FloridaBoy
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Posts posted by FloridaBoy
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My big ben 4 ~6 watt SET did not have enough to power to reproduce bass notes as well as a 25 watt p/p amp.
The curiosity is killing me. What is this 25 watt push pull EL84 amplifier?
In case you did not get it from what I wrote previously, Quick Silver horn mono's. TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR...they sounded great. but $2,000 better than the yamaha rx A1030... not so much. If I did not have the yammy 1030, the horn mono's are keepers!
AND the fact that I have the Yamaha RX 1030 is accidental. I had been wanting a Macintosh or Pass amp. I never thought I would have the money to buy one, and in fact did not ( at the time) . BUT i needed an amp. I looked on CL and this 1030 which I knew nothing about was for sale brand new used less than a week. I offered the guy $400 and he took it. I connected it to my ( new to me) lascalas and it sounded good. Thinking that tubes would sound better I saved up and bought the Big Ben. Since that is a buy it and you keep it, I kept it. Although it sounded a small bit better than the 1030, again it was not worth the money as far as sound improvement goes.
Then, 2 yrs later, I got to listen to khorns. I was blown away by the improvement! BUT NOW the BB 6 watt SET just was not enough for the BASS when comparing to the yamaha 1030. So now you know the rest of the story.
This thread lost me. Do you still have the Quicksilvers? If so, what 12DW7/7247 and power tubes are you using? Your preamp may not be optimal for the Mono's and that may be why the 1030 sounds good....the preamp section is matched to the power section. I have found, over the years, that a preamp and amp from the same manufacturer is they way to go. However, there are always exceptions.
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Joe
Dennis quoted me somewhere around $2300 for his 45amp/preamp combo. I believe the preamp for this was based around the vintage 76 tube, he is big on bringing back older tube types into his new circuits. I passed as regardless that my KHorns can run on as few as the 2 watts the 45 provides it is my feeling, and my ears, that they sound better with bigger power, much fuller throughout the spectrum.
Please don't hold me or Dennis to this price as I believe I got a "discount" for being a past customer and we were just discussing the possible project.
The best bass I ever had was with a Korneff 45 using EML solid plate tubes. You would never have guessed it was flea power. ;-) The 45 in the right rig is amazing. Dennis is using the 27 tube in the LP 27a preamp.
A pic of mine is attached. I did not get the 45 amp but got a SEP amp built on the same chassis.
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Isnt firebottle a tube based guitar effects pedal?
Yep, I found that when I googled it also. I guess Dennis Had doesn't have a web site.
Dennis Had calls his amplifiers "Inspire" and has recently added the Fire Bottle reference. Dennis seems to primarily sell on eBay (radioman731) when he completes an amplifier, similar to Bob Carver (audioshopper) selling his hand-built amplifiers. I believe he also takes special orders for those that have contacted him by word-of-mouth. There is also a headphone amplifier on Moon Audio running 6SN7, 6BL7 or 6BX7 output tubes.
http://www.moon-audio.com/dragon-inspire-iha-1-tube-headphone-amp.html
Here are a couple of pictures to show the Fire Bottle references above.
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I have a single ended pentode Inspire built on the above chassis with the similar 20 watt transformers. I also got one of Dennis' LP27a preamps. Wonderful combo. Any of these amp with Heritage speakers are excellent.
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Yes Joe, his amps are built to order.
I do know this much, JPX. ToolShed amps are pentode, not triode.
Single ended pentodes can sound mighty fine and tube rolling will not break the bank. The one you ordered can use 6V6 and 6L6 variants. *I* like the 6L6 family. You may just be floored at how good it will sound. BTW, the new production Tung Sol 6V6 is a superb tube. Ditto for the new Tung Sol big bottle 6L6G...it's really a GC. I've used them in a couple of similar amps and prefer them to many old stock tubes. Looking forward to your impression of the amp.
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Very nice Maynard! The 6Y6 is a fine tube.
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A Japanese 300B integrated for $1000. I posted the link hoping for comments on the circuit. It also runs the 300B very conservatively and there are positive comments on the transformers, that can be purchased separately, on DIY boards.
I just found this link about the Softone amp. The Japanese are to be admired for their philosophy of turning mundane things like amps into an art form. Although this amp is circuit board based, it is beautifully done, and the circuit is actually quite sophisticated in spite of its overall simplicity.
http://softone.a.la9.jp/english/Model8/M8-eng-2.htm
Here's one of their hard wired amps which, judging from the under-chassis pic, is beautifully built as well:
http://softone.a.la9.jp/english/Sv811-3/SV811-3.htm
For the price of the Model 8, I can't imagine one could do better in terms of the apparent build quality. Of course, I don't know how it sounds; but, I'd be willing to bet that it is very nice!
