maxg
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Posts posted by maxg
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I was in an electronics store the other day and they were doing a demonstration of one of those new PMP (portable media player) machines that plays everything (MP3, WAV, WMV, DIVX from a DVD or CD disk) with a 7 inch screen that folds flat on top.
Poor sod doing the demo is asking questions to the assembled onlookers and turns to me asking:
"And you Sir - what format is your music in?"
You can imagine how crestfallen he was when I replied that I had about 1500 vinyl records.
Quick as a flash though he responded with "and you can record those digtially to play back on here."
He didn't ask me any more questions so I moved on. I did not mention that my phone does most of what his machine does so I guess he got off lightly in the end.
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"I believe this has gone way beyond a healthy debate (for some). "
Considering the subject matter I think everyone has behaved in a remarkably civil way throughout. If you think this one is bad just have a search for the SET threads. Now those ARE threads that get out of hand and downright nasty at times.
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Just out of interest Mike - do you know where I can get Bose 901 drivers for 50 cents. They seem to be rather more expensive on-line - even used on ebay.
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DD,
Wholeheartedly concur on the bass output from the Promedia 2.0's. Yesterday was a bank holiday. I was at home and we have painters in doing the whole house. As a result my stereo was in pieces in the middle of the living room covered with tarps and I was restricted to the study where I have a pair of 2.0's on the computer.
Whilst working on a excel I had a radio station playing from the internet. At some point they played some rap tune or other and the bass was amazing. I have no idea how they managed to do that with such tiny drivers but I was really impressed. This is certainly far bassier than my old computer speakers - which had a separate sub that sat under the desk.
The only negative for these is the power supply connection. I find that unless the cable is in exactly the right position the sound disappears and it replaced by a continuous rat-a-tat-tat from the speakers - lift the power cable a bit and it stops. Why they chose to implement such a non-standard power adapter fitting is beyond me.
I should really take them in to be looked at - but who has the time when it is a problem that is easily addressed?
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"I think the emotional aspect of the recorded event is equally elusive. I myself have used descriptions of the importance of a system to capture the emotional aspect of music, but this morning I found myself challenging my own thinking on that. As in the case of the accuracy of reproduction, which is impossible to calculate unless one happened to be in the studio (and even then the memory of what took place will lack complete clarity), emotion is just as hard, or even harder, to quantify. How can we know whether the actual emotion present during the recording is being reproduced or not? All we here is the music. "
I am not sure I am ever looking to recapture the emotional aspects of the music from a live event. Emotions are funny things - they are influenced by related experiences often during, prior to, or immediatly following an individual music event. To attempt to recapture that is far from a system related issue.
Listening to a piece of music, or indeed the sudden passing of a familiar aroma, can being back totally unrelated memories of an event long passed. this may be a happy memory or a sad one - it probably very much influenced our memory of a given piece of music. I am not sure it says anything about how accurately the replaying comes across - merely accurately enough to return the memory.
In the main, when I sit down to listen to a piece of music on my system at home is it, of itself, an event. Influences ranging from my mood, how tired I am and various other environmental issues (comfort, temperature, have I eaten, drank etc. etc.) have a very direct effect on my listening experience - possibly far more than what the system is, or is not, doing.
Now I might hear, for example, Neilsen's "Without You" on a transistor radio and that will be enough to stir a fond memory and bring gobs of emotion flooding back (I wont say what I was doing - for the first time - when this was playing - but you can probably guess).
Separating out - the above obviously un-audio-related aspects of music is not that easy. It can happen - but it does not necessarily refer to any given event in our lives - live performance or otherwise.
Looking at emotion slightly differently I have experienced suddenly "getting it" with a given piece of music. Like most listeners I have music I generally like and music that just doesnt quite do it for me. If I take an example close to my heart - I get La Traviata - it just does it for me, but till recently Il Trovadore simply missed the mark. Last week, late one evening I decided to give Trovadore a whirl on the TT - side one. For possibly the first time - I really feel that I got it - it hit home in a way it has never done before and I ended up listening to the entire Opera (all six sides) till the early hours.
