jkull
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Posts posted by jkull
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Comparatively, i see the DECWARE ZP3 as a better buy to the phonos listed above. There are no SS components, is a true SET and transformer equipped design, and can do MM and MC if by any chance I ever opted for a MC cartridge. $1295 new, could probably get the 10% off black friday deal still.. and they pop up used not to sparsely if watched. It is also very visually appealing to me. It will be mated with a SET amp, so mine as well keep it SET if I can. As of now, that is what I'm considering.
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17 hours ago, TubeHiFiNut said:
The separate tube phono stages that I have direct experience with are:
Quicksilver Phono Stage Preamp
EAR 834P
Audio Research PH3
The Quicksilver is $1,595 new and you almost never see them on the used market. A truly excellent phono stage that can hold its own against more expensive competition.
The EAR is available used for around $800 - $900 and is a classic. As with the Quicksilver, the EAR can play in much more expensive company.
Be aware that there are EAR 834P clones sold by Douk for ~$350 on the auction site that look almost identical to the real thing. Folks who have heard them state that the sound very close to the real thing. Whether this is, or is not, for you depends on how you feel about what is basically a direct copy of another designer's work. You can also buy DIY boards and build your own.
Not sure about current used prices for the ARC PH3? It sounded a bit forward for my tastes and my preference is for the Quicksilver and EAR.
Hope this helps and YMMV.....
The best EAR deal i see is $1450 right now. $2500 new, so its a good deal. Above where Id like to be of course. Unless if I have no other option for all tube, and quality..
17 hours ago, TubeHiFiNut said: -
20 minutes ago, mkane said:
For a bit more than a C note you can build this and it's awesome. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/another-super-high-end-phono-stage-no-expense-spared.371889/page-16
Thank you for the recommendation. I know it is good experience and fun to do, but I rather not diy at this time. I'm looking for plug and play my friend
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I have another recent thread regarding my recent purchase of a pair of 1980 horizontal cornwalls. I have a Line Magnetic 219ia on the way which should be arriving monday. Now what I need is to locate/select a good MM phono amp, as I was using the phono in my marantz 7701 which I will no longer be using in this setup.
So my chain will be:
Line Magnetic 219ia Integrated SET Amp (utilizing the preamp as well)
Cornwalls
Audioquest speaker from amp to speakers
VPI Classic 2 TT w/ Soundsmith Zephyr 2 High Output Moving Iron Cartridge (MM)
3FT Blue Jeans RCA's from TT to phono, and have a pair of audio quest meter length RCA's to run from the phono to the amp
So I am looking for recommendations. I suppose I am open to SS or valve, but I think Id like to try a valve phono.
I want a decent phono, but I do not need a diminishing gain, soaked in snake oil phono. Id like to keep the budget under 1k.
The DECWARE ZP3 tube phono looks nice. SET, no feedback, $1295 with 10% off right now. So its at the top of what id be looking
to spend... Looking at around an 8 week wait right now, which I could 'live' with. However,
there may be better options for the money and I could use this forums generous guidance and advice. Thank you!
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Got some updated photos today of my integrated being boxed up for shipping, after passing its testing stage. Really looking forward to this thing. Should I use the 4 8 or 16 ohm taps with my cornwalls? Or just try each?
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6 hours ago, mkane said:
With no toe in your taming the highs and I'm surprised tour tonearm will track anything being out front in between
The tt won't be there permanently. Of course not. This is just at the moment. There is very little if any vibration reaching the platter as odd as that may sound. I know I know. Between the floor at the platter you've got more separation than meets the eye. These tables are very well built in their isolation design
i had them toed. They didn't need it at all, put them back flat against the wall again which solidified the bass response even more and the highs are reaching me just fine. I find myself turning it up a bit louder in order to get attack and dynamics during heavier music. Once it gets there it sounds great. The sound is a 'wall of sound' and very live compared to the cm10's. The bass is just excellent.. really excellent. I keep pulling for albums with distinct bass tones and I'm enjoying hearing how well they are displayed and voiced through these 15's.
Im hoping the Lm219 maintains good bass drive, but opens up the sound and dynamics a bit.
