Jim Naseum
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Posts posted by Jim Naseum
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People aren't regularly overdosing from alcohol, so it's not the same from that perspective. We have alcohol related deaths, but you don't have to worry about someone's respiratory system shutting down after "abusing" the 12 pack.
That was not my point cranky man. People need peaceful intoxication and mind experience(high,etc), but booze doesn't provide that. Drunk is not the same as high. In the social experience drunk leads to too much aggression and violence. Home wreckers for example, spouse abuse. Booze is not useful in the way historic drugs are... General rule. Lol!!! Always done exceptions. Obvious im not a believer in booze!!! Lol i think we be better with no booze and plenty of more tame drugs and even hallucinogens for some use. More in line with old history.
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mankind always used mind drugs like halucinagins, intoxicants, opiates....ALWAYS. it is a human means of coping learning..religion experience and many other things. this is why kids know this desire by intutition. if yuo take away access to mind drugs, people will seek substitute! you can not stop ity!!LOL
now booze is the approved substitute of those in power...because it is a poor intoxicator. it creates aggresssion more often than not along with some intoxication. a very poor drug for man, but very good for the power and rulers to give to little people. the reason is it creates only agression with no peace of mind. what the little people seek like mad is peace of the mind. booze is the wrong drug for that. booze creates mostly stupidness,out of control and vilence. boooze has no religion value. THAT booze tho can be controlled by cops. but peace in the mind? that's troubkle for big bosses!!! now yuo can see what is on schedule II is peace of mind...what is on schedule I is out of mind experiences. Bog boss dfon't want little peeps to have that!!! too dangerous for big boss! but really it is unstopable ....peopel will get it.
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it has to be asked: why do so many regular people (not medical patients) want opiates?
It's been human nature to seek mind altering experiences since the beginning.
!! BNGO!! now you are on to it.
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people want intoxicatnig drugs. count how many booze hounds there are!!! endless. So, is a surprise people want opiates???? LOL intoxicatin without agression!!! why people want ecstacy??? LOL think all this thru. there are big ideas under all this.
history hsitory history
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it has to be asked: why do so many regular people (not medical patients) want opiates?
unless that is understood, attempts to stop it are pointless. crooks know how to feed all these people..always have...always will. only the very naive think these new laws will stop the hoardes of desire from gettuing their opiates.
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Note: dictated to, and typed by Jessica for Joe.
Dang, Jessica! You must be really nice to do all that for Joe. Welcome to the land of the crazies.
LOL!!! my super brainy neighber looks in on me....got intersted in all myu typing....what's all this??? LOL!! she is hiop and smart as whips...
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They will get the shock of their life to no that pols and cops and lawyers are in charge of health.
I hear much of the rest of your arguments as to the system becoming a worse PITA for people who legitimately need to navigate it. I understand your point and believe it has validity.
However, blaming politicians, cops and lawyers because they are not doctors is a bit off the mark. If you let doctors write the laws and police the system, what do you think they would do differently? Let it all go willy-nilly? Anything goes? Or will they have rules? If they have rules, what kind would they be? What would they do to police all the unscrupulous doctors out there who are in it for nothing more than money and actually do disservices to the patients? Or is it your belief there are not enough unscrupulous doctors out there to worry over or do anything about?
i believe to always begin with the biggest problem first, not the flea on the elephant.
whenevr you see grosly inverted priorities in a society....look under rugs for corruption, power, moneymaking,
the new opiate laws will not stop crimnals from doing what they want to do. pure joke. It will add hassle to small people, who can't fight gigantic sysem corruption. the polticians lawyers cops care nothing about suich little people...grind them into dust who cares?. at least doctors and nurses have ethics of caring to humanity. the others? all power and money only. LOL!!! power never changes....
