better bass response. Just my opinion etc.
that settles that then....no VOTT speakers for me. I still need little to remind myself how tight and punchy the bass was at Coytees house, I guess it will be hard to top that experience. Welll.....that is until I have 4 Jubilee bass bins in my house.
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Just found out a local guy found a set of Altec Voice of the Theatre speakers at Goodwill for $ 45.00
There is a set on Ebay in Louisville, Ky for 999.00 this week.....sure would like to hear those before I die.,
Here is a question for ya,,, would you rather buy a set of Voice of the Theatre speakers for 1k or have a set of Jubilees? Which would have more uumph?
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Could we please get back on topic?
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Just found out a local guy found a set of Altec Voice of the Theatre speakers at Goodwill for $ 45.00
There is a set on Ebay in Louisville, Ky for 999.00 this week.....sure would like to hear those before I die.,
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Blackburn trumpets...
Bruce
Bruce knows his trumpets.....a most excellent choice
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Just found out about a local Goodwill where a guy bought a set of Altec Voice of the Theatre speakers for $ 45.00
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".......
Building the horns would be something I would like to do, I would just need the curvature profiles to duplicate...bendable plywood is a wonderful product to work with. I guess I would like to make a duplicate of the 402 horn....yeah I know, another cheapskate copying someone's design......times are gonna get tough, believe me.
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I appreciate your interest in trying to build one of these (K-402). However this would not be a project for the faint-hearted.
Given the overall size and geometry you are limited in your choice of construction materials and techniques. More importantly, few of us (and certainly not me) have any idea just how critical some of these dimensions might be. So the nagging question throughout the project would be "how close is close enough". Please remember the DIY designs you have seen on this forum and others are for a "conventional tractrix" expansion. They would not have CD dispersion (again I do not know if this is a priority for you or not). Also many of these designs are relatively "small" and would not control the dispersion (polars) at the lower frequencies. Very few of them have any serious performance measures available. Most of them seem to rely on testimonials from the customers or builders.
I would suggest researching the suggestions from Dr Who (aka Mike). He seems to understand your concerns about price.
Just out of curiosity, is it your intention to build a Jubilee bass bin yourself or rather get one used or new?
Good Luck,
-Tom
All that is needed is a part to take the profile off of which can be done with a large profile gauge which will give you the curvature of each of the four planes of the horn. That can be layed out to give you a template to which you can use bendable plywood shaped to the template, then glassed with resin to maintain it's shape. Then the four sides are copied in width using any pliable mateial which can be transferred to the plywood so that it can be cut for the proper taper. Then sand and veneer the 4 parts, then assemble and secure them into a finished product. Then you could make the manifold adapter in the rear. Or you could do it even easier by making a fiberglas mold from the factory part, using traditional gel coat, resin and glass techniques.
I would be making my own Jubilee bass bins as well. CAD drawings done with alignment dowels machined in on a CNC machine for all the panels would be the way to go. You're not getting the idea I am a DIY'er from way back are you? My problem is that I can do almost anything I set my mind to and have the tools to do it with, which usually gets me into trouble...LOL Hundreds of hours later, finally finishing the project I always look back and go," I should have waited and saved up my money instead of wasting the valuable remaining minutes of my life doing this.
There is a product called Piano Lac that is a spray on waterbased finish that is rather easily to obtain the high gloss Piano Black finish that would make these things real "keepers". That's where I like the short horns which could be put between the top and bottom Jub bass bins per side. That's what I'm talkin about.[8]
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Here's a pair of Jubilee bass bins with Martinelli horns and Beyma CP750ND drivers. Two-way, passive network with NO EQ, crossed at 800Hz. The Martinelli's are not available any more, and they were very expensive anyway, but I wonder what a wooden tractrix horn would sound like with the Beyma drivers? I bet it would be great. Pretty simple to build a pair and try it, I just need more time!
Greg
WOW....those Beyma drivers have a very smooth response curve....darn near flat. Quuite expensive at 600.00 each though
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/CP750NdE.pdf
This site has a ton of Beyma drivers and horns. Didn't know they made that many different models.
http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%20index-1.htm
This site has a ton of Beyma drivers and horns...didn't know they made that many speakers.
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I'd really prefer to stack two pair of them for proper percussion impact
You really ARE a basket case!!
Remember, you helped create this monster.[6]
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Building the horns would be something I would like to do, I would just need the curvature profiles to duplicate...bendable plywood is a wonderful product to work with. I guess I would like to make a duplicate of the 402 horn....yeah I know, another cheapskate copying someone's design......times are gonna get tough, believe me.Here's a pair of Jubilee bass bins with Martinelli horns and Beyma CP750ND drivers. Two-way, passive network with NO EQ, crossed at 800Hz. The Martinelli's are not available any more, and they were very expensive anyway, but I wonder what a wooden tractrix horn would sound like with the Beyma drivers? I bet it would be great. Pretty simple to build a pair and try it, I just need more time!
Greg
Coytee mentioned using LaScala bass bins, but after hearing his Jubilee's, I would have to have nothing less in performance than those Jubes he has, and then I'd really prefer to stack two pair of them for proper percussion impact. I have only a desire to put highly dynamic loudspeakers in my room that will provide realisitic percussion effects. Then I'd still need to keep my subwoofer for the DEEP stuff. If you haven't cracked drywall seams, or knocked off items from shelves, then you have too small of a subwoofer. As in " Boogie Nights".............."Believe me, you NEED the bass"
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There was one 511 metal horn on Ebay for 300.00, then the driver for it was 400.00,
so that puts me up to 1400.00 instead of the 2k for the normal components.[
]And yes, a two way is the preferred way so that I won't end up with a 3 way / triamped system when I'm done.
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Without venturing off into off-topic areas or imposing on existing threads.....I am looking at COST-EFFECTIVE alternatives to the 402 horns and drivers that is normally used. Notice I emphasized "cost-effective". I don't have 2k to spend on the 402 horns or the K69 ?? drivers normally used, or the TAD units.[
]So what I would like to find is another horn/driver combo that would mate up with the Jub bass cabinet while still keeping it a two-way system, as I would be bi-amping to have control electronically over the slopes and levels to the drivers. I thought I read on one of the other threads where someone had preferred some Altec horns and drivers(that could be found used?) JBL??? Also keep in mind that I cannot hear ANYTHING ABOVE 14K CPS, so I don't need super-tweeters. The picture of Paul next to his Jubilee (with the wooden horn) type of thing is something I'd be interested in., is that the 510 horn????
Thanks in advance for any suggestions
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Have you played the explosion at the end of the Terminator track all the way up yet?
I had it at about half volume once and an hour later, had some dudes from Oak Ridge National Labs, dressed in black breaking into my door... they were saying something about protecting national security and siesmic waves....
Once people have had their hearing damaged, their ears are not going to get better. It would be as silly to trust someone's audio judgment who had damaged ears as it would be to trust a blind man's opinion of a painting.
Good point...but the damage is already done and I cannot turn back time.[:'(] Butt....I still want to know what speakers Ray Charles has in his home.[*-)]
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I need to really work on my post count on here...seems like I've been posting away for the past 6 months and I ain't got nothing in the numbers game.[
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Didn't we have it about 3/4 volume on the Lexicon when I auditioned them?
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2nd: I mention that about Chris coming since extra backs are always a plus when hoisting Khorns and LaScalas
I meant to say, when sharing lunch Wait a minute, aren't all Klipsch speakers made out of black foam board? Shouldn't be a problem then.
3rd: I have a copy of your demo disk... I could simply call you on phone and play it over the phone for you? I mean....it's the same thing, isn't it?
"I don't think so, Tim" Have you played the explosion at the end of the Terminator track all the way up yet?
4th: Deck is done and they still have to put the shingles on the decks roof. They also have other items to finish so the nail pounding isn't over yet. I'd hate to have you over during a time of silence.
I would be shoving some hammers up some carpenters butt's (with no Astroglide either) if that happens again....LOL
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Great idea, I'll call and have my other buddy call as well so that they are flooded with calls wanting Mirage tweeters. My buddy has a set of M3si models and we hooked both sets up and wired them in parallel so that it would present a 3 ohm load per channel on my Macro Reference so it was putting out about 1200 watts/ch and it was simply GLORIOUS[8][A]
I do need two pairs of these out front stacked on top of each other ( would be 9 ft tall ) ahhh, the wife would have to deal with it....tooo bad.
Then have some Jubilee bass bins in the corners and still have the IB subwoofer firing down in the attic with the 3200 watt amp on it. OHH YEAHHHH
Complete the system with some 5 ft tall towers in the rear powered with a Crown K2 amp and we'll just about be where I want to end up.
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Hobie,
I am no electrical engineer...........but when I ran my Mirage M1's with my little Onkyo 506 I got excellent Volume just turning the volume to 8:00 Oclock on my dial.............
If you have that much power, do you maybe have something hooked up incorrectly? or do you just like Loud Volume?........just trying to Understand because the Mirage is an excellent, smooth speaker....... JMHO.
Yes, the wiring is correct...and yes I like it to be able to reproduce realistic levels as sitting in the middle of an 18piece Big Band loudness ( I am a trumpet player..played in my share of Big Bands through the years). If you know of any serious trumpet players, do they play soft? It is the loudest instrument in an orchestra....God's instrument....the last sound to be heard throughout the world....he's not gonna use a Basoon to signal the Last Coming.[:|][
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I have found out that they are not available anywhere at this time....the guy who bought the diagrahm press has told me that it would take a large order for him to justify making new tweeters....when I bought the speakers both of the rear tweeters were already blown.[
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I meant to say, when sharing lunch 
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Jubilee horn alternatives
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Mike:
Thanks for your input, but everytime I've listened to two pairs of speakers together, it always sounds better,... effortless, more dynamic slam, more presence, better bottom end giving more "ambience to the sound",just more realisitic to me, but everybody is different and has different hearing. I'm not of the "my precious midrange purity and delicacy camp". Mini monitors, slender towers, bookshelf speakers never can and never will be able to reproduce the sound of being in the middle of a 18pc Big Band. they are worthless to me. Once again, everybody likes something different.
Comb-filtering is non-existant to me and if it is a detrimental factor to sound reproduction, it's an extremely small one as the benefits of the extra speakers far outweigh its effects. Never have I listened to two pairs of speakers and said, " Boy, the comb filtering ruined the sound" Every concert I've attended usually has multiple speakers on stage. The last Pat Metheny concert I attended had one of the highest fidelity sounds I've ever experienced and there were a large amount of speakers playing together.'
The MWM bass bin will not fit in most living rooms...it's footprint is far too big..too deep and too wide and requires a minimum of 4 of them to do justice to the sound. [
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The problem with the 402 is that it's too tall for me. As far as your comment" you should never even come close to requiring" Ive heard the Jubs twice now and both times left saying, "Sure would be about right if there were 4 of these in a room as I never reached the volume level that puts the band in your room. Coytees was close, but his room is alot smaller than mine. The other factor you are not aware of is that I have an extremely large room to fill up. Approx. dimensions....32ft wide 28ft deep with 14ft ceilings throughout most of the room...that makes a HUGE difference in required output. Now compare that to your normal 8ft tall ceiling, 14ft wide, 20ft deep room....well, you can do the math. I also cannot put a "wall of direct radiators" in my room as it is my living room and my front wall has a 110" diagonal screen on it. My main wall is 19 ft wide that has the screen on it. The Jubs will fit into the corners nicely, and allow me to increase the size of my screen to 140" diagonal which is my next project for the video side of the AV system.
Hope this explains my situation better.
Bigger is better.[Y]