It is here, I feel, that a good playback system CAN help - but not always. I just became totally immersed in the music and everything else in my life disappeared. Sadly it does not happen every time - nor with every piece of music I chose to play. There are evenings when I flit from one recording to another desperately seeking imersion only to be unable to find it. Sometimes it is the first disk on the platter that does it - and sometimes it takes a few. I would venture that it is more likely to happen on my system than a lesser one (according to my tastes) - or even a possibly better one that doesnt quite connect me to the music (witness the Avantegard system I heard recently).
Where I come totally unstuck in all of this is when something played back simply comes across as totally real. I am not saying it is exactly like live but it appears to be so - to me, at that moment in time. I had it recently with a guitar being played back on a system. It just seemed so tangibly "guitar" - in the philosophical sense that I was quite amazed. To me - this is neither accuracy nor emotion - it is something quite different but I am pushed to be able to label it. It has happened before - a lone trumpet over the orchestra, a sudden bang on a drum that just hits the mark of perfection.
I do wonder how much counterpoints help in this assessment. In the system described above the guitar - so real - was followed by voice that was so not real. At the same time this provided massive disappointment and yet served to underline how good the guitar was.
Very ocasionally - an entire piece can be right. At a recent ACA meeting we were fortunate enough to hear Stokowski's Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 on a very nice system indeed. This was so absolutely right in some undefinable way that at the end of the performance - and performance it was - I sponanteously stood up and applauded. To my amazement I was joined by others and it was only at that moment that I realized the whole room had been totally silent throughout the playback. For a room full of Greeks to be silent for such a period is quite a rare event I can tell you.
I could go further and say that actually at that very moment I realized I was not alone listening - that there was, in fact, 20 other audiophiles listening along with me.
Needless to say the owner of the system was very proud at that moment - and rightly so.
What is this "reality" to the sound that can be so elusive? Mood? System? Recording? Room? I do not know. I do find it is not reliably repeatable in the main but beyond that?????
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"If so then I ask the dear reader to consider that Sir Maximus must be a confederate of Lord Thebes and they have tricked us once again."
I be merely Mercury Squire Colter (nee Capulet I'll wager). Ne'er a man was killed by ditty alone - poorly wrought or no - t'was a seeming ancient Greek did start all this - and to him carry thine complaint. Perhaps he doth plot to hide his own (Theban) Band?
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Mark,
Knock yourself out - go for 100 pages - I'm just gonna bow out - just too many - "they suck" posts for some garbled scientific reason - without any reference to actually hearing them - not to mention the whole properly setup - in a decent room etc. thing.
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Somebody please shoot this thread and bury it decently. My God - we are approaching Meagain problem length - over a speaker model!
Ya likes em - ya don't - it is no biggie.
That's all folks - more along please - nothing to see here.
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My Leige,
Word has passed my ear this very day of an insult to the ear greater yet than that of Sir William of Shattnered drum.
It would appear that Lord Leonard of Limoy did once a record make and fouler deed there never was although I confess twas not I that heard it, merely of it - so the truth cannot be for certain sure this day.
Perchance some brave knight of the realm might further this quest to hear the reported ditty and report back?
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I have never stopped the platter to change a record - on any of my TT's.
There is just a knack to it - dont ever recall dropping a record in the process either.
Last night I listen to the whole of Il Trovadore (6 sides side six on the back of one, 2 on the back of 5 and 3 and 4 together). It is enough of a pita changing sides as it is without having to stop and start the platter each time.
Actually - for a period of about 3 months I never stopped the platter at all - just left it spinning all day. Didnt seem to hurt anything and I cant imagine it burned much power but I stopped doing that for some reason I now cannot recall.....
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Correct me if I am wrong but I assume you are connecting your portable CD player using one of those 2 RCA to mini din adapters. As I recall many of these do not make a ground connection for the signal. This would appear to be a reasonable guess as to why the portable CD player has no noise.
If that is the case then it implies the shielding on the RCA's are picking up noise from somewhere (RF?). I have never experienced this issue with the amp - but as I said in the email, my speakers are 91 dB/w/m and yours are 104 - so it could be it is simply inaudible to me.
I would guess adding some ferrite shields to the RCA's should cut down the noise. Also - try re-routing the RCA's just to see if they are passing a noise source (running parallel to a not very well shielded power cable for example).
I have a feeling there is a really simple solution for this one somewhere.....
