Parrot
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Posts posted by Parrot
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Which is worse, burning extra coal in a plant that currently runs 90% cleaner than it did 15 years ago, or the gallons (???) of mercury that will end up who knows where at this point (land fills?) as people dispose of their burned out CFL's?
Yeah, it's hilarious. I read something about it the other day, California mandating fluorescent bulbs. Only problem is, they have also outlawed the disposal of fluorescent bulbs! LOL!
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Dr.,
I think we are getting into that shocked vs. electrocuted thing again. Deaf means you can't hear. Name one great recording engineer who is or was deaf. Do you mean hearing impaired? Someone how can hear with hearing aids is not deaf.
Travis
Travis,
I think Dr. Who is talking about all the recording engineers who have taught him everything he knows, that they are deaf.
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I wonder what PWK's hearing curve was like? I would like to see an avatar graph associated with each person's post on this forum. I think this would really help people understand everyone's listening tastes and equipment preferences.
JJK
PWK was the first to admit that his hearing had considerably deteriorated as he grew old. From a Klipsch speaker owner's point of view, the Klipschorn was designed when PWK had his hearing intact, while the Jubilee was designed well after his hearing had suffered.
You really can't tell how someone with bad hearing is going to judge something. I remember many years ago when I was a teenager A-B'ing a couple of tapes of the same performance to my dad. The "A" tape was excellent and "B" had such reduced treble that it was a joke. My dad picked "B" as superior though. His hearing had been damaged from decades in an auto factory.
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The black "fiberglass" horn that PWK had in his own home, the horn that still is on top of the Jubilee that Miss Valerie has--I wonder why nobody talks about it? It's got more pleasing lines than the 402 or the 510. It's fairly similar in size to the "wooden" prototype. Once covered up, the aesthetics would be more pleasing than covering up either of the other two horns.
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Excellent catch, Anarchist. So the thing that George got was the photograph that we've all seen and he didn't see the demo of the three Jubilees at all. That makes sense.
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i got the other missing piece to your half truth, if you are interested? it ain't pretty.......
yep three fully functional jubs.....yep at a show....ces...but...oh no.....
THEY WERE UGLY BLACK FIBERGLASS HORNS........TA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
didn't get the wood horns till later and never were able to get three of the same horn from the same vendors who tried to sample it.....and those were shown but as one off's.
have a blessed day,
roy "the bad cowboy is on duty" delgado
In January 2001, this was posted here:
Klipsch showed off 14 new products at CES. I just
got back and I thought this would have already gotten all over this
site. I'm amazed I seem to be the first one posting the great tidings.
Some of this stuff is to drool about - new "Legend size" RF-7s ($2200)
(remember reading rumors of new speakers with "some of the slam and
emotion of the Legends with the detail and refinement of reference" -
could this possibly be it??), matching RS-7 ($800) surround and RC-7
center ($800), RF-5s ($1400), RB-3 ($650), three new reference subs -
RSW-10 ($1000) and 12 ($1300) and RSW-15 ($1700), an insane 15"
behemoth model that I wanted to take home that moment, if only I had a
crane to lift it (I believe it was mentioned that this unit could do
20Hz at 125 decibels with ease, but we need to confirm), new ProMedias
(2.1s and 4.1s), new all-weather speaker and a silver colored Quintet.
NOTE: all the prices are TARGET (not the discount store) US MSRP.
The
RF-7s in the blond maple and in cherry looked amazing. Would have loved
to have heard them in a listening room (even more, would have loved to
have compared them side by side with some KLF-30s!)
I hope I didn't get any detail wrong - I'm just trying to give you all the gist of it.
There
were no listening rooms, so I could only hear these on the open
showroom - and as best as you can tell in such a situation, they
sounded da%#$ed good!
Bad news - unfortunately, they won't be
available until May. Another thing - most come in three great new wood
veneers - cherry, a blond maple, and a new black cedar. All looked
great.
Even more (I'm excited just writing this - and it's 2am!)
I got to meet Paul Klipsch, and got an autographed picture of him
standing next to the NEW KLIPSCHORN JUBILEE! Beautiful unit, 12 to 17K
estimated, wood horn tweeter. Sounds like the design is complete and
they're just working on how to manufacture such an amazing and
intricate piece.
Also got to meet Bob G., Phil H, and best of
all, Trey Cannon, who was truly as nice and enthusiastic in person as
he is when you call or email him at Klipsch. In fact, all the Klipsch
people at the booth were very enthusiastic about talking about all
their new (and old) products, and were one of the friendliest booths
there.
All, in all, I was really startled by the number of new
products, and getting to see Paul W. live and see a picture of his new
masterpiece was an unbelievable treat.
I need to get to sleep
(long drive from Vegas to L.A., and I need to work tomorrow), but let
me know if you have any more questions. I'm sure some other people who
went to the show must have some impressions to share, too.