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Cranky, good story,tho sad to here bout you're trouble with sleezy places. Makes me lucky. I go to a large university system which is A1+ first class modern +clean, and doc is wonderful. No issues for years until feds get into medicine where they do not belong. Govermint taking over medicine is a long term danger to everyone. Most people are unaffected because they are healthy. Just wait till they get old and become ill. They will get the shock of their life to no that pols and cops and lawyers are in charge of health. Creepingdestruction.I have the highest respect fr docs and nurses...
Good luck in your future.
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It is good you care, because, as you say, it directly affects you.
Was it lawyer driven? Was it doctor driven? Do you know? Do you care?everyone has their own doctor. my docs, who have experience with opiates and pain treatment for actual patients, say, addiction is not that common, but physiologic dependence is fairly common. If you become dependent and are no longer needing opiates, you got surgery or whatever, you can begin Subutex therapy to be de-toxed from opiates. Doctors are very good at this and have worked it out very well. (how long b4 I will have to consult a pol/lawyer before ghetting care under obnamacare?)
basically we have two views here....
1. chronic pain patients with doctors managing there medical problems. seem to do ok.
2. people with no opiate experience, and no pain doctor, and no chronic pain, but who read a lot and want to tell medical community what they should or shouldnt do about opiates. in otherworlds, a typical case of politics and lawyers pretending to know best for others, but always ignoring the elephant....booze and cigaretttes. we live in an agressive alcohol fueled society designed by....pols and lawyers. a smart person - not like me - would say - hey fellas, start with booze and cigs!
The head of the FDA is a doctor, an MD. I doubt they had politicians testifying regarding at hearings about whether to change the classification.
yeah, I care because I am affected.
1. the DEA is how drugs get on different schedules, right?
pasted
The Obama administration moved Thursday to restrict prescriptions of the most commonly used narcotic painkillers in the U.S. in an attempt to curb widespread abuse.
The Drug Enforcement Administration said it would reclassify hydrocodone combination drugs such as Vicodin and put them in the category reserved for medical substances with the highest potential for harm. The "rescheduling" means people will be able to receive the drugs for only up to 90 days without obtaining a new prescription.
The opioid pills are taken by millions of Americans, including after dental surgery, for back problems and broken bones. Currently the pills can be refilled up to five times and prescriptions can cover a 180-day period. The new classification will take effect in 45 days, the DEA said.
"Today's action recognizes that these products are some of the most addictive and potentially dangerous prescription medications available," said DEA Administrator Michele Leonhart.
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2. who is michele leonhart? A doctor? Um, no. she is not a doctor. pasted--Leonhart graduated from Bemidji State University in 1978 with a degree in criminal justice,
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drugs is politics my friend. did you watch the colorado changover to legal pot? yes, therre are doctors in agencies, but rules are made by legislators, cops and lawyers.
so do I care? yes I care. I care that my health is in the hands of actual doctors, not cops lawyers and legislators with their political and money agendas.
i was on pain meds for several years with no problems of any kind BEFORE michele leonhart, a bureaucrap cop and politician changed the rules and schedules. the change? more inconvenience and insults and cost and much indignity. but why would lawyers and pols care about any that??? LOL!!! jus teasin ya~!
your chasin a fly when you should spend your time chasin the big game - booze and cigs. christ, leave the sick people alone, they have enough problems already, don't they?
The DEA does not control which drugs are on what schedule. The FDA provides the determination on the classification of drugs, the DEA implements the determination by the FDA by amending current federal regulations, or implementing new ones.
In January of 2012 the Public Advisory Committee met to consider whether HCPs should be reclassified from from III to II. That committee has doctors and pharmacists on it. Not a single lawyer or politician are on that committee. That committee has a consumer representative and an industry representitive on it. They voted 19 to 10 in favor of recommending upscheduling. From there it went to the Director of the FDA, a doctor, who approved and adopted and approved that recommendation. They then sent it to the DEA requesting that they issue new regulations. They are required to go through a rule making process, with more testimony and opportunity for public comment.
They implimented the reccomendation of the FDA, announced a New Rule" in the summer of 2014, which became effective in October of 2014.
Here is the best synopsis I could find, it happens to be by the pharmacists'association, which took a neutral position.http://www.pharmacist.com/fda-advisory-committee-votes-favor-hydrocodone-rescheduling
Here are the minutes of the Advisory Committee meeting which show who the members were and their backgrounds. All if the testimony from that meeting is available in line, it was available for live streaming at the time. All submissions are available, as well as all of briefing materials given to the members prior to the meeting.
19 to 10 is about a 2 to 1 ratio. It doesn't mean they were right. There obviously 10 members with an opposing viewpoint. In 2012 there was also a meeting to upschedule Hydocodone, this was opposed by HHS, and the vote was about 11 to 1 against as I recall.
So what changed? New data about rise in prescriptions for HCPs, overdose data, epidemogical studies, etc. At this meeting in 2013 some family members of on people who overdosed on HCPs testified, which I am sure had an emotional impact.
Hydrocodone had always been a schedule II drug. Hydrocodone, less than 15mg, mixed with other substances was a class III.
It looks to me, the big concern of the doctors on the committee is that oxycodone, including Oxycotin, prescriptions have remain flat along with production, while hydrocodone has surged over the same time period.
The facts just do not support your conclusion that the upscheduling was the result of politicians and lawyers. Lawyers, I am sure, wrote the amended regulations, but that is what lawyers do. If the committee of the FDA had reccomended against upscheduling, it never would have happened.
So if you want to paint with broad strokes, yes politicians and lawyers are to blame, for everything you find right with the country, and everything you find wrong. But the reccomendation in this specific instance wad 19 doctors and pharmacists against 10 of the same.
Travis
That's the process. My concerns are the political motivations. You can say DEA is just some "typists" following direction of doctors, but that's politically naive. Here's a quote from the director of the American Academy of Pain Management:
"Despite the efforts of the Academy’s policy and advocacy staff to suggest less restrictive alternative strategies to reduce misuse, abuse, and diversion of HCCP, rescheduling is soon to be a reality. While we remain concerned about the potential implications of this change for patients’ access to HCCP, we hope that pain management clinicians will find ways to accommodate patients’ needs with minimal disruption. Please inform us if you encounter unanticipated problems, or if you have suggestions for practices that you have found helpful in responding to the change in scheduling. And, as always, thank you for being a member of the Academy, the nation’s premier organization for all clinicians who provide pain care."
Our total drug policy in USA is derived from the global war on drugs, devised and directed by the USA. in that realm, no one is concerned about health matters of sick people. No one. The little people at the bottom of all that heap of policing are always the losers, just like this time. From prison terms to pain patients, none of this war on drugs that is about health or helping people. That's never the motivation of these laws and regulations. If health was of interest BOOZE and CIGARETTES would be the targets. Doesn't take a genius.
There is an old expression that people can not comprehend the meaning of a forest when they are counting branches on a tree.
I'm way too stupid to argue the inner detail of government rule making processes with you that are filled with legal jargon. But not so stupid that I don't understand what motivates kings, crooks, moneymen, and power mongers in any society. Just because the weak are powerless doesn't mean they can be fooled by legal snowjobs. Why? Because we can all see the forest no matter how many trees put up.
My doc is extremely wise and experienced and not a politician. She explained the great financial pressure through Medicare that is always a federal hammer. This is far more involved than is being represented here. Thanks for the discussion.
Note: dictated to, and typed by Jessica for Joe.
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digging through video archives ive been watching the 1980 pbs series COSMOS with carl sagan. half way through as of today...
1. sagan is such an impressive writer/scientist/visionary. can't think of anyone we have remotely comparable today.
2. the series now 35 years old is still spellbionding and just spectacular in every respect.
3. i get myself into that 1980 world....and then have the shock of coming awake in the 2015 world where we have done so little of worth since 1980...not enough sagans, too many generals
can't wait to watch the remaining episodes!!!!
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I am glad to see this subject brought up. As many of you know my 56 year old wife committed suicide due to long term pain & the Govt policy's to play Doctor, & no she had no mental issues other then those created by many years of pain. As others said pain grinds you down!
Peace & health to you all.
Cornman
Tragic to hear that. Yes, it should be talked about. I think people should know that government is very often an additional cruelty that must be tolerated by the sick. This latest intervention will come down hardest on the weakest... As always!! Lol.. Adding new insult to illness...on people with zero voice in the system. Polititions drunk on power and booze will profit somehow on the backs of the weak.I ain't so dumb I can't see that!! Lol!!!
The dea is keeping a lock on drugs that might easily unlock mental illness, but these cops lawyersand pols have other agendas!!! Ts all to far gone.
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everyone has their own doctor. my docs, who have experience with opiates and pain treatment for actual patients, say, addiction is not that common, but physiologic dependence is fairly common. If you become dependent and are no longer needing opiates, you got surgery or whatever, you can begin Subutex therapy to be de-toxed from opiates. Doctors are very good at this and have worked it out very well. (how long b4 I will have to consult a pol/lawyer before ghetting care under obnamacare?)
basically we have two views here....
1. chronic pain patients with doctors managing there medical problems. seem to do ok.
2. people with no opiate experience, and no pain doctor, and no chronic pain, but who read a lot and want to tell medical community what they should or shouldnt do about opiates. in otherworlds, a typical case of politics and lawyers pretending to know best for others, but always ignoring the elephant....booze and cigaretttes. we live in an agressive alcohol fueled society designed by....pols and lawyers. a smart person - not like me - would say - hey fellas, start with booze and cigs!
Was it lawyer driven? Was it doctor driven? Do you know? Do you care?
The head of the FDA is a doctor, an MD. I doubt they had politicians testifying regarding at hearings about whether to change the classification.
yeah, I care because I am affected.
1. the DEA is how drugs get on different schedules, right?
pasted
The Obama administration moved Thursday to restrict prescriptions of the most commonly used narcotic painkillers in the U.S. in an attempt to curb widespread abuse.
The Drug Enforcement Administration said it would reclassify hydrocodone combination drugs such as Vicodin and put them in the category reserved for medical substances with the highest potential for harm. The "rescheduling" means people will be able to receive the drugs for only up to 90 days without obtaining a new prescription.
The opioid pills are taken by millions of Americans, including after dental surgery, for back problems and broken bones. Currently the pills can be refilled up to five times and prescriptions can cover a 180-day period. The new classification will take effect in 45 days, the DEA said.
"Today's action recognizes that these products are some of the most addictive and potentially dangerous prescription medications available," said DEA Administrator Michele Leonhart.
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2. who is michele leonhart? A doctor? Um, no. she is not a doctor. pasted--Leonhart graduated from Bemidji State University in 1978 with a degree in criminal justice,
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drugs is politics my friend. did you watch the colorado changover to legal pot? yes, therre are doctors in agencies, but rules are made by legislators, cops and lawyers.
so do I care? yes I care. I care that my health is in the hands of actual doctors, not cops lawyers and legislators with their political and money agendas.
i was on pain meds for several years with no problems of any kind BEFORE michele leonhart, a bureaucrap cop and politician changed the rules and schedules. the change? more inconvenience and insults and cost and much indignity. but why would lawyers and pols care about any that??? LOL!!! jus teasin ya~!
your chasin a fly when you should spend your time chasin the big game - booze and cigs. christ, leave the sick people alone, they have enough problems already, don't they?
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everyone has their own doctor. my docs, who have experience with opiates and pain treatment for actual patients, say, addiction is not that common, but physiologic dependence is fairly common. If you become dependent and are no longer needing opiates, you got surgery or whatever, you can begin Subutex therapy to be de-toxed from opiates. Doctors are very good at this and have worked it out very well. (how long b4 I will have to consult a pol/lawyer before ghetting care under obnamacare?)
basically we have two views here....
1. chronic pain patients with doctors managing there medical problems. seem to do ok.
2. people with no opiate experience, and no pain doctor, and no chronic pain, but who read a lot and want to tell medical community what they should or shouldnt do about opiates. in otherworlds, a typical case of politics and lawyers pretending to know best for others, but always ignoring the elephant....booze and cigaretttes. we live in an agressive alcohol fueled society designed by....pols and lawyers. a smart person - not like me - would say - hey fellas, start with booze and cigs!
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beutiful pictures sunburn man!
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1. changing to sched II means higher cost for everryone and more inconvenience for patients. more office visits, more driving around with paper prescriptions and so on. docs will financially benefit from this. patients will suffer. criminals won't be affected by any of this. regulators always assume they are foiling criminals, but never are!!! but, you can't tell lwayers and politicians that...they live to write more laws. we need more health care not more laws.
2. as a medical patient i resent deeply having my doc make me sign a narcotics contract and submit to drug testing. these are the responses of big institutions trying now to please goverment demands. my doctor syas...."this is now required,sorry." meanwhile alkies by the millions are destroying families everywhere and killing themselves with booze, and costing the economy billions$$$ - they are portraayed on tv as having fun in bars and picking up chicks!!! this is a upside down world. ask the children who they fear more...alkies or people on opiates? my ole pappy was a big alkie and I can tell you all it aint a pretty life for kids of alkies. Wheres all the politician and lawyer interest in stopping alkies???? nowhere, that's where. that's the truth.
3. criminal docs are easy to find. look for the guy with 3000 patients and all of them are on oxy!!! LOL - it ain't rocket sciene. but instead of actual law enforcement...take it out on the patients. LOL~!!! stupid is as stupid does.
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I see how this works now. It's all about reading articles to make non doctors sound like doctors lol!!!! I ain't that stoopid!
Real doctors have patients with real medical conditions and make medical decisions best for each patient. Good doctors, good result. Iprolly won't be going to any polititionsor lawyers for my next medical consult, and if anyone here gets hurt I wouldn't advice you to either!!! Polititions love making rules for others. Its an ADDICTION they have to be experts at everything!!! Lol
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You are equating your experience as to what happens with everyone else and that is just Bull Shit11Oxycontin and opiates slow down peristalsis which is the wave like motion of the bowels to move alon the food being digested. This absolutely can and does cause constipation QUITE FEQUENTLY.sTOP POSTING ON YOUR OWN LIMITED EXPERIENCE AND TRY USING A SEARCH ENGINE TO EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE POSTING!Roger
Correct! eat right....drink water....no problem! This so-called constipation problem is posted by people who are not on longterm opioids but wanting to make a nasty case. Never in 5 years did I have constipotion!! For those who don't eat right, and eat piles of crap junk foods, they get COLACE prescribed!!! LOL...All you have to do is properly hydrate.
I always ask, what's your experience with opiate? Some are offended and refuse to answer. Here's why I ask... Pain clinic teaches people about constipation and they provide excellent advice to easily avoid the problem. Advice is eat right, drink lots of water, and if needed use Colace. That's the MEDICAL ADVICE PAL. it's not something I made up. If you had seen pain specialists for opiate, they would also give you that lesson. See? It's not just my experience, it's the medical standard advice and it works!!! Lol
So all these people here with no personal .opiate experience make absurd wild claims about things they no nothing about like huge constipation issue. Sure, if people won't follow medical advice lots of bad things happen.
I might be stupid but my doctors are highly regarded and know they stuff. I trust doctors to know about my medical treatment not lawyers politicians and cops and government dudes. Everyone agrees that when lawyers try practicing medicine they f###k the pooch. Obamnacare for example!!! Lol all lawyers!!!!! For some reason they all think they know more then docs.