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I wonder what the difference is between the IV and the VI? I spoke to a Bose rep and he said it was massive - but he would wouldn't he.
Then I spoke to a guy that specializes in repairing the model III and IV and he said it was minimal - but he would wouldn't he.
As ever - unless you actually hear the damn things you just never know.
What's funny in all of this is that the appeal of the 901's I heard was at an emotional level and yet here is Klipschguy saying the complete opposite - different strokes I suppose - but just imagine it we could bottle that emotional element.
Last night I got to listen to a pair of Avantgarde Duo's properly setup and playing like the devil. Deffinitely the best implementation of Duo's I have yet heard, but, no emotion - for me. It was the only aspect of the playback I could fault - but I think probably the most important perhaps...
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Just for one brief second I actually thought this was an end to Meagain's problems.
Ah well - onwards and upwards....
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I could do with one of those signs myself - they are building a new appartment block next to us and they start work at 8 am - even at the weekend!
Otherwise - are you sure they are aiming that sign at you? Too funny if they are.....
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Emails? I don't get no emails. Must be an option under your personal settings.
I actually find this site quite easy to navigate - the quick link scroll box at the top is a godsend.
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"Fini arrives too late in Klipsch thread"
Next:
The first words you heard this morning.
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Nokia - connecting people.
Next - the first name of the person 4th in your recent call list on your mobile phone
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Roc,
Is this a crusade perchance?
I think you need to chill a little. We are, after all, only discussing a model of loudspeaker. Interesting 2nd set of reviews you posted - thanks for that.
One of the things I value on this forum is the right to be wrong - I do not plan to give it up readily.
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How much? PM me if you prefer. If I dont want them Tony (best friend) is certainly interested as he is bidding on a pair now.
EDIT - Erik you can have first crack at these if you want - just let me know.
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Now why are you looking at these all of the sudden Erik? [
]Anyway - no idea how these sound. The best of the high power digital amps appears to be the Yamaha that I have (MX-D1) which can be bought boxed for about $2,000 - someone else on the forum has just done this (to run with La Scalas!!!! - heaven knows).
If that is a bit steep (and I know it aint cheap) I would suggest a Rotel 1080 (also 200 wpc) as an alternative. Cheap used, very reliable and readily re-sellable should the need arise. I used to have this amp - and it has the best power button of any amp I ever owned (odd but true - it just felt great powering it on). The guy I sold it to still uses it to this day - I dont think he has ever switched it off in fact.
Just a thought.....
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I know I shouldn't continue this but.....
considered " Some of the Best " .... by Who ... OB ..??
Actually by just about everybody in 1968 when they came out. The first negative review wasn't until 1971 and then Stereophile came out with a less flattering review. This was largely the start of a war between Bose and the high end industry which has continued to this day. Bose - for their part, have not helped matters with some of their other products, an aggressive legal department and massive success (which never helps popularity).
Remember many of these same reviewers pan the Klipsch sound too - and tend to recommend very expensive components that I generally find disappointing.
not by any Sound Guy, or , say Julian Hirsch
Now no - but one wonders how much of that is based upon the actual product.
you think + 50 dB EQ on the Bass ... is good practice ...??? .[
] a/ If it works - dont knock it.
b/ That was for the original 1968 speaker. Gain on the newer models is now much less as the efficiency has climbed and they ported the box from model 3 onwards.
c/ High gain EQ for bass has been used successfully to play back vinyl for 50 years or more.
d/ I cant help feeling something similar done with a single driver implementation might yield amazing results. There is a lot to be said for a crossoverless sound - despite Dean's protestations....[
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Did you Botox that dog or something?
Anyway - get the full 7 course meal ready - I am coming over with the contents of my email box. I appear to have a vertical market in Nigerians who have inherrited untold riches but just need a bank account to get to it - somehow....
You are obviously the man - I thought we might start with the smoke salmon.....
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Erik,
You have a PM.
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What I'm talking about is nine drivers all radiating the same signal, and this signal is interacting inside the box as well as interacting outside the box with both direct acoustical waves and those radiated back with a short time delay from the reflecting surface.What happens to the air vibrations produced by the many different instruments of an orchestra?