Maynard
Sorry, Florida Boy. Just realized that I posted the same link you did
When I have some spare change for toys I will get one...just because.
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Here is a cool link that I posted in another thread: http://www.hifilit.com/ However, here in SW Florida the pickings are pretty slim. Be sure the check out Mad Magazine does Hi-fi.
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I have been using tubes for a long time and have a good collection. Many were bought on the auction site over the years. However, I am finding that the auction site is not what it used to be. If you purchase used tubes there only buy from a seller that tests them and offers returns. There are not that many good examples of well regarded tubes available and if you are new to this a solid online dealer may be the best option. You'll pay more but should get better quality.
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I think you nailed it Maynard. I just bought a single National Union VT229 that, according to the seller, tested new but it is so microphonic that is not listenable even with tube dampers.
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Maynard,
The vintage amps have a cult following and can be very good if restored properly. However, they are no longer the bargain they were and cosmetically excellent examples are hard to find. IMHO, they have become more of a collectable than an every day user. Some folks may disagree and that's fine. I am not bashing them. I had a Pilot 240 that I wish I never sold, charming sound but I won't look for another. The Cayin amps are very well made and have modern 'vintage' circuits. Better parts, modern RCA's and speaker connections etc. The Bob Latino ST-70 is a much improved version of the original Dynaco and is a very fine amp. I would take it over a restored/modified original. Bob also has an improved PAS preamp.
There are many small builders here in the USA and Japan that make outstanding products. The best tube gear I ever had was a Shindo Cortese amp and Monbrison preamp. I also had proper speakers and sources.I bought it used and it cost me $500 to enjoy it for a year. It did not sound vintage but it conveyed music in a way that was riveting. You did not want to do anything but listen. I don't think I will ever own anything 'better' and that's O.K.
System synergy is the key and that can be achieved with vintage or modern electronics.
BTW, I kinda like tone controls and miss them.
Link to some 'modern' American vintage: http://www.tubes4hifi.com/TN.htm#RC The Ray amp looks sweet!
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The Havana could be veiled and I'd never know it...until I heard something better.
I did change the coupling caps to PIO's and that was a nice improvement. The Metrum is certainly reasonably priced and well received. Once I get computerized I may be looking at DAC's again. -
LOVE this thread since I only recently was smitten by the TUBE phenomenon while checking out SS in audio shop. A salesLADY (noteworthy since I am also a lady) demoed a MC275 with a C22 for me, and I realized that this was the sound I was searching for - which I had not found in the other SS.
Problem now is that I am overwhelmed by choices. . .
Gotta have a digital section, so there's the C2500, but I much prefer the "retro look." So, now trying to decide - do I go with the MC275 and the C22 and add a D100? It becomes overwhelming. . . so I keep reading and studying and learning until I can make an informed choice. . .
But that tube sound. . . wow, unforgettable!
The MC275 is a great amp BUT if you are driving Klipsch speakers 75 watts is, IMHO, overkill. You may want to look into 'classic' McIntosh equipment if you are smitten by the sound. Just Google classic McIntosh as a start. Then try to listen to a few pieces. You may be even more enamoured.
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Dennis really seems to be enjoying this new 'hobby'. Attached are pics of the amp and preamp I purchased. The TS 6AR6 is excellent and inexpensive.
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Thanks. I use a Havana too...still have not found anything I like better. I hope to be on a computer soon.
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Dennis Had, founder and former CEO of Cary Audio, is building single ended amps and selling them on the auction site. This is his retirement hobby. I bought an amp and subsequently purchased a pre amp. No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer. My amp has 20 watt transformers and uses one pair of 6V6's-KT150 by running different rectifiers. Input tube can be a single 6SN7 or 6SL7. 5-12 watts depending on the output tube used. The pre amp uses a pair of 27 triodes, 6BX7 cathode follower and a 80/5y3 rectifier.
I have owned a lot of gear over the years but these offerings are outstanding and affordable. They perform well above the price point. I am driving Heresy III's.
I brought my amp and preamp to a friend’s house that has modified Klipsch La Scala's 104db. Only the bass bin is stock. The Inspire gear was dead silent. Started out with Penta Labs KT88's, nice. Moved on to Sylvania 6L6G's. Very nice but I liked them better with my Heresy III's. Up next were the Pope 6V6GT's. Here is where it gets interesting. I forgot to change the rectifier and ran them with a 5Z3/5U4G instead of a 5Y3/80. Without fanfare this combo was absolutely wonderful. Huge soundstage..blah blah blah, etc. My buddy was floored, so was I. We then used the LP27a with his 45 and 2A3 SET amps. I preferred the Tom McNally 2A3. The 45 was a Korneff clone that had not been run for a year so it may have needed some more time to get settled in. The Pope/5Z3 combo was not in the least embarrassed. It was that good.
