sberger
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Posts posted by sberger
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If you really want the best, non bright version of SP you'll need either an original UK copy, a mono reissue from 82, or a Blue Box reissue. Those are are the best. Japanese mono from '82 or '86 are also very good, albeit a bit more on the bright side. Nothing else comes close. I haven't heard the latest vinyl reissues but long time collector friends have are uniformly not impressed. BTW, the latest mono cd from the box sounds very good on my system, and not bright at all.
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You're right. Haven't tried it yet. Having too much fun first with the 14 watt UA-1's, and now with the 25 watt(feel that bass!) W-5M's. At some point will get my 55 watt W-7's in there. That should wake up the neighborhood.
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Not the Cornscala. Still have to determine if I want to go that route. Tweets, mid, woofer and crossover.
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I am the new owner of a speaker that I have lusted over for awhile. These are from 1971, Walnut Oil finish and they look absolutely stunning. They've had pretty much all the Crites upgrades done to them. Got them by trading upgraded Fortes and a Fisher 500C receiver but had them delivered by the previous owner so a great deal as far as I'm concerned. And I've still got 3 restored Heathkit amps(UA-1, W-5M, W-7) and a Fisher 400 so not going to miss the 500C. And because these go against the walls in my rather small living room, my wife is actually ok with them as we now have more floor space available. Score!
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Does the pre's phono stage have adustable gain? If so, turn it lower. Or, you could always trade in your Dyna high for a low output version. As far as SET's, I've used amps from Decware that are very good(decware.com).
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When you guys use big power, how far on the volume knob do you go? And how big is you're listening room?
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You're kidding, right?
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I have a pair of Crites modified Fortes that up until about a month ago was running with a 6wpc SEP tube amp. I have a pretty small listening area, and I could get it pretty loud to my ears. But for various reasons I decided to try a vintage Pioneer SX 737 receiver(35 wpc) with them, and I have not looked back. The extra power has brought out bass in the Fortes that I never heard before. 9-10 o'clock on the volume control is plenty loud, anymore I'd be afraid of blowing out the windows. And the 737 is very tubey warm.
So I'm interested in what type of power other folks use with their Fortes. Can't see how one could use much more than the 35 "vintage" watts that I am, but maybe you are. I'd like to hear about it.
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17 wpc would be fine, and you should be able to get very loud, unless you're in a huge listening area. I use a 6wpc SEP tube amp with a high gain tube pre for my '87 Forte's, and they are plenty loud. And my ears aren't so good being a 51 guy who has been playing and listening to loud music for most of my adult years. And the Forte's really took off after upgrading my crossovers and tweeters. Really an amazing speaker.
Beats me how a 45 watt amp would "barely" make it, because cranked those speakers should be blasting.
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I have a pair of '87 Forte's like you, and I strongly advise you to replace the crossovers. I did with crossovers built by Bob Crites. Amazing improvement. I'm sure others will chime in, but if you like these speakers now, you won't believe the improvement.
Good luck.
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I have a pair of '87 Forte's and they're fantastic. That said, you should do a search here about replacing some of the original stuff inside. Crossovers would probably be a good start. There are a couple of folks here that can supply new ones that are regulars here. I had mine replaced by Bob Crites, and they're simply an amazing speaker at this point.
Power sources is important to consider. In general, Klipsch speakers, especially the older ones, seem to better with tubes than solid stage. The Forte's are very sensitive, so you don't need a lot to power them, I do fine in a small room with a 6 watt tupe amp. But others use them wih 100+ watts. Again, I would suggest you do a search.
As far as the grilles, they are just plugged. They shouldn't be hard to get off.
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Delivered as promised, quick turn around, great product, good price, a pleasure to deal with, What more can one say? ... Thanks Bob !!! ... Real happy with mine, money well spent ............
Couldn't have said it better. And an emphasis on the "pleasure to deal with" . I was a pain with all my newbie questions, and Bob was great about answering every one of them, and quickly. My '87 Forte's simply are not the same speaker that they were when I bought them in January. The first thing I noticed is that the imaging, and sensitivity got a hell of lot better. They play louder and more powerful, and man I am picking up new things from lp's that I've listened to for years. I had vintage Heresy's before the Forte's, and I wish I had replaced the crossovers in those.
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CROSSOVERS ................. www.critesspeakers.com or bobcrites@gmail.com ... "Making great sound ... Better"... a true Pro !!!
Just had my '87 Forte's X-over's replaced with Bob's, and the improvement is stunning.
Plus Bob is a great guy to work with.
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Well, thought I would wrap this thread by saying I got my Forte's back, Bob's crossovers in place, new tweeters in place. Mid's turned out to be ok. The main difference that I can tell right off the bat(and I am a believer in break-in) is so much more air. The music just seems to be so much more effortless, and floats. I'm sure that sound nuts, but that's what it sounds like to me. Really lovely. They actually sound sophisticated. And I haven't really been able to blast them yet because of family, but I'm planning on doing a bit of rocking tomorrow.
Anyway, another big thanks to Bob for a great job, and everyone else who offered support, advice, and feedback during this whole experience. It certainly has been worth it, and I would certainly recommend it to anyone.
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It's really quite amazing. I've been a regular contributor to the Hoffman forums, the Audio Asylum, the Decware Fourms, the Audiogon forums and several others for years. Asked so many questions about various products and claims, and pretty much uniformally have never had the rabid, almost paranoid responses that I've received here. Once again, there is nobody trying to sell anything. There is no snakeoil, there is only a question. Why the majority of you want to imply that it's something more than that is beyond me. But you know what, it is what it is. I'm done.