Erik
Comb-filtering and the laws of superposition can describe all of that behavior...A quick google search would provide a lot of information on the topic.
I would presume that this is also applicable to any "normal" speaker where there is more than one driver performing the same job. This list would inclue the KLF range, the RF 7, the RF 63, 83 etc. etc.
One would also wonder if this effect is not present in a live performance where sound waves are being reflected off multiple surfaces and arriving at the ear at different times - or at the same time with slightly less power?
Whilst I think it is clear that there are pitfalls to the 901 approach to sound reproduction I think there are also advantages. It is the individual listener's decision as to what compromises they are prepared to live with that should decide what speaker they eventually end up with. Remember that a Khorn implementation also carries a number of compromises. They just happen to be ones that people on this board choose to live with. I would imagine the same is true of the Jubilee clone - although I have not heard it.
Certainly, when it comes to the Jub - sheer size is an issue for many, not to mention its appearance which, shall we say, might not suit all tastes.
Obviously - this is a Klipsch forum so one might expect some bias towards that speaker manufacturer - but I see no reason to harp on about the supposed weaknesses of another brand to justify choosing this one. When I originally bought Klipsch I did so because I liked the sound more than I did from other manufacturers in my experience. That others might have chosen differently does not, imo, make them better or worse than me.
Here we have a long time member who is an owner of a variety of Klipsch product that happens to have heard and been impressed by another manufacturer - one, apparently, that dare not speak its name. He is not suggesting, at this moment, that he will immediately dispose of the Klipsch products in favour of this one, merely that he might append this speaker to the list of products he currently listens to and enjoys.
No amount of de-crying the speakers he has heard is going to change the fact that on first listen he rather liked them. He may, or may not, ultimately buy them. He may, or may not, ultimately come to regret that decision down the road. The pro's and cons of the speaker design are not really relevent now - he heard them and rather liked them and wants to investigate them further. I would guess such investigation will be based upon listening more than specifications.
To my mind the 901 - whilst obviously different from any other speaker I have experienced, does have some similarities to a composition of speakers (now that I have had some more time to digest the experience).
That they are without crossover and that they have but a single driver facing the listener does give them some traits of a single driver implementation - ala Lowther for example. As Erik has Lowthers he might be in a better position to comment on this than I.
That they have multiple drivers facing rearwards does give the sound something of the flavour of a panel speaker. Depth and spaciousness did seem particularly strong.
The equalizer is unique in my experience (being specific to the speaker - and in fact the model). In some ways this might make as much sense in a single driver implementation as it would in this one. Were one to take a single driver and to boost the highs and lows - even without touching the midrange then one might well end up with a full range speaker - or close to it.
Obviously - as a vinyl lover who is accustomed to the RIAA curve in phono stages I have less of a religious aversion to equalization than an all digital owner might have. Boosting bass response (at least) is something I am kinda used to.
Interestingly the equalizer with the 901 does not limit itself to bass and high boost - but also offers tailoring of the mid-bass sound - presumably in an attempt to moderate the speaker to better match given room responses. We can discuss the pro's and con's of that approach at infinitum but I can tell you from my one off experience that the mid bass slider makes a huge difference to the sound - one that appeared on first use to be fairly easy to "dial in".
All I can conclude at this stage is that with the amplification we tried and in the room we used what this speaker did well - it did very well indeed, and what it did bably - it did badly. In another room - with other amps and sources that picture might be very different - it might even out for all I know and be suitable for general purpose listening. True, as it happens for many speakers I have experienced, although maybe a bit more true in this case.
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Bose 901 VI
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Now that was funny!
Who,
Yes - I am interested in drivers for the 901. It seems that most of the units for sale on ebay and so on are rather old and having a ready source of replacement drivers would probably be a good idea.
Tony is bidding on them constantly now - so I guess he will get lucky soon. He has promised to lend them to me for a proper play in my system as and when.
It seems repair kits for the surrounds are readily available for reasonable sums - but the drivers on ebay in europe are fetching 25 euros each (about $33) which could be quite punitive with 9 in each speaker. As I think these are used drivers that could also be risky.
If you can find some I would be much obliged - but I would want something the same as the existing drivers - not "better" as it is possible we would be mixing and matching with some of the existing drivers to keep costs (and the work required) under control.