Camplo

what in the heck does THD measurements have to do with confidence other than if one was confident in his product, he would be very transparent lol.....Your approach is not very scientific....more like a groupie

Are you guys serious....did I not quote the person I was talking to? wow As for a speaker copy consortium...I wouldn't go that far....More like a bunch of cooks who analyze other cooks recipes.....replace cook, with loud speaker engineer....whether hobby or pro.....I take it you don't study loudspeaker design? its very fascinating if you are into science and love loudspeakers....

Well we definitely agree here lol We design our own so no worries 😉

"This design" was referring to the jubilee...

I first spoke of 20-30 and the designer said thats not realistic... I know better and so do you I guess. Its the idea of being conservative... no such thing as too much headroom

You understand how transient peaks work... you are obviously mistaken it with average.

You cant reverse engineer a speaker by looking at Fr and thd alone lol!... I make enough to buy my own pair of Axi2050s, so my paygrade is fine lol I can look at the damn thing and copy it... its not complicated once the design has been made obvious. The K-402 is designed already... just buy one... or design your own constant directivity horn using Ath4 lol.... you can design a a woofer horn/cabinet like the jubilee in horn resp I think 🤔 I'm sure you're familiar with those programs, they are free ☺️ The design isnt super complicated... its smart rather, or clever... but not rocket science, if you are familiar with loudspeaker design.... big if lol

measurements don't tell you how to build something.... it just tells you how something performs. The measurements I'm talking about at least... like Thd. Thd is no more special than sharing frequency responses. If you dont share frequency response data of your tweeters... thats pretty weird lol if you want a bass bin like the jubilee design a bass reflex cab with woofers and port, on the front face, down the middle... place a folded horn of sorts in front of that..... things are much better when you can simulate them.... I think hornresp can sim this as it can sim paraflex which is similar but the backwave is tuned 1/4wl and exits into the "front horn" by the mouth instead of next to woofer, like in the Jubilee with its Helmholtz resonators... there I figured it out...I could build one and just test it right? Sounds like some fun for the future but I dont want to do it... sounds like work lol rather just view someone else's measurements lol!!! this design is kinda like La scala with a BR port firing into the line along with the woofer. Pretty clever if no ones done it till now....

Theres a large large group of loudspeaker enthusiasts who cant wait to see such information... obviously loudspeaker design is not your passion... but as a speaker nerd of sorts, I find such information to be very interesting, especially measurements from such a large system like the Jubilee. Its sorta like how a car enthusiast knows the horse power, torque, curb weight etc etc of all his favorite cars.... lucky for him car manufacturers don't hide such info... a salesman who doesnt know the answer to "how much horse power" will say "just use your ears"... an educated car buyer wants to see some detailed data.... whats the gear ratio of 2nd gear lol! and there's absolutely know fault in wanting to know! It would suck for the car enthusiast to have to buy a camaro and a corvette and a pontiac gto just to know what the specs are.... or if their favorite make releases a brand new model...and they have the old model... but now all a sudden the manufacturer decides they won't publish specs anymore.... so you can't compare hp/torque to what you already have. But quite frankly.... no... I did not know that only one pair has been issued lol. Sue me. The Strauss mf 2.1 is an elusive speaker when it comes to measurements... its been around for a long time, still no one has shared or had a pair for a thorough review. The best speaker thats never been measured lol! Ever hear this saying? "Measurements don't lie....ears do!" we'll see how it works out, won't we!

well this isn't the forum known for designing speaker systems so I could see how it might be unfamiliar to the end user.... Asking for measurements is not trolling....Its really strange for you to insist it is. Closed mouths don't get fed....I don't know what I can get until I ask....imagine me googling something and someone like you comes along saying....."why are you googling that....you shouldn't google that"......weird lol! A very silly thought! Do you know how much a pair cost? Imagine just buying one to measure it lol..... I've read performance specs of way more speakers and speaker systems than I will ever own. Theres lots of sources that are dedicated to such data....The 2nd gen Jubilee hasn't made it to any of the sources that I know of...If I keep digging I may find what I am looking for....if anyone has shared it that is. I've stated several times that the Jubilee design is pretty awesome....So your complaints of me dogging them are not holding water....I cannot tell you what to do....but if you don't post in my thread any more. I'm ok with that.

Blueprints is an exxaggeration but this picture is good enough for me....Its just a BR box firing into another line section. Kinda hard to mess up.....Hornresp can possibly simulate this....most of the work would be surrounding the midrange and the cutoff of the front section...whatever resonante note you ended up with could be remedied in the XO. if the picture is true to scale and those are 15"s....the pathlength is what, 51"? If I'm not mistaken, the bends in horn will cause a low pass filtering somewhere.....

Did someone patent the Paraflex yet? its almost the same but not lol.... Patent or no patent....if I want one, I'll just build it myself lol.