6V6G ST shape 6V6G's must use a 5Y3 or 80 rectifier. The Pope's are 6V6GT and can be run with a 5Z3/5U4G, 274B, GZ34, GZ33 etc. I was not sure of that until it was confirmed by Dennis.
Long ago PWK said he wanted a great 5 watt amplifier. IMHO, these are a great match for Klipsch speakers.
Google Inspire amplifier for reviews etc.
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A bit off subject but to the general topic in three decades working in manufacturing/engineering I can say without hesitation that cryoed cutting tools, regardless the material being cut metal, paper etc. tooling was much more durable after being treated. Although a relative expensive process it was easily documented the additional up time vs. cost was worth the expense.
And yes I have a few tubes, ac outlet and cable that are cryoed. Do they sound better? Don't know but having seen the process proved in other industries - why not?
I have read posts on other forums and cryo does have positive effects with toosl etc. One wood worker said with cryo plane blades no sanding was necessary. I have used cryo new production tubes and can't say if it made a difference.
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Maynard, I agree 100%. The Sound City documentary was produce by Neil Young as is very interesting, insightful and worth watching. Some pretty good performances in it too. You can get so obsessed with this hobby that you forget it's about enjoying music. Been there, done that got a T-shirt.
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Referencing the original performance is only possible if one attended it, and the perception of that would vary with where one sat. Then, there's the question of whether it is really possible to recreate an original performance in one's listening room. Perhaps so with a small chamber ensemble, but a full orchestra in Carnegie Hall?
Two forks in the road. Artto's point about accuracy was in reference to the recording of the event. Not about what you may have heard at the event crammed into a corner. The best you can do is reproduce the recording as accurately as possible. People with experience know what a piano or a violin etc sounds like in person. If you go down the path of it's just not possible to reproduce the live sound down the chain then I can see where people justify screwing with everything to make it sound like they like it. So pick your poison. Obviously the person recording the event should make every effort possible to be true to the sound. Search Mallette and his thoughts and experiments with recording.
I'm not sure that any of us have a system that can re-create Carnegie Hall event. I am sure that most of the recordings produced today are not true and are compressed. That said, the last thing I want is a straight wire with gain. Theory is fine but listening is where the rubber meets the road. Great audio gear is a mix of art and science. There will never be enough recording engineers available with the skill and knowledge to capture a live event. I have been to live events that sounded awful and would not want a recording. PWK, said long ago that we needed better quality recordings and a good 5 watt amplifier. Just the way it is.
I do not expect my system to mirror a live event. I do want it to draw me into the music. Why do Rudy Van Gelder's recordings sound so good? Or Steve Hoffman's re-masters? Are they accurate? To chase perfection is noble but futile. My 2 cents.
P.S. Watch the documentary about the now defunct studio Sound City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_City_(film)
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I owned the Softone 300b integrated some years back. It was OK, nothing exceptional. Could have been the mediocre tube set that came with it, I didn't see where mega $$$ 300b's would be worth the investment for a "just OK" sounding amp.
I had the older model too, bought it used, and agree but it also may have been the tubes. I probably should have rolled some driver tubes.However, this model is a totally different design. I had the Model 4 phono pre until I quit vinyl and it was simply excellent and a good value to boot.
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Steve Deckert explains his take on why SETs sound so good on the Decware website. Basically that all instruments produce even order harmonics, except a couple of percussive instruments (like a xylophone) which produce very complex harmonics. Even order harmonics tend to reinforce the fundamental note, and odd order harmonics are detrimental to the fundamental note. SET amps also produce even order harmonics. You loose some of that with a PP, and solid state produces odd order harmonics!
I have no electronics training, and no musical talent and I have to rely on my ears. What I am hearing for the first time, is instruments that sound absolutely real and the notes and ensuing harmonics of each instrument sound true from attack to decay.
Here is the big difference between SS and tubes that I have noted: When I sat down for some critical listening with my SS hardware, I would find myself doing other things (very uninvolving). When my tubes are lit, I can't even get chores done as I find myself sitting down and enjoying music for hours on end.
Isn't that the point of this pursuit? Well, for me it is. Simple tube circuits and efficient speakers do it for me.
