Rockets

I have a question on the frequency response curve of both. The JBL 2404h I can see on the JBLPRO website, but have yet to find one for the K-77. Has anyone seen one? How does it compare? Most importantly how do they compare to the ear? Reason for me asking is I have yet to purchase either. The JBL's are much more expensive and I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet and get them, or stick with the less expensive K-77's? Thanks for the help.

Thanks Rob. The more I read, the more I see just how much I 'don't know'. It looks like I'm at the cross roads of a long and expensive journey! I've been tempted to take the easy way out and buy a used pair of Lascala's (and may yet before this is over), but what I really 'want' (note don't "need") is a pair of highly efficent speakers that sound as natural as feasably possible. (I know, another fool off chasing the Holy Grail) Right now I have some 80's vintage Altec bookshelf (large) that sound pretty damn good for what they are, but you can't push them. I mean to say they lose separation at volumes I shouldn't be listening to anyway! Overall their sound is 'balanced', not bright, not tinny, but do have to supplement their bottom end with a sub. Actually the vocals are rather clear. So much that on one occassion I had a party where the guest in another room had to go into the listening room to see just who was singing! I guess it was the beer, as they were expecting to find a live body! (guess you had to have been there) As far as your problem with your Heresy's, I'll face a similar issue with these Altec's! Too many speakers and not enough rooms! I'm probably leaning toward building a set of modified Lascala bases. I've got a friend that's a pretty decent furniture maker, so playing with a few exotic veneers is a probability. More likely than not I'd keep the K-33, though I'm tempted for the price $36ea to try a pair of Emminence speakers that are 4 ohms, but supposedly are similar to their Delta series. This clearing house has them, got them from an insurance claim in "Arkansas" for a "speaker manufacturer"...HMmmmmmmm! The K-77 and K-55 are up for grabs. I can't afford the Altec 311's so may have to settle for the 511b's. Would like to marry them to a set of 290-16's, but if the price is right for an ePay K-55 driver I may buy now and regret later! The K-77 I don't know what to do. Finding a replacement tweeeter that's spec sheet is ruler flat or finding a way to subjectively listen/compare other Klipsch tweeters to the k-77 w/o having the saleman run my *** off for wasting his time... So I may end up keeping the k-77 as well. RE: "Beware that most "subwoofer" drivers have lower Fs (system natural frequency) and greater extension, but the tradeoff is low efficiency and a larger enclosure. This would involve a more drastic redesign." I know you are correct in this, it just seems counterintuitive that them more air you can move the less efficent it would be. I guess I need to look at it like it takes a lot of horsepower to move that air instead. The crossover, well I'll just cross over that bridge when I get to it. (sorry, couldn't help myself there!) Seriously, there seems to be an ample amount of usefull info on that subject, and some very knowledgeable individuals that I can hopefully get help from when the time comes. I know these speakers won't be 'perfect', but I'm sure will be a significant upgrade over my present 'bookshelf' speakers. Rob, thanks again for your input. I do appreciate it.

Rob, thanks for the input...I was afraid as much on the Klipsch spec's. Honestly, I'm a little afraid to use them as 1) I haven't heard them and 2) some have described them as "bright". Though there is no perfect speaker, brightness bugs me! My project, is still in the 'kicking around idea's phase' at the moment, while I search for affordable pieces parts. Hopefully to create something with them will come later. Followed by becoming a pest on this forum begging for help when through my ignorance I FU!! Q-man has me intrigued to say the least! I can't do a Khorn base, but a Lascala is feasable. Finding a decent mid, tweeter and Xover to make a Lascala on roid's is the next trick! I'd love to hear what he has! Maybe now is a good time to set me straight on the K-33 vs. K-43. I've read conflicting posts as to the k-43 woofer. All ahve agreed it can handle more power, but how low can it go in a Lascala base? One post has stated the k-33 would go lower, while others have suggested the k-43 would be the best bet to use if one planned to open the dog house, seal the entire back, and dual 4" port. Which brings up another question! (I'm thinking out loud here and exposing my ignorance) Why not use a true 15" subwoofer driver with a limited range of 25hz to 800hz or so to replace the k-33 if the crossover (and box design) cuts off the K-33 at 400hz anyway? Seems to me that it's a waste using such a full range driver, when the mid horn is taking its place. I haven't done an extensive search, so finding one where the spec numbers match or exceed the K-33 may be easier said than done. Damn I intended to write just a few lines here...sorry! Rockets

