Parrot
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Posts posted by Parrot
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Way to go, Sheltie. It's a great little unit, especially for records.
We hope to see you at AKFest, Amy. I'll introduce you to the moderators.
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It doesn't crash every other weekend, I bet [
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That sounds promising. The good thing is, there is no way to go but up.
By the way, the site I linked to was created by Wardsweb (I think).
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Unfortunately I can't make it Friday night. I'm just attending Saturday
and spending Saturday night. The hotel is awful but it's handy, because
that's where the audio rooms are. If you sleep in one of their beds,
make sure to bring a sheet of plywood to slide under the mattress..
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Er, Meagain, that's not where the tubes are supposed to go [
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LOL! You remember those burgers, too, eh?
We had several Klipsch forum members attend AKFest last year and I think it's fair to say that they all had a great time.
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Every record is a road trip. Every CD is a movie
of a road trip. Not buying it, huh? OK, hope this storm blows over
soon...No sir, not buying that at all. The actual performance is the road trip.
The
analogy I sometimes use is LP = film, CD = videotape. In lots of ways
videotape is more accurate, but most people (I think) enjoy film
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I agree with Oldtimer, it's the latter, you're just losing it.
Other things are at work with vinyl besides excitement over whether something is going to go wrong.
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The ultimate dream of audiophiles is to be able to trade in their "old" gear every month for whatever is recommended in the latest issue of Stereophile. Kind of the old Playboy philosophy, who is this month's girl?
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A few of you guys are too funny! You endlessly bemoan the state of affairs of the Klipsch Forum, you want peace and harmony and beatitude, but when your supposedly guilty party leaves for a few hours, there's a page of taunting posts goading him to return. Face the facts, gents, you love flame wars, even when you aren't perceptive enough to know when you're on the losing side.
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Here is some of the good stuff...
Never mind the graph, Sheltie, just let us know what would give us the best bang for the buck.
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Wow, this is quite a thread. It's taken up most of my morning. Even though it leans a bit on the same-old-argument side, I think there is some good information here.
I would like to see the end of the personal insults, childish name calling, and sarcasm from this point forward.
Thanks
You're showing admirable restraint. You're the anti-AK.
Which insults did you find the best?
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I want the last 30 minutes of my life back that I just spent reading the diatribes in the last couple pages. Cut out the BS and there might be something there.....
You can't read just the final chapter of a book and fully appreciate the work. All you'll do is find out how it ends.
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O.K., sure, but how does that help us here and now? Anyone around here have the test equipment and facilities to do this?
Gee, I wonder who in this thread might just have the test equipment and facilities to do this? Could it be the guy who the Bad Cowboy wouldn't give any data to, perhaps?
Anyway, Dean, it's nice to see you maintaining an open mind, and not maintaining that physics doesn't exist, unlike several others, who are in denial just because they don't understand it.
It's funny because I once was closed to new ideas myself, until my mother took me aside and said, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Paulie Parrot, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." That stuck with me and I no longer try to fly away or bury my head in the sand when faced with concepts I've never dealt with before.
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I do not enjoy reading the personal attacks contained within (lately) & think it beneath you. If it is meant as humor it escapes me....No Thanks.
I don't know, did you skip the twenty, thirty, forty posts in which mas was attacked and mocked? I recall one in which MDeneen referred to him as a liar.
On a personal note, it was kind of refreshing to see a flame war that I was not the focus of, but then of course Anarchist's paranoia got into overdrive and he figured everything was my doing, as usual.
X: Straw man!
Y: Straw man!
X: You!
Y: You!
X: You you you times ten!
Y: You you you times a million!
X: You you you to infinity!!!
If we really want to answer the original question, and that is rarely done in the Klipsch Forum once you get past the first page, then the answer is, Check tubes out for yourself, but stay away from SET whatever you do.
And the other question that needs an answer is Where did the bow tie go?
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I guess this ranting has become very tedious.
For those of you who are interested, much of what is being referred to (and criticized) is work done primarily by Richard Heyser. Some of you will recognize his name as a reviewer at Audio magazine. In fact he did one of the more interesting reviews of the Klipschorn years ago. His name is also strongly associated with Time Delay Spectroscopy. He regularly published in J. Audio Engineering Society. A complilation of that work is:
Time Delay Spectrometry, softbound, 280 pages, 8.25" by 11.25", is available from Audio Engineering Society Inc
Don Davis also has an updated version of "Sound System Engineering" This uses& explains many of the ideas being discussed.
