TheWOOFER
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Might I remind everyone that TheWoofer was an impersonator of TheEar (a coworker that made this account and used TheEar's pictures while he was on vacation. There is either two things that is happening. TheEar is using this account or his co worker is.
My money is on TheEar. [Y] Too many similarities......
The "co-worker" was an excuse when his duplicitous shill-posting became apparent. [
]I'm wondering if TheEar / TheWoofer ever visited Stereo, the club in Montreal?
Investigator Cain,
Yes TheWOOFER was created by me(TheEAR),when I lost my password and wanted to post from work.Yes TheWOOFER is now known as an irritating clown thanks to my side kick at work. [
]And no I do not bash Crown or Bryston,to the contrary I recomend Bryston over Krell as they are more durable and more proven amps.20 year warranty,the best in the business.
I asked moderators to delete this account.
No I never visited Stereo. I do however "visit" local audio shops and buy in bunches on occasion.
And to answer why Krell does not post the DAMPING factor spec,I was shocked to see one time a figure of 60 of damping on a big Krell amp! Unless it was a gross type it is piss poor for an amp of this price,size,cost and ...might.
And I (TheEAR) would never say Krell is used in studios,they are NOT.Very few use Classe amps,again fragile amps.The only "audiophile" amps used are Bryston and Perreaux.Both solid no nonsense designs great for studio and home use.
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Seriously, what studio experience do you have?
You only need one amplifier per pair of speakers and speakers/amps RARELY fail. In the freak isntances that they do, you just repatch the signal path.
And for what it's worth, the passively cooled amplifiers are optomized for rack mounting...I seriously don't understand what you're trying to say. No serious studio is going to accept a reduction in audio fidelity for any convenience...the most "practical" factor in the studio is the upmost in quality.
I do not work in a studio so to answer the question NO direct studio experience. But I've talked with a good few sound engineers who work in studios and let me tell you the client is most of the time interested by a product that sounds good for the masses.And masses do not have high quality playback gear. So your "reduction of fidelity" does not stand.
Fact is only a handfull of studios produce true quality,I am talking sound quality not genre of music based on a personal preference. And more often then not they rely on amplified Dynaudio monitoring speakers.And in the amp departament they use Bryston amps when passive monitors/mains monitors are used.Crown may be the most populat amp in studios but this is not an indication of quality.And I say again,Crown does make some very good amps.
In fact judging the the majority of albums produced audio fidelity was NOT a priority or B gear is to blame.Or again a bit of both.
Now let me return the question,what real studio experience do you have?
And if Crown makes such refined power amps why do you people have to hide in the subwoofer section to talk about power amps! To me that is the faith you show,what is using Crown in a "High-End" system a crime? [
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Most studios do use Crown,yes. Why because they cost way less than the high end amps.Use active cooling(take less space,weigh way way less and cost way less).All these factors are a consideration for 99% of studios.
High end amps are used by studios,if you know sometimg about famed recording studios you should know this.
The weight and size of an amplifier has absolutely no bearing in a recording studio - it never moves and has an entire amp rack dedicated to it. As far as cost is concerned....I'm pretty sure $2 million+ studios are getting whatever amplification they want. Heck, most good studios are running at least 3 pairs of monitoring: the standard nearfield monitor, a pair of farfields, and then a pair of crappy ones for referencing. I've even seen a couple of studios that implement referencing in the car too.
Finally a better debate
When you say weight and size has ABSOLUTLEY NO bearing in a recording studio,this is not correct.
Any studio even with a mighty budget,will consider the size and weight of a power amp.As they use amps in multiples and rack mountable amps make sense where big passive convection cooled giants would be impractical. And when a rackmount amp fails,you replace one fast.
So very true cost is secondary but practicality is the main factor for just about any studio.
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And just an interesting tid-bit....the Crown K and Studio Reference series are some of the more common amplifiers used in high-end recording studios. So ultimately if crown is crap then you can't expect better quality by going with a 'better' amp; the minor nuances in the recordings would get ruined by the recording engineer compensating for the 'crappy' amplification...
Very astute observation. I've used a variety of playback chains to evaluate final mixes, including cheesy AM radio speakers, to help assure that a mix sounded 'good' no matter how it was presented. But your quality will never be better than the weakest link in the mixdown playback chain. If that's the case (and it is) why 'ultimate' amps as ML and Krell are not used in EVERY decent mix-down suite is a mystery to me.
OR MAYBE the crown amps actually are some of the highest quality
Gee, ya think? LOL [
]And for anyone talking about nuances between expensive amplification - It has been my experience than any differences in nuance are totally drowned out by the typical acoustical situation. Sure, there is a difference, but let's not get caught up in only making just a square inch of the window as clean as possible.