Anybody know the specs, or graph on these tweeters and (don't laugh) how they may match up against T-35a's? I know these were part of thier lowerer end Synergy series, but that doesn't mean they're crap either. Obviously the dispersion is wider, but that's not a bad thing either. Is there a website similar to JBL's where you can see the spec's on past and present Klipsch drivers? I've found some info on the t-35a, but not a damn thing on the K-97-KV. I've read where some feel the JBL 2404h is far superior to the T-35A, but so far that's not a cost effective option. Thanks for the help. Rockets

Just an update and word of thanks to all that have responded. Note that I screwed up ROYALLY in letting a set of t-35's slide for FIFTEEN dollars. On the flip side I'm amazed at some of the MO'rons bidding on eBay. Example: Someone is selling a pair of new t-35 diaphragm ...Top bid so far is over $80. The funny thing is the same guy has another auction, for the same thing, w/"buy it now" option of only $44.99! Actually, I kinda feel like a moron for screwing up! Damn. Sorry, got off topic...just struck me kinda funny. Glad to see P.T. Barnum's theory still holds water. Mean while the search for parts goes on... There's a set of K-33's for $1ea that need to be reconed on ebay, if anyone has a DIY link for the cone kit. It's the only way to do it, otherwise shipping kills the deal. here's the link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2557315083&category=47095&rd=1 The same guy also has some dead K-43's. Thanks again, Rockets

Johnnyp, I just looked at the Magnum chart and it SUCKS!! LOL!!! http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/speakpro/mag15lf.htm It's funny how some things may look good on paper, but... I'd rather stick with the K-33 if that's as good as it gets! Seriously, I do appreciate the help!

Thanks Tony and Jonnhyp. Tony where did you find your Atlas PD-5's? I did a search and came up empty! It's becoming more clear I may have to stick with the K-33 or K-43. Just trying to save a buck finding an alternate. There seems to be a mix of opinions on the bass response of the K-33...I just find it hard to believe that there is not a alternative available! Any opinions on using a JBL E145? It's 8 ohm, so I guess I'd have to add an L pad to match the impedence. The Xmax is in line, but the Qts and Qms are much lower (read other opinions where this is a good thing, but not sure!) http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/eseries.pdf There's a ton of e-140's on ePay, but the Xmax is out of whack. Don't know the Vas:(( Thanks again Rockets

Wow! LOL! I'm going to have to calc this out when I have a few more minutes and can do the conversions from mm to inches. I've found several specs for the K-33 posted, but not all totally agree. Which to use, which to use... One has the Xmax rated at 8.20mm while another may only be 4mm. In either case there is a 2X to 5X increase to factor in vs. the 1.6mm advertised by Eminence. Also to weigh in is Eminence claims that they have been historically very conservative in their Xmax figures. I need to run through your formula to find the end result. If I can get in the 20% ballpark, or change the opening dimensions to match I'll be happy. Really I'm more concerned about sound 'quality'. Supposedly the Kappa's are being sold as an 'upgrade' replacement by a vendor well known to most of you I suspect. (though PE has it for less) Still there's a delta of $60/pr for the Klipsch originals. May not seem like much until you add in all the other drivers etc. SPEAKING OF DRIVERS! Does anyone know of an equivalent to match the K-55? There is one place that offers an unknown for $79 ea, but w/o more info I'm kinda skeeeeeeeerd. I know there's a pair on ePay, that some one is mighty proud of (or I'm mighty cheap!). Any other known manufacturer & p/n??? Thanks again for the history and engineering lesson! Rockets

Thanks for the confirmation and info. I never really knew how they were really made. Rockets

Can anyone I.D. the magnets on these? Are they ceramic? Alnico? I think I read where the square ones were ceramic, but I can't remember. Another question I have is on horn lenses. What's the difference between a K-400 and a k-401? Dimensionally would either work the same in a Lascala clone? Finally, what about using a E. Kappa 15C {specs: Power handling: 450 watts RMS * Voice coil diameter: 3" * Voice coil inductance: 1.05 mH * Impedance: 4 ohms * Frequency range: 30-2,500 Hz * Magnet weight: 80 oz. * Fs: 36 Hz * Sensitivity: low of 97db@400hz to a high of 105db@1500hz * Vas: 9.8 cu. ft. * Qms: 10.60 * Qes: .31 * Qts: .30 * Xmax: 1.6mm * Dimensions: A: 15.16", B: 13.77", C: 6.125".} in place if the K-33? Anyone know if sonically this would be a mortal sin? Ths specs seem to be in the ball park of a K-33, but the sound may be another question. I'm just now in the process of figuring out what it's going to take to build a pair, but fear it's going to be cheaper to buy them used. The offset there is finding an 'affordable' set that shipping won't kill me on. Tia for the help, Rockets