I feel as if after having speakers in this large of an enclosure, it could be hard to go back???
how else can I say it. As a long time bassist guitarist and drummer, obsessed with tone and amps and such. This setup through the cm10's didnt necessarily sound like real bass guitar. It sounded like bass.. yes bass, warm, and rhythmic, but not like a lifelike bass guitar, where as the cornwalls are excelling at this wonderfully....I feel like I am hearing bass out of one of my bass guitar cabs my my basement!... in a good way
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On 11/17/2016 at 1:55 PM, muel said:
The only "proof" I need is in the listening. I am capable of imagining there might exist a few or many SS amps that would bring me as much bliss as tubes but I have already arrived at a happy place with my tube amps. Tubes going bad has been extremely rare (one rectifier) for me and power tubes have lasted many thousands of hours. I can happily move to fixing more pressing issues such as improving my room, tweaking speaker and seat placement. Perhaps I could have arrived at a similar state of happiness at less cost. I know I've saved a ton through the sharing that occurs here!
These "My dad's boat is better than your dad's boat" type of arguments get old.
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24 minutes ago, Ski Bum said:
Those Emo amps do sport high gain, but I don't think that's to blame. High gain would result in the amplification of the noise floor (hiss), where it seems you're experiencing a ground loop issue (60/120 hz hum).
Yes I have a humm/light buzz
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25 minutes ago, TubeHiFiNut said:
Agree with muel. I run my La Scalas full range.
@jkull - In my opinion, run your Cornwalls full range with the Line Magnetic amp. Get things as simple and direct as possible and evaluate your system on that basis. Once you have your baseline system sound, then you can add the electronic crossover, amps and subs to biamp.
That way you will know if biamping adds or detracts from your overall enjoyment of your system.
Yup I hear ya. I like the idea of trying to simplify things. Thus why I went to an integrated SET amp.
Will follow up
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So I've set the cornwalls to 'large' and dropped the subwoofers crossover to 40Hz. I am enjoying what I'm hearing at the moment. I DO have hum. My pre amp has its volume gauge on a 0-98 scale. Once I get to around 40 or so the hum is pretty audible.
I assume this hum would likely disappear once I swap line magnetic integrated in replacement for the marantz 7701 which has a lot going on with all of its video processing stuff and features for a 2 channel setup, and these two large emotiva monoblocks which do have high noise ratings... thoughts?
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1 minute ago, richieb said:
When I owned Corns and Belles at the same time and would substitute one for the other I thought the CW's were dark, dead sounding in comparison to Belles. So much so I thought something was astray with the newer Crites crossovers that I sent them to Bob to be checked, all was fine. From that point I lost my ears for CW's. Depending on the listeners frame of reference speakers can take on a different impression than to those who listen exclusivly to one speaker only. I doubt there is a thing wrong with the new CW, give it time to adjust. You may find they are not your cup of tea at the end of the day.
I'm thinking they're probably fine. Very dark! However honestly, without forcing it or trying to make myself like something, I found myself wanting to listen last night. With my cm10's I didn't feel that. I felt like I was being attacked or something. The cornwalls are a more inviting sound.
I am about to plug my pre up to a monitor and do two things. First off, have i still have 'bi-amp' enabled, as I was running my amps bi amped with the cm10's, and second I may set the cornwalls to 'Large' as the cm10's were on small..
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6 minutes ago, wdecho said:
Lovely looking and your are absolutely right, they should not sound dark or not dynamic. Just the opposite. You do need to do some detective work.
I have NO idea....
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Just another shot of them in my foyer
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14 minutes ago, pbphoto said:
Are the tweeters working? Were you able to audition them at the previous owner's home and if so, how did they sound there?
Yes they're working. Yes we listened to them at sellers house and I don't recall thinking they were dark. Smooth. Not dark. Very revealing and natural, more dynamic maybe even. He is moving and had most of his Lp's already packed up.
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Well I've got the cornwalls home and setup. Hooked up to my emotiva mono blocks and marantz 7701 for now to test them out. They are 1980's Horizontal Cornwall 1's.