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A Japanese 300B integrated for $1000. I posted the link hoping for comments on the circuit. It also runs the 300B very conservatively and there are positive comments on the transformers, that can be purchased separately, on DIY boards.
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The audiophool industry has everyone thinking there are magical components out there that will drastically change your gear.
Funny, it seems that each side of the "argument" in the audiophool industry sure like to throw up their own strawmen in trying to validate their respective positions.
The ABX crowd will focus on the outlier aspect of “greatly improving the sound” cannot be validated through the use of what I believe to be poorly constructed ABX tests. In my limited experience, I like to disregard and disqualify the outliers or extreme points of view and when I hear the assertion of “greatly improving the sound,” I find that the assertion usually means some aspect of the amplifier design is crap or poorly implemented, and not necessarily an imaginary improvement. Personally, I like to find a better well-engineered circuit design and overall over-built build quality using the appropriate high-quality parts over trying to massage the sound through expensive caps, cables and power cords.
Overall, I suspect that corporate goals caused the development of vacuum tube amplifiers to stagnate during the 1950s and eventually give way to solid state because the vacuum tube technology had reached a point of “good enough” for the consumer with no real financial reason to improve upon. Not really much different than consumer products today.
It really wasn’t until the very early 1990s when it seemed that we in the United States started to witness some original thinking in vacuum tube amplification. Of course, Jean Hiraga was one of the early proponents during the late 1970s and 1980s of single-ended circuits and direct-heated triode tubes but with the way the audio review magazines took a turn in the US in the way reviews were conducted, it took a while for this original thinking to filter to the U.S. For those curious about the history and want to read articles where I believe that DHT started to gain traction in the U.S., track down old issues of Glass Audio, Vacuum Tube Valley and Sound Practices.
Whether a person likes the Cary Audio amps or maybe a person does not like the Cary Audio amps, it doesn't really matter for this post as I believe that someone like Dennis Had, founder of Cary Audio is a real pioneer in DHT SET in the U.S. since he was able to build a brand on the back of the 300B DHT tube in a single-ended circuit.
Fast forward to today and it seems that many of the commercially available DHT designs are not well-engineered and just seem to be thrown into the market in an attempt to meet the “good enough” criteria. I’m not sure that many understand the importance of the power supply, the input stage, and the driver stage in a direct-heated triode design. So many of the commercial designs today seem to have under spec’d power supplies and seem like crap where the driver stage is concerned where the driver stage will introduce more distortion than the DHT output tube.
It's not easy or inexpensive to produce a good 300B amp. This one looks interesting and it's direct coupled...no capacitors in the signal path. I have their now discontinued Model 3 CD/player/transport and it is still going strong. http://softone.a.la9.jp/english/Model8/M8-eng-1.htm
I was considering it but opted for one Dennis Had's single ended pentode amps. I'm not disappointed.
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Question for some of the..... more experienced in the crowd....(older)
If you go back to the 50's/60's/70's (I'm not sure which era is best), did people still fret over which cap to use or which wire to use or which (brand) of tube?
I grew up pretty much on the tail end of the tube era. I recall the service guy coming out to fix the tv and putting a little tube in there and that is about it. When I was looking at electronics, the 'new & improved' was the solid state and you could buy a used McIntosh for what seemed to be nothing.
I have this view of that era of someone simply grabbing a cap off the shelf to fix something. Need a new 300B? Go to the store and get what's on sale. Need some speaker wire? What is "speaker" wire? Go get some of that lamp cord wire and all is well.
I wasn't there so if people were neurotic about things then like they can be now, I wasn't old enough to witness it.
So I ask, were people as neurotic then as they can be now?
Have a look here: http://www.hifilit.com/Mad/Mad.htm Somewhere in the Klipsch stuff, on the main link, PWK was complaining about the quality of recordings. How shocking.
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Be sure to check out the Mad Magazine goes Hi Fi. Nothing has changed.
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Japanese Made Elekit TU-8200DX Tube Amplifier
in Talkin' Tubes
Posted · Edited by FloridaBoy
I have a Triode Corp TRK3488. A $1200 kit I bought assembled for $900. I used a pair of V-Caps in it and they are very good but $300 for caps in a $699 kit may not be cost effective. You may want to try a pair along with a pair of different caps. Just sayin'. I think caps make a difference but the most expensive are not necessarily the *best*. The Jupiter HT Copper foils are very good too and will not break the bank. BTW, I am using the V-Cap Coppers from the TRK paralleled with a Vitamin Q in another amp. The only way to find out what works for you is to experiment.
That looks like a nice amp for an intro to tubes though.