Although some of you have been gracious enough to credit MAS with inventing these techniques, they actually have a longer and more widespread history and following. Some of the researchers that MAS has mentioned (Richard Heyser, Don Davis, DB Keele - who incidentally was associated with Klipsch Inc at one time) are/were heavy hitters in the audio field. If you are attacking their thinking and work, then you are probably on very thin ice. The is much to be learned from those folks.
At one level this is an engineering & scientific endeavor. There is a great deal of math and physics involved, simply as a preliminary background. It would be nice if these things could be simply summarized, but such summaries end up being simplistic (i.e., "lite" definitions of group delay and impedance). It ends up being frustrating for all concerned. However, at many levels it not a requirement that one understands TDS, systems analysis or whatever. Nor does one need to run a TDS on Klipschorn to appreciate that it is something special. However, the idea that things can not be measured or that physics & engineering should be thrown out the door when audio equipment is being created or is being discussed is bothersome. I work as a scientist, I believe MAS is a practicing engineer. It took some effort to get there, it is not a mtter of owning some audio equipment. Doctors & Lawyers simply don't just hang up their shingle one day and practice. I am not sure what everyone's background is, but I am certain that it is probably fairly varied. Someone mentioned earlier the distinction between engineering and tinkering. I believe this is an apt one. Certainly contributions can result from tinkering - but it can also be haphazard. Having these additional tools is helpful if not crucial. Now the task becomes more systematic and I am biased I don't think the idea of doing something "by ear" (unless it is the final stages) is a systematic approach. I confess, this is my bias. However, these tools do require some homework. When I started working with digital sound, I had to learn quite a bit. You do not pick it up by osmosis or by making some lucky guesses.
Having said this, do you need a dgree in engineering, or physics etc. to enjoy audio? Absolutely not. However, should you blindly argue against something that you have not yet studied for yourself? I'll let others answer that.
Again, what is being discussed (and criticized) was developed by some heavy hitters in the field. Large parts of it I remain ignorant of. But that is simply a reason to learn about it rather than than to ignore it.
Good Luck,
-Tom
An excellent, well-thought-out, reasonable post, Tom. I took the liberty of boldfacing the line I particularly liked.
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Your continued attempts to paint everyone here is ignorant and incapable of understanding anything about the choices they make is supported by your continual "rephrasing" or simply lying about what has been said.
Speak for yourself, dude. You may think he's painting you as ignorant, but I don't feel offended.
lol, were you even in the conversation? Why would you be offended?
I was referring to the comment about attempting to paint EVERYONE as ignorant. But that wasn't what mas had said; it was just a bad paraphrase.
But anyway, I like to stay out of these flame wars. A little bird with singed feathers is a sorry sight. But I am ashamed that EVERYONE else loves these threads. You can usually identify a flame war thread even without opening it, because it'll be the one with the most pages.
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Edwin: Sure, I understand what you're saying in terms of the kind of
bass response some single-ended amps, particularly when called on to
fill larger Parrotvian spaces. D
Parrotvian. I like that, but let's use Parrotovian--easier to pronounce.
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When MDeneen calls you a liar, as he does above, you know you've hit a nerve. I predict another meltdown soon.
Sorry Paul, but Mark is right, and it's the main reason I'm not even bothering to respond to anything in his posts. He misrepresents the positions, builds a straw man argument, then of course says we're just not getting it. If I allude to crossover distortion in solid state amps, I get "see avatar".
Sorry Dean, but you're wrong. And if you look at my avatar, you'll understand why no one should use SET amps.
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Your continued attempts to paint everyone here is ignorant and incapable of understanding anything about the choices they make is supported by your continual "rephrasing" or simply lying about what has been said.
Speak for yourself, dude. You may think he's painting you as ignorant, but I don't feel offended.
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We need a FX generator for tube gear.
There are devices like that. Celebrated mastering engineer Steve Hoffman (of the old DCC gold audiophile discs fame) has a device that he uses at times, that has (if I remember correctly) 5 different degrees of "tube sound" that he can add to a project he's working on. Some tapes he plays straight, some need a "little help," some need more, and so on, up to some tapes need a "whole lot of help." The original tape is being subject to distortion every step of the way when he runs it through this tube device, but he has a large number of loyal fans who love the result of his choices, and certainly has the most devoted audience to the works of any particular mastering engineer.
The vintage tube sound that many people associate with tubes is not the normal tube sound that you get with modern designs (exceptions abound, so don't get too excited if you know of an example that does not apply).
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There you go folks, just get yourself a nice receiver from Best Buy and do some room treatments.
On the other hand, you could buy into the Bad Cowboy's philosophy of room doesn't matter, amps don't matter, as long as you buy a Jubilee.
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Vinyl more exciting?
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I think I'd be selling it then, and get 15,000 used LPs with the money.