First impression- I expected them to maybe be shrill or a bit bright with my SS amps. Polar opposite. They are very dark, almost a 'blanket over' effect. To be honest, they are FAR more listenable than my cm10's were, with my other components. The sometimes buzz sawing guitars and highs through the cm10's are gone. These sound extremely smooth in comparison. The bass has more character, is more present, and is more defined. From album to album I notice the difference in different bass tones which I sometimes lacked the ability to do with the cm10's. It's as if they artificialized the bass. My ears adjusted to these a little, and they were great for late night low level listening , (till 3:30am last night). They are dark though. Very dark. Not as dynamic. I'm surprised about that? I thought these would be very hard hitting and dynamic, and a little bright. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that. There is nothing fatiguing about these in this setup. I am just wondering if my dark sound is the result of the speakers being more sensitive thus I am hearing my other components and the marantz is a darker sound so that is what I am hearing.
Perhaps these 500watt SS mono's do not pair at all well with the cornwalls and things will becomes more dynamic and 'alive' once my big SET amp is driving them instead?
I have listened to exclusively to records so far, which is a VPI classic 2 with soundsmith zephyr 2 through my marantz phono.
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Getting the thread back on topic...
I was going to pickup a pair 3 hours north in NY but happened to come across a pair only a little over an hour away that are in excellent shape. Cornwall 1's. Will be picking these up tomorrow. So happens to be driving his with a Line Magnetic 845 amp as well!
a photo of them..
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1 hour ago, wdecho said:
The 45 tube is the cleanest,clearest, in the room with you singer, active device I have ever heard. With our speakers it's minimal power is adequate enough for most. This is the difference that stands out to me from other amps.
The 845?
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21 minutes ago, wdecho said:
When it comes to vocals tubes rule. As a friend of mine said after listening to my best SS amp and then my 45 amp using Linda Ronstadt with Nelson Riddle orchestra, "it is as though a blanket was lifted from the vocals. The argument in this thread will never be settled with words. It will take listening with music. With some material I would lean towards a good SS amp over a tube but if I had to choose only one amp and get rid of my other 20 amps it would be a tube amp. This is with my choice of music in my retirement years with my modified LaScalas. I have built 5 of the Firstwatt offerings and presently still have 3 of them besides many others but they are considered my best SS amps. I also have many tube amps both PP and SE among them are a SE 45 amp and a SE 300B. I would say the majority of all my amps will produce very acceptable sound. I do not think any of the better offerings of amps would be bad choice with our speakers. It comes down to what you are expecting in an amp. Most differences I hear in my better amps is subtle differences.
If a blanket is lifted from the vocals, it is also lifted from the other tracks on the recording as well, as Im sure you know. Some people focus on vocals in pieces that are vocal driven and thus notice this more. Part of that blanket lift is a boost and density in the mids. My 500w SS mono block amps through my B&W towers that I just sold, had horrible mids. Part of why I'm undergoing this transformation in my setup. I listen to a lot of heavy music as stated above, and nothing is more important than mids in heavy guitar driven music. Possibly in that genre more than any other. People who play in or have played in bands will understand this likely. Often time it is a boost in the mids that is needed to cut through the mix, not necessarily a boost in volume...Mids are what is most important to me. I had an over abundance of bass, and enough treble, but mids that did not cut through properly, in MY room with MY equipment, at least..
This also applies to the videos above.. Notice the presence of the upright bass especially while being bowed.
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Ive read over the past few comments. I can say in my experience thus far, the tube driven setups I have heard have been more pleasing to the ears.
Here are two videos. Same speakers, and room. One room has the manufacturers latest mono tube amps and the other room has their SS amps. They did this to get a tube vs SS opinion. You can clearly hear the difference through even watching these videos. Listen to the bass. Far more realistic when being played arco OR pizzicato style, and I would know as I play an upright bass myself.
The displayer of these extremely high end products, states that the vote has been 50/50 thus far in his sampling, and then makes a joke stating that what he has learned is that 50% of the population is deaf lol. If you can't hear the very noticeable difference in these two videos, you must have sub par hearing or an innacurate idea of what these instruments sound like.
It is clear that the displayer and listener both prefer the tube room.
Try to take notice of how you hear the 'wood', and the proper resonance coming from the body of the upright bass. The SS room is not producing this as well. Its quite noticeable.
And no this is not an end to all point being proven. This is one set of videos of one brand of amps. However, they are high end and very precise demonstrations of valve and SS amplification, and I know which one i think sounds better very early in. Take a listen!
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21 minutes ago, TubeHiFiNut said:
Well said.
With all due respect to those who would tell me what I should and should not like, that overbearing air of superiority does get really old, really fast.
Please remember that the only person I have to satisfy with my system is me. And in 40+ years of audio as a hobby, I prefer tubes.
If anyone prefers something different, I think that is wonderful. Whatever prompts you to listen to more music.
This will be my only comment on this particular subject.
Now, back to talking about tubes and La Scalas and Cornwalls.
Did I happen to state that I really like 845 based SET amps on La Scalas?
Is that right? What 845 SET amps have you heard on them. Would love to know. Thanks!
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1 hour ago, ATLAudio said:
"I have a soft spot for tube amplification in my long experience with guitar and bass amps, as in that world, there is no comparison, tubes take the cake in all ways."
For the purposes of musical PROduction, tubes' inherent advantages, softer clipping at distortion simply sounds better than solid state comes into play in ways it should NEVER come into play with REproduction. Since so much electric guitar and bass production is done at distortion it's a very good idea to go with tubes; in production. It's also the ART that is being produced. A musician could prefer an amp with a hole kicked in it and now it sounds perfect!
"First off, i have done a few tube/SS comparisons now."
Were your comparisons ABX and level matched? Probably not, I haven't either, but you can read about those which are. Tube lose all the time. Google machine.
"a low wattage tube amp matched to them should enable enjoyable-low level listening"
As would a well made SS amp of either low or high power, and cost less, or even way much less. At a later day you could also take the high power SS amp and crank it up. I think I know where you're coming from, and this sounds like a rehashed argument which I mentioned before. Up until the 70s the amount of crossover distortion, especially at low wattage made SS sound inferior. This argument has gone the way of the first dinosaur. Well made SS don't suffer from this. It kills me that this argument won't die! It's like telling me I still need to buy leaded gasoline.
"no combination of amp/pre amp/source/speaker etc, will do every genre the best."
Disagree on all but speakers. Assuming everything is of well-made quality your speaker (selection and placement) should account for any audio taste variation. This is especially the case when you bring a well made, rock solid flat SS to the table which costs less, lasts longer, etc
A few of you are suggesting the la scalas over the cornwalls.
The Lascalas are fully horn loaded and provide the advantages you said. The Scalas will more likely demand the need for a sub, but some say it's fine without depending on room and placement. For me, I'll always have subs
Its not a rehashed argument. I enjoy the insight and discussion! And I do take acknowledgement to your logical points indeed. I did not have two system running side by side with the same components in the chain, level matched, no. I have ran a tube amp in comparison to SS in the chain, in the same room. There are some tube amps that sound more like solid state, and some that sound more lush etc, often due to the shortcomings of their performance coloring the sound. Sometimes in a nice way, sometimes not.
1 hour ago, Ski Bum said:Well, that just depends. Tubes done right, or at least conforming to prevailing engineering norms, are remarkably indistinguishable from solid state power. Bob Cordell used to do these sort of comparisons at trade shows like RMAF. When level matched and unclipped, nobody could reliably pick tubes from ss! Of course, such tube amps are costly. And what's the point if it costs an arm and a leg and sounds the same? I think that's why many of us like the more "hair shirt" designs like SET, because they indeed do sound different, not to mention simpler, easier to build, and far less expensive.
QuoteI am leaning towards the Line Magnetic 219ia at this point. 24w per channel 845/300B combo SET. Steve Huff reviewed this amp and claimed it as the most impressive amp he has ever heard.
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Thank you to all of the above responders.
I will collectively place my responding thoughts to several above comments. First off, i have done a few tube/SS comparisons now. It 'seems' to be clear to me that my ears prefer tubes. In regards to audio jewelry. Ill be honest, yes, my eyes prefer them too... And this does help. I have a soft spot for tube amplification in my long experience with guitar and bass amps, as in that world, there is no comparison, tubes take the cake in all ways.
I desire a setup that sounds good at low levels. While a chunk of my listening is aggressive forms of music, I enjoy low to moderate levels usually. Between the ability for the la scalas and cornwalls to both sound fantastic at low levels, a low wattage tube amp matched to them should enable enjoyable-low level listening. I do also listen to a lot of cello work, arco bass work, jazz, and female vocal driven music. Obviously some characteristics of listening are desired more with these sorts of music as opposed to heavier music. I understand that there is always a compromise and that no combination of amp/pre amp/source/speaker etc, will do every genre the best. I am okay with the highs being a bit rounded or some smoothness over-ruling all out attack in presentation.