I have
simple desires - load me a truck with some RF-7s in cherry (although I
won't send the truck away if they're the blond maple!), 4 RS-7s (or
maybe a second RF-7 pair and some RS-7s) and an RC-7, a couple of the
RSW-15s (which could possibly set off the "big one" quake they've been
predicting in California), five SA-3 all-weathers (why should the
bathroom not be 5 channel too?), and of course, a pair of Klipschorn
Jubilees in another truck once they're ready. Simple needs, I say.
thanks, all
GeorgeC
George emphasizes a wooden horn. So what gives?
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poo poo was not challenging anymore.....
Challenging enough that you haven't answered my question (of course I already know the answer to it) even though I've asked it repeatedly.
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yep three fully functional jubs.....yep at a show....ces...but...oh no.....
THEY WERE UGLY BLACK FIBERGLASS HORNS........TA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
All right! Finally, some useful info. But you know what? They weren't 402s, were they? And I wasn't even there. Were they like the one Miss Valerie has in her home?
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Since any FREAKING horn will do, per Bad Cowboy, I propose:
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I love facts and I love opinions. You're still not answering the question. What Dean is getting isn't the issue.
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Okay, to summarize your take on this, Bad Cowboy, and do correct me if I'm wrong:
Since I have pointed out that the 402 looks bad and was not designed for a living room and was not envisioned by PWK for the home Jubilee, that means I'm envious of anyone who has a Jubilee and that I do not want anyone to be happy. Is that about right?
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Are you fantasizing again? Who criticized the performance of the Jubilee?
You had said, "The home Jubilee as envisioned by PWK does not exist. A bastardized rendition can be special ordered..."
Well, I don't know how else to take the latter statement. As far as what PK envisioned, how in the hell would you know? There were lower cost, unfinished versions of most his speakers when he ran the company, it's likely his vision included those of us who wouldn't be able to afford the full blown finished model. As a side note, the Jubilee in his home has a composite version of the wood horn (and black no less).
These are 'Man' speakers Paul, your preoccupation with WAF has me concerned.
Since you didn't address the performance issue, I'm going to take that as you admitting that you are not a careful reader and were just blowing smoke.
Do you think the bastardized version looks the same as the one PWK posed with? Do you think PWK thought anyone would be crazy enough to want a 402 in his living room? Even the Mad Cowboy didn't think he'd sell any. Turns out, he underestimated the number of people who can be talked into having "the best."
The AES paper is all about the bass cabinet. The completed Jubilee home version does not exist. It went to prototype. Bean counters said the wooden horn was too expensive. That's why people are using different top configurations and why you are going to run through dozens of combinations and never be satisfied.
Sure as God makes little green apples, PWK did not intend a 402 for the home.
since you've been talking to pwk here recently (i assume that that's how you know all that you that paul would and wouldn't like), can you ask him where he left my slide rule?
have a blessed day,
roy delgado
I gotta give you credit for obscuring simple issues--I guess that's what you're trying to do? PWK didn't intend the 402 for the home, did he Bad Cowboy? I know it doesn't matter to you--any old freaking horn will do, so you say--but humor me anyway. The "naked horn" you reference wasn't the 402, now was it?
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i guess what he told me doesn't count......or what we worked on together and THE goal on what he wanted....or that it has been his life'S ambition to take the khorn back to 2 way......i don't have a dog in this race.....and quite frankly don't care what you or others think......but as you so assuredly want to place words in pwk as much as keep me from quoting.....get a grip.......it is what is......facts are fact....accept IT or go oN deceiving yourselves........klipsch didn't make the jub......lots of people whined about it......the paper was on the lf......paul thought that THAT was the significant part of the development of the jub........3 months to do the hf horn.......18 to do the lf.............after reading about the bellying aching.......i said the jub (the significant part of the jub) was in existence......put up whatever FREAKING horn you want on top........and live happily ever after.....but some people just can't stand to see people happy or even content.....get over it....
dang!!!! i got serious there for a minute....enough of that!!
have a blessed day,
roy delgado or as anarchrist has called me
BOY!
I don't know about "serious" but it sure is revealing.
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Miss Valerie with a Jubilee prototype. Photo by PWK. It'd be nice to know what horn was in this one. Or maybe there wasn't one and it was just to show what could be done for the appearance.
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"Frankly, the 402 implementation looks far better to me than the funky horn Paul posed with. "
Didn't somebody (Trey maybe??) a few years ago say that was just a pretty show horn that wasn't functional?
I asked Jim Dickinson about that and he acted like where did I get that idea from? Jim said PWK had three Jubilees like that that were fully functional and he used them in a presentation, but I don't remember where he said the presentation was.
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Since you didn't address the performance issue, I'm going to take that as you admitting that you are not a careful reader and were just blowing smoke.
You said it was "bastardized", which to me suggested inferior performance compared to the original configuration. For something like the 100th time, a person doesn't have to use the K-402 horn, they can use the much smaller K-510 -- which is what I'm going to use.
Oh, I see. I've hardly addressed the sonics of the Jubilee. I mean I could do a pretty fair job, but since I haven't actually heard one . . . I guess I could read the spec sheet like Dr. Who and the Bad Cowboy.