Yeah.... lol Gotta make sure those $10,000 speaker cables don't touch the floor..... [
]I sure wish I could pay 10 times the money for Krell amps to replace my Crowns. [
] But who would I get to haul around something that takes up four times the space and weighs three times as much?Not to bash Krell; I'm pretty sure they make some VERY GOOD SOUNDING amps. And I'm pretty sure that folks who keep them LIKE THEM. But it's a shame when a troll gives their image a black eye by touting them as '1 Ohm' capable and tries to compare them with a world-standard such as Crown. Krell is a decent high-end option for a few folks with deep pockets. Their main appeal 'could' be to folks who judge quality by the size of the bill and not by sound.
Damn pulling the chains brings results!
Most studios do use Crown,yes. Why because they cost way less than the high end amps.Use active cooling(take less space,weigh way way less and cost way less).All these factors are a consideration for 99% of studios.
High end amps are used by studios,if you know sometimg about famed recording studios you should know this.
Its not because many studios use some cheapo Yamaha monitors that these are even close to Genelec or Dynaudio Air monitors. Price is a factor
Crown amps in general are not the caliber of true high end amps,no matter what you like to dream up.Only thier three top of the line amps are worthy,the rest is amp a ton gear for clubs and ideal for touring(shows where massive wattage winns over refinement,and refinement not neede since the massive SPL stunns the srowd at concerts).
Cain,
First Krell amps are not practical for any touring as they are massive,big and costly per watt.Yes they are capable of driving 1 Ohm loads. That is besides the point
And you do not know little about Krell judging from your post Cain.Krell amps belong to the elite of the amp world.Like it or not,Crown makes good amps for touring and sound reinforcement.
You keep your Clown and I will keep my Diana Krell
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Cain,
Yes dad,I am using your putter.Next time put a password so your illegitimate son stops using it.
And in case YOU missed it dad,the output at 2Ohms is lesser than @ 4Ohms! Not that impressive if you ask me dad.
Learn how to read, junior troll......
Junior troll! But dad you have always been an inspiration. Yes sir,yes daddy Trollus.
Clown does not kick Krell anywhere.Clown amps are designed by clowns for clowns with PA gear who do not know quality only quantity. You take your Clowish watt and I take my Krell watt.
Stay in NY ,good ridance.Dad
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Cain,
Yes dad,I am using your putter.Next time put a password so your illegitimate son stops using it.
And in case YOU missed it dad,the output at 2Ohms is lesser than @ 4Ohms! Not that impressive if you ask me dad.
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Yes but thewoofer said the 1ohm like home theater is designed for it.... Ok Pro Sound but hardly anyone has the room for prosound in their own home.....
Saying my krell can do one ohms is all talk....
Not talk,specs.Valid specs,the Krell FPB series amps can and will drive 1Ohm loads with ease.
All talk...... no Krell specs below 2 Ohms.
Krell FPB series will double down to 2Ohms.Not the same as not being capable of driving a load of 1Ohm. Your Clown does not double down to 2Ohms. [
]And Krell makes a very economical amp called the MRA capable of doubling its output down to 0.5Ohm ! Yes 0.5Ohm a load I am sure is used in...welding or close.
Try as hard as you will Krell stands at the top of the super amp mountain,Clown well they make some great amps but most are just BADA BING type products for mobile disco and touring where deaf like SPL's are most important and drunk fans will cheer their fave group,amplified distortion.[
]In NY for now! WOW Are you like a space traveler? WOW I mean OMG you are a space traveler! Holy C
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Yes but thewoofer said the 1ohm like home theater is designed for it.... Ok Pro Sound but hardly anyone has the room for prosound in their own home.....
Saying my krell can do one ohms is all talk....
Not talk,specs.Valid specs,the Krell FPB series amps can and will drive 1Ohm loads with ease.
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1Ohm loads,big deal my Krell does it and better than any Clown amp. Can your Clown double its output again and agian and again? NO You will say but who needs that...just a brag spec. [
]Clown amps,good for subwoofer duty and blast a ton systems.Sure Clown makes solid amps,solid state that is. [
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I remember the first servo controlled sub in the car audio market by Infinity in the 90's. When I heard of it all I could think of was a mechanical servo-controled arm flapping a quasi-conical structure back and forth.
People ooo'd and aaah'd about it. I don't think even the salepeople understood it as they just kept touting it's output. When I finally found out it was "driven" by a servo-controled signal I wasn't impressed anymore. Cool...of course. Needed in car audio? Probably not.
Yes very needed! The half deaf pizza faced youngsters think they impress the girls,when loud BOUM BOUM music blasts at 120 plus dB.
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Ok, thanks for the explanation. Now it adds more weight to the driver
Do you even know the whole load of the monitoring device placed on the voice coil(or near it)has zero audible effect. We are talking a few,very few grams. The loss of "speed" will not even be heard by audiophools who hear things that are not half audible!
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Great guess Christian,sorry the Ear.
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Ear, what about movies like "War of the Worlds" