Parrot
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I take it from several post now from several people that Paul's room/system is very good sounding (maybe exceptional) so what is in his Klipschorns as far as drivers and crossovers?
Mike,
They have Al K. networks. Other than that they're stock 1976 model C. The single biggest improvement ever to my system was putting it in this room.
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OK OK. But what about green marker on the buffer?
I would like to try this, but, if I put green ink on the processor, would this maybe make it overheat? Could I use ink from a cryogenically treated marker, or wouldn't that matter?
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The way I look at it is that you already have to factor into someone's recommendation or advisory against a piece of equipment
1) his personal likes and dislikes and
2) his total system including room
and try to calculate how that would apply to your own personal situation. That's not easy but you can get a general idea based on what you know about his experiences and situation, whether or not they are similar to your own.But if you have to throw into the equation that someone may be lying because he doesn't want to hurt someone's feelings, that makes that person's advice not just worthless but worse than worthless.
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For example, when I prepare to listen I go through what could best be described as a ritual that warms me up to listen, just like the tubes are warming up to play. I change the central air system thermostat so it won't kick on during my session. I turn off all the fluorescent lights in the house, I start a pot of tea, I finger through all my records and pick out 3 or 4 from my collection thinking about my mood, I clean the record and the stylus, I turn off my phone, I dust off the tops of the speakers, I adjust the blinds for soft lighting... its all sort of like foreplay. As I do all these things I can feel myself anticipating listening and my mood getting geared up to listen. I am sure this ritual enhances my subjective experience of my listening, but I do not believe they change the objective reality of what is coming out of the speakers (well, maybe the cleaning part).
This is so extraordinarily revealing about who you are, Pauln, that I sure wish you would use it in your signature line.
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It does seem like some enterprising guy, maybe Al K., could market a top for the Jubilee bass bins. Whoever did it could use the photo of PWK with the HOME prototype as the basis for it. An individual could get by selling just a few here and there, as long as he didn't want to retire from the proceeds.
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Paul -- Roy said five more have jumped on. I think that brings the total count to just about dozen pairs over the last year. Not bad for a speaker that has no real market. I wonder how many Klipschorns PK sold in his first year after making them available. I think Roy is doing A.O.K.
It all depends on what you use for your starting point. We've been talking about Jubilees for five years I think, so you could figure it's only 2 or 3 pairs a year. My prediction is that sales will drop annually, but we'll see.
Since I know you don't want to hurt Roy's feelings I am reading a little in between the lines.
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is it better to have someone who is familiar with the equipment and doesn't like it to
1) tell you what his experiences with it have been
or
2) tell you it sounds great because he doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings who may own the equipment
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Old Buck, I guess now you're going to "pay forward" that old Porsche of yours?
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Don't quite know what to say to some of that stuff Craig, I'd like to think I'm pretty honest about what I hear. No, I won't trash something I don't care for or has lost favor with me here on the open forum. People like different things, so there isn't much point to it. And yes, sometimes it is because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings.
JC, I want to pick up the discussion about sensitivity in the other thread.
deano,
what you got.....it's called class......
have a blessed day,
roy delgado
Disagree
Experienced people in this setting have an obligation to neophytes to be overtly honest to the positive or negative.
First this is a general observation and is not directed at anyone particular!
The problem with "opinions" even by so called "experienced people" in this hobby is that very often opinions are formed and given from very limited conditions and experience and then reported as if it is a "FACT" and unfortunately alot of people are to insecure to trust there own opinions or willing to gain their own experience which would mean they have to hear it for themselves in there own unique situation.
Unintentional MISINFORMATION is spread often on open Forums! We see this all the time on forums were people declare a piece of equipment or modification of equipment as good or bad but at best these opinions are being formed in a systems/room context that is unique to that one situation. It doesn't translate to all situations yet they will state these opinions without thinking about all the variables that went into that opinion.
For Example: Room problems generally swamp most equipment and alot of speaker issues and yet very few people can or will deal with these issues yet they are declaring a speakers or piece of equipment sounds like "this or that" when really they are saying (the equipment, speaker and room) sounds like "this or that" at best.
What one should keep in mind is these so called experienced people "who might be very nice people with the best of intentions" actually have limited experience in reality and often with no or inadequate test equipment and are listening in (less than ideal) uncontrolled enviroments and anyones opinions need to be taken with that reality in mind. The need for testing shouldn't really need explaining and yes I agree testing want tell us everything at this time but it is an important piece of the puzzle which with todays Testing Programs which are at very reasonable prices should be used by anyone serious about modifying and setting up there system along with listening(which for the most part has to be the final judge).
Deans reservation about what he says/reports makes alot of since and is "very wise" based on all the variables and should be followed by more on open forums if you don't want to unintentially lead people down the wronrg path.
mike tn[
]well said miketn.....by the way,how are you and your plug ugly speakers? looks like another 5 or so, not counting deano, are joining the ranks.....
have a blessed day,
roy delgado
Let me get my calculator out. Hmmm, where's the "on" button. Okay 5 multiplied by 20 equals 100. Fantastic, if my calculations are correct, in just 20 years from now, 2027, you'll have sold 100 pair of Jubilees. That should get their attention in marketing.
NOSValves, I like the quote function. It's especially fun when someone leaves on everything that has been said before even when it isn't relevant.
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Ever wonder why PWK posed next to a good looking Jubilee prototype instead of with the nasty looking 402 horn? I think it's because he knew he'd be lucky to sell 4 pairs of Jubilees a year to diehards if he made them look like they belonged behind the screen at a cinema.
I hope you'll have someone finish a top for you, Dean, no matter what you end up with, so that it looks appropriate for a home. If you just want something ugly looking, it'd be easier to buy some Altecs.
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Now playing, Menotti's The Medium. My brother wrote me the other day: "He had a unique voice and was not afraid to be romantic in our musically non-romantic era."
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jub envy is a terrible thing to watch.......yep, yep, yep.......
What's going to be a terrible thing to watch is after Dean has the Joobs for a while, and decides to sell them to buy some LS3/5a mini BBC monitors. I trust you'll cover his financial loss?
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the good Book also says.....
don't throw pearls at swine!!!
oink oink!
This would make an interesting advertising campaign: If you don't buy our Jubilees, you must be pigs.
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Okay, here goes, Meagain, the truth:
Dean's system (when still original Klipschorns): EDIT
Craig's system: EDIT
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I would like...... Craig, Dean, Parrot describe their impressions of each others' systems.
One thing neat about Craig's system is you can actually see the sound waves because they disrupt the cigarette smoke.
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Paul, you heard my Khorns when I first got them, I don't even think I had them pushed into the corners -- pulled back out and waiting for me to find the time to do something with them. Besides, they're a completely different speaker now anyways-- they sound almost as good as the RF-7's.
BTW, I never really noticed this before, but you squeal like a downed parakeet when you're on the receiving end of things.True, I heard your Klipschorns when they sounded good, before you bastardized them with aftermarket drivers. Of course initially we had SET amps hooked up to them, so they sounded like overcooked spaghetti.
Then after we put in real amps, I was mostly worried about the high SPLs vibrating your handguns so much that one of us would get shot.
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Craig, what dimensions SHOULD a proper Khorn or Jubilee listening room be?
You work at Klipsch why don't you tell me??
I have to admit that Craig makes a good point here. Why should he essentially be writing a Klipsch owner's manual for free? He's not an employee and I'm sure he doesn't want whoever does that at Klipsch to be replaced.
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Soooo fill us in on who has the best system????
Yeah, I see how you are, asking for a favor after you've just insulted me all evening.
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So - Do Craig's LaScalas sound better than Dean's khorns? Or does Craig think so?
I am the only one on earth who has heard my system in my home, Craig's system in Craig's home, AND Dean's system in Dean's home. That means I am the only one of us three who knows what he's talking about; the other two are speculating.
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One thing is certainly true, I'll never get the vast and expansive soundstage in my room that you have in yours.
Take a circular saw to your roof and once it's gone, then you'll have some breathing room for your Joobs.
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Now Paul, I have to say in that post on the last page, Craig said a lot of things that I actually agree with.
Of course you have to say this. N. O. S. V., or should I just say B. S. is browbeating you into submission. I notice he's extremely worried about you blowing $3000--that's because that's three grand that could be going to him instead!
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Listen you little mealy worm-mouth Parrot I'll be just the one to tweak your beak...............it will be a joy plucking your feather to get to your winpy little freind Dean.
If you look at Meagain's avatar with the penguins, that is how we birds work. One day we're going to be walking in Antarctica, or even Michigan, and there's going to be a convenient hole in the ice, and . . . I'll say no more.
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Is this then really a case of khorn/jub envy?
And maybe another kind of envy???????
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Dean,
I am behind your freedom of choice 100%. I hope that you ignore the pontifications of a certain browbeating poster here (initials N. O. S. V.)--he's just envious because all he has is La Scalas in his damp and smoky dungeon workroom. Don't worry about him beating your a$$ next time he sees you if you go ahead and buy Jubilees. He's gotta go through me first.
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When seeking recommendations on new audio equipment . . .
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Opinions are different than facts. We should all be able to agree on that. All that I am advocating is that when you ask somebody what he thinks about a piece of audio equipment, he tell you honestly what he really thinks about it. You can decide how much faith you want to put in his opinion, but you shouldn't have to also figure out if he's lying or not about his opinion.