I have heard la scalas at this point. However, I have not heard cornwalls. Honest truth. A few of you are suggesting the la scalas over the cornwalls. There is a nice pair of all original raw birch la scalas available, about 20 mins away. The cornwalls id be getting, will require a 3 hour drive each way. A bit of a hassle I admit. I realize the horn loaded bass of the la scala provides tighter, and faster bass. Im rather unsure at this point as to between which would be my best route honestly..
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Unnecessary as I presume this thread to be, I wanted to get feedback for my own confirmation and assurance. I am in the process of converting my 2 channel system to tubes and high efficiency speakers. Thus I decided on large klipsch speakers for many obvious reasons. I started with the idea of cornwalls, with some advising for la scalas. A nice pair of la scalas became available locally but I opted in the end to go for cornwalls for the 15" bass driver and lower frequency capabilities. This is because I happen to also listen to a LOT of heavy music as well.. Crustpunk, sludge, speed/thrash metal, power violence, hardcore, etc. Thus having a 15" cone I feel will suite me better and possibly alleviate my need for a sub any longer. I am planning to pick up these 60's earlier version vertical cornwalls (100bd) tomorrow... Anyhow.
I threw a thread up on audiogon forum for input on my two selected possibly choices of tube amps. This may sound silly, but Ive got a dude or two questioning the pairing of these tube amps with cornwalls bc of the high sensitivity and impedance curves. Ive got others on there stating that the cornwalls should make a wonderful match with either the Line Magnetic 219ia or mc225 (the amps I'm considering). Meanwhile I heard in person a line magnetic 216ia through 104db la scalas just 2 weeks ago and it was great. No hiss hum or unwanted additional noise in the signal, which one individual on this thread claim may happen. And meanwhile I realize that the majority of people running these heritage klipsch speakers are doing so with tubes... Is this a completely ridiculous worry? I know tons of you run your cornwalls, khorns, lascalas, fortes, belles, etc, with all different SET and PP tube amps.
This individual is concern act the impedance curve creates by the cornwalls may lead to an underwhelming sound quality. If this is an issue with cornwalls, or something others may have encountered, i would like to know. Would lascalas with a sub be my better route, or do I need not worry at all??? I do appreciate any input here...
QUOTE:
"One more point I would add relates to the impedance plot for the later version Cornwall II that is shown on page 12 (pdf page 14) of the paper I referenced in my previous post. It can be seen that the impedance varies from around 5 or 6 ohms in much of the bass and mid-bass regions, to more than 20 ohms throughout most of the upper mid-range/lower treble regions, and to as much as 75 ohms in parts of that region.
Given the relatively high effective output impedance of nearly all tube amps, and the wide variation of effective output impedance among different tube amps, what that means (assuming the earlier Cornwall II has similar impedance characteristics) is that interactions between amplifier output impedance and the speaker’s impedance variations over the frequency range will very likely cause a given tube amp to sound significantly different with this particular speaker than with many other speakers, that have significantly different impedance variations. I have made that point in a number of other threads in the past, with respect to other proposed amp/speaker combinations, but I would expect it to be particularly true in this case. And the author of the paper makes similar points on pages 19-22 (pdf pages 21-24).
So that is a particularly important reason why if at all possible it would be desirable to audition the candidate amp(s) with the specific speakers you will be using. The amp's intrinsic sonic character is only a part of the story."
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20 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:
Did I hear someone say get the La Scala's??? Forte's don't hold a candle to La Scala's.
My only concern was the low end. I do also listen to a lot of hardcore/punk/metal/crustpunk, and was just a bit concerned than a cone bass driver might be better as on the forte. I just pictured the forte producing chunky bass that could possibly enable me to pull my sub from my setup as it reaches to around 32hz while the lascalas as i understand have their beautiful midrange, and fast, accurate bass, I'm afraid they might lack it overall..?
Phono Amp Recommendations
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I checked them out online but did not dig too deep on that, thus did not realize this. Thank you. The decware can be had for about $400 less than the quicksilver. I didn't see any used quicksilver phonos available when looking. The $1450 asking price on the EAR may come down a bit however putting the price option right around the new decware cost...