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Ok, your opinion. Which is all I was asking for. Again, remembr that it was an innocent question, based on the experiences of somebody that is not pushing a product, and is a very credible and respected listener. It's a little ridiculous to me that the responses were so uniformally negative and bashing. Kind of like the bully in thschool yard. He starts, and the rest follow.
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Why are they warrented? Just state your opinion and be done with it. Why does it have to come with a putdown? Nobody is throwing this in your face.
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The physics of sound? You're kidding, right?
Look, y'all think I was trying to sell you something, and ran with it. Nothing could be further than the truth. I simply read about something in another fourm, by a well respected individual who also has nothing to push, and asked opinons. I didn't ask for 3rd rate jokes, or putdowns. Is that all you have to give? The original post was basically "have you tried this"? You guys are very quick to the draw, especially considering it's clear that nobody has even tried this.
Knd of like it probably was when somebody suggested to Mr. Klipsch that the Heresy's might actually sound better on stands...
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How do you know? Have you tried it? No, you haven't.
That's
like me saying all people from Mississippi are crackers and know
nothing. That would be a big mistake on my part, wouldn't it?Hmmm. So we see the power of belief
versus the power of reasoning.Have you personally circumnavigated
the Earth? Do you know for a FACT that the world is round?While belief is indeed a formidible
force, I would suggest that a bit of reasoning with regards to physics provides
a bit more of a positive return on the investment...OK, let's take a look at a few
elements of the system described:Coupled with spikes/tiptoes
Source of vibration:
Speaker itself – internally
generated vibrationOther speaker via radiative
transmission - (damped via coupling)Surface via conductive transmission
– lower damped rate than of speaker itselfVibration of cabinet internally
generated in addition to radiative coupling damped by rigid coupling to lower
rate of vibration of the coupled surface – lower group delay => sounds worse (?)De-coupled with Rollerballs
Source of vibration:
Speaker itself – internally
generated vibrationOther speaker via radiative
transmission – (undamped via de-coupling)Vibration of cabinet internally
generated in addition to radiative coupling – increased group delay =>
sounds better (?)So we have testimonies of those who
initially claimed that tight coupling and infinitesimally small improved group
delay improved the sound.Now this same source claims that
de-coupling and allowing the enclosure and drivers to be vibrated by internal
and radiative sources with increased group delay to sound better!And all of this in addition to the
fact that the internal volume of the cabinet functions as a Helmholtz resonator
of varying efficiency driven by all of the various sources, thus
reinforcing the tuned frequency.To the degree that one might employ
the logic to make a case, tightly coupling the cabinet to a surface exhibiting
either (ideally) no or less conductive vibration should result in an
infinitesimal improvement. But such an improvement is negligible compared
to the orders of magnitude greater differences that can be easily effected via
other means, including signal alignment.Decoupling the cabinet only serves
to reduce the damping effect of a coupled surface of a surface exhibiting a
lower rate of vibration – thus resulting in a less damped total system and
higher group delay.And there is absolutely NO basis
whatever for the concept of higher group delay improving sound! Sorry...So....what mystical force or energy
is at play here? Or are these fancy devices better distributed via an ecclesiastical
supply house?I'm sorry, but faith and belief,
while useful in some realms, has little impact upon the
physics of sound.I could certainly use a beer...
Yes, the world is round. I know it for a fact.
More?
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How do you know? Have you tried it? No, you haven't.
That's like me saying all people from Mississippi are crackers and know nothing. That would be a big mistake on my part, wouldn't it?
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Sam:
No apology required at all, and I appreciate your explanation. I was more concerned I had done something wrong along the way. You are correct on everything we we discussed, I just didn't hear back after the last exchange and was curious as to what happened. Hope you get your current particulars worked out, and you are happy with the results. Again, thanks for the input - I don't want to be problematic for anyone here.
Chris
Thanks Chris. Appreciate it.
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Sam:
Couldn't help but notice your comment:
"But because of the way Chris is set up, it just wasn't possible to work with him this time around. Nonetheless, I have no doubt that he would have provided the same positive experience that Bob has."
What could I have done differently? I did not receive any reply from you concerning any specific issues, only to find out here that you had gone another route. Certainly I am glad that Bob has worked as an option for you, but I guess I don't understand "But because of the way Chris is set up". Can you help me understand what that means? I don't want to be a difficult option for anyone, if that's what you are inferring. Help me "fix" it. Thanks!
Chris
Chris,
Sorry, poor choice of words. This was not meant to infer anything negative whatsoever. On the contrary, you were as patient and helpful as Bob. And obviously your crossovers are top notch. What I was simply getting at is that you indicated that because you were out of parts, and you usually buy in bulk and because mine was the only interest you had, you didn't want to buy parts that you wouldn't be using. You did offer me an upgrade. If you feel I have any of this wrong, please let me know.
In the end, I decided to go with Bob. It had absolutely nothing to do with anything other than I had to make a decision and I went with Bob. If I had to come up with a reason why, I suppose it ultimately felt a bit less complicated for me. But certainly it was a tough decision to make because like Bob you provided so much advice and experience.
So please accept my apologies for an ambiguous first post. Obviously your reputation is well known and well earned, and I hope at some point I will be able to use your services.
Sam
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Yep, me too. But believe me, it would've been tough to remove those wires with any less force. I really thought for a while that they were soldered on.
Bi amping Cornwalls
in Technical/Restorations
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