Anyway... I was not making my own limited informationformula.. Iwas citing the medical consults I've been given. I assume they didn't just give it to me, but others as well. Go to your pain doc and ask about constipation.... See what he tells you.
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May I first ask you.....
Have you been on a morphine drip???
Have you taken opioids for months at a time???
What's your actual experience as a sick person with deep pain?
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Wow.... Are you talking from experience???? Lol!!!
I have been in hospital on morphing drip and went home with no addiction!!! More than once!!!! Lordyt lordy man!!!
You are spreading nonsense with no actual experience!!! Sorry man but it's true !!! And no one I no suggested selling opioids at corner store!!!! Lol! Crazy!!! Fearspreading is no answer. These scare comments are crazy man!!!
If you have cryonic pain, see experienced MD!! If you want to talk about what criminals do, they abuse many drugs and that includes booze and opioid and lsd and grass and heroin and many more.
Misuse of drugs???? Go arrest BILL COSBY!!! LOL BUT for god sake don't blame sick people THST need pain medicine!!!
I should shut up.... Not smart enough for this convo!!! Lol!!
All in fun.... No ofense ment by me!!!!! Ik just talk stoopid!
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I take a total of 45mg of OxyContin a day. I'm approaching the end of my second month. I'm not noticing any tolerance issues yet,
fyi...i have taken 45mg/day for 5 years wit absolutly no changes......no issues....works grate!!
Except your spelling and grammer are a little f*cked up LOL
Mark
agreed,,,,im as dumb as a rock, my pappy use to say!! LOL!!!
Im just gald I was just bearly smart enuff to know that oxyconton is medicine and booze is for recreation! LOL
you had a qwite a story their!! musta been painfull. u no the drill then! LOL!!!
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All you have to do is properly hydrate.
Correct! eat right....drink water....no problem! This so-called constipation problem is posted by people who are not on longterm opioids but wanting to make a nasty case. Never in 5 years did I have constipotion!! For those who don't eat right, and eat piles of crap junk foods, they get COLACE prescribed!!! LOL...
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Well the same agency posted this:cdc - OUR GOVERMENT agency for this says:
paste: Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 – 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. The economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2006 were estimated at $223.5 billion, or $1.90 a drink.3
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soooo.....when facts are in, booze is the nasty killer drug. but hey, no stigma for boozehounds, huh?
http://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/PainkillerOverdoses/index.html
I think ODing on prescription pain meds is going to carry a stigma, unfortunately a lot of times it carries the stigma of death. I don't really see a difference between the alcohol and prescription pain medications. They are both legal, one with a prescription, the other if you are above a certain age. With alcohol there is about a 10% chance you will become addicted/dependant, based on genetics and some other factors.
With opiates there is a much higher percentage of people who become addicted, or dependant, without regard to genetics, or other factors.
Dont see difference? LOL!!!! Try this.....opiates are for sick people. It is medicine. Booze is not medicine. Howz that for a difference? Booze is for FUN!!! A drug for fun. Oxycontin not for fun as a purpose...does that mnake it more clear for you??? LOL!!!
You seem to not know the diff between sick people withj health problems needing opiate medicine, and people who criminally abuse various drugs like alcohol and opiates. Sick people are not criminals and not the problem here. LOL!!!!!!!
Funny how people view the ill, the weak, those in need of medication....ain't it? But boozing up? No Problem!!!
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cdc - OUR GOVERMENT agency for this says:
paste: Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 – 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. The economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2006 were estimated at $223.5 billion, or $1.90 a drink.3
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soooo.....when facts are in, booze is the nasty killer drug. but hey, no stigma for boozehounds, huh?
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i read it to fast-----and saw...
IN THE MARKET FOR GOOD USED WIFE
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OxyContin and other addictions...
in Lounge
Posted
So very tragic,vry tragic. Very brave for you to tell story here.