Most of what I have been discussing re the Jubilee is the aesthetics of the "bastardized" version. While we're at it, the K-510 looks bad too, unless you plan to cover it.
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The theater version looks darned near identical, don't it?
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I think maybe the "truthsayers" need to review the "facts" they purport to reference.
Lemme see. I say the Jubilee wasn't meant to replace the Khorn. I am told this is wrong because Paul "wanted to build a Klipschorn II." Hmm, a Klipschorn II is what... a Klipschorn. It was "such an upgrade" it became the Khorn Jubilee. I don't see how it was a replacement Klipschorn. If it were such an incredible upgrade and was given a new name, it was supplanting the Khorn not replacing it - and not in agreement with the "original intention". The facts here are not in question - the extrapolation of intent and what would have happened, of course, are.
Secondly, lets review a fact from this white paper or whatever. It states - based on the performance graphs - the new bass bin is at least as good as the original. How does it go from at least as good to far surpasses, huge upgrade, on another level, and every other euphanism and exclamation which has been bandied about? Since we are sticking to facts...
I don't have a dog in this race. I think the Jubilee was an exciting development and if Klipsch (the corporation) wanted to honor Paul they would have made it even if it were a loss leader just to promote his legacy. There is nothing wrong with offering the Jub in its current form and Kudo's to Roy for making or helping to make it happen. I don't know if it bests the Khorn or not but I am eager to take up someone (thanks) on their offer to let me listen to theirs.
But lets be consistent when wanting to refer back to facts and particularly careful when trying to use PWK's name and declaring what was in his mind or his intent or what the future would have been if his intent had actually been brought to fruition.
Very well said.
The true home Jubilee will never happen, and you can take that to the bank. Even if they could sell a hundred pairs of them a year, Klipsch would not be interested. This is based on my questioning Fred Klipsch about it at Indy. I think he outranks the Bad Cowboy. If not, I'm sure the latter will pop up with a correction.
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Everyone without them seems to know just how they should sound......the people who have them can't do any fair comparisons and the guy who can do the comparison doesn't have the real thing. We are all screwed.
I'm going to Walmart. Talk to everyone later.
You nailed it, great job.
Enjoy the Mart.
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Roy, you ever notice how when you show up on a thread spewing your supposed "facts", how you manage to quiet some down?
Sure is interesting how that happens.
What, I'm not allowed to take a break for a few minutes?
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I've got to say that the level of argument here is extraordinarily pathetic. When someone says the 402 was not designed for home use, that is then twisted into claiming the Jubilee was not meant for home use.
And several of you don't know the difference between facts, opinions, and sales patter.
Anyway, my three incontrovertible statements still stand. I realize it's tempting to argue about something else, but I'm paying attention.
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Are you fantasizing again? Who criticized the performance of the Jubilee?
You had said, "The home Jubilee as envisioned by PWK does not exist. A bastardized rendition can be special ordered..."
Well, I don't know how else to take the latter statement. As far as what PK envisioned, how in the hell would you know? There were lower cost, unfinished versions of most his speakers when he ran the company, it's likely his vision included those of us who wouldn't be able to afford the full blown finished model. As a side note, the Jubilee in his home has a composite version of the wood horn (and black no less).
These are 'Man' speakers Paul, your preoccupation with WAF has me concerned.
Since you didn't address the performance issue, I'm going to take that as you admitting that you are not a careful reader and were just blowing smoke.
Do you think the bastardized version looks the same as the one PWK posed with? Do you think PWK thought anyone would be crazy enough to want a 402 in his living room? Even the Mad Cowboy didn't think he'd sell any. Turns out, he underestimated the number of people who can be talked into having "the best."
The AES paper is all about the bass cabinet. The completed Jubilee home version does not exist. It went to prototype. Bean counters said the wooden horn was too expensive. That's why people are using different top configurations and why you are going to run through dozens of combinations and never be satisfied.
Sure as God makes little green apples, PWK did not intend a 402 for the home.
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Performance critics obviously haven't read the JAES article, read most the threads on the other forums, followed all of the threads up in the technical section here, seen any of the plots, and in most cases -- actually heard them. The only thing running amok around here is ignorance.
Are you fantasizing again? Who criticized the performance of the Jubilee?
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This statement of Andy's from years ago also confirms what I posted in the now-locked thread. The Bad Cowboy seemed to deny it, though.
1. The Klipschorn is a more difficult(ie., expensive in materials and labor) bass bin to manufacture than the bass bin of the proposed home-version of the Jubilee is...from what I have seen(and YES...I gave the Jubilee bass bin a close "builder's eye-view" scrutiny when I saw them...): matchpoint, Jubilee!
Meagain's at it again
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Now why on earth would you want to cover up such a drop-dead gorgeous horn such as the 402? LOL!
It doesn't matter if you put a masterpiece painting in front of the 402, the proportions of it compared to the bass cabinet are all wrong, aesthetically speaking.