I have seen pictures of the blueprints on the net.... One thing just popped into my mind though.....For sure the horn is not tuned to 20hz....I employ you to research how big an actual horn tuned to 20hz actually is btw.....we are talking 1/4wl tuning btw...BUT, I just was thinking about what to call the horn if not a traditional 6th order BP, or even untraditional.....on some level we can view the BR vent into the rest of the front horn, as a mass loading of sorts? Like a mass loaded TL but instead of the smaller section of the line at the end....its at the beginning? So of course the front horn isn't loading in the low but it still serves as a "mouth" or "waveguide" of sorts? Obviously a great design judging by the impression its left. All the bass comes from BR section, no less than any other BR....in this case the output of the BR is given further directivity and increased source size via the front horn/waveguide......Maybe the best BR design eva!? You can take the path length of the front horn to the mouth and find the matching quarter wavelength to discern cutoff....ballpark....likely a higher number considering the expansion of the line. If the BR section is tuned to 20hz, that sounds reasonable...In my experience, low tuned vents give the best Sound quality.

Is it in common knowledge, the model of the woofers? The thiele specs? Xmax? anything?

lotta post....still no measurements though lol

That does make sense.... Can't be held to what you never claimed lol! Some companies still share it though.....Genelec is a little more transparent than other companies for example.

They are very nice speakers thats for certain! As I said the rear vent is just a bass reflex....The horn absolutely is not tuned to 20hz though. The BR section is described to operate from 35hz to 80hz.....No where in the patent does it say what the cutoff of the actual horn section, is...... I forget that the BR section is faced into the front horn....Pretty cool design though

Eventually someone will....Erins Audio corner has a large list of models that have gone under the microscope....Jbl m2 made it to his table even....Just a matter of time Literally any Jubilee owner with a measurement mic and a free program called Room eq wizard can take useful measurements. All it takes is for one to share.....people do it all the time lol! How far would you go to satisfy potential customers? Its kinda strange that manufactures hide this stuff tbh......if its sooo good....why hide? lol I shared the Rew measurements to my Axi and my woofers..... Think someones gonna send a hit man? lol! with a little bit of info regarding the woofers I could probably model the woofer cabinet in Hornresp I would think.... I am more interested in the k-402 horn using the Axi2050.

How many high spl THD measurements has he shown? Likely non..... Hiding measurements is as sketchy as it gets. In the very first post of this thread I shared my high level thd measurements....If he's here not to share as openly as I did, whats the point? To state opinion.....this whole thread is based on raw measurements not someones opinion. I see a lot of talking but not measurements.....half stepping Salesman - " It sounds amazing!" Engineer- "All thd is under 1% at 90db....heres a Rew file taken at 1m at 90db so you can see the details for yourself" See the difference? I go more for the techinical side of things 😃

That graph is an survey done by Meyers....I think they are likely reliable lol....about 20db headroom seems enough for most material according to that chart. But this is why measurements are so important.....to weed out the opinions show the raw data....

I'll have to take your word for it, until I read the material you shared..... Little thought experiment....if the front horn is tuned to 20hz whats the rear tuned to? 20hz as well? Thats not whats usually done....If you are suggesting that the front horn is tuned via quarter wavelength tuning I can almost guarantee that you were lied to......a 20hz 1/4wl horn wont fit in most peoples living room!

I've been apart of many many forums in my time and I've never done that. No reason, just seemed extra....You could jst ask me if you'd like Axi2050 on a 150hz elliptical tractrix Acoustic elegance td15m with a pair of td18H+ on the bottom in a PPSL. Using crown cts amps for the moment. Plan on using a Audio Lense for Dsp eventually but for now the amps have a Usp4 input cards with 36 or 24 band eq. I agree with you sir..... I am here for the 2nd gen Jubilee actually lol

I highly doubt the front horn has been tuned to 20hz... they may have changed the rear vent from 40hz to 20hz... which makes more sense than what you suggested. Roy invented 6th order bandpass? Also, the rear vent is a Helmholtz resonator, if I'm not mistaken...

Theres old timers at work, they say they still learn new things everyday 😃 I think the ideas of 20-30db crest factor reside from sources with low average....like a quiet section of movie? Average might be 70 then a loud event happens, know what I mean? In the music I listen to......I am seeing more 10-15db over average.

If you have used the Dats V3 you'd know that certain information is needed for it to function properly....You'd need Mmd, piston diameter, or similar. The most accurate method (added mass) cannot be done period...I'm not putting putty on my Axi diaphragm... you? DatsV3 won't tell you xmax or xlim, those are the very important to the process....I have a lot of the information filled in by now. Some came from the video on the Axi found on youtube...Some guy in the forums got ahold of the engineering info and passed the theile specs around. At the moment I have been relying on thd measurements and my ears, to guide me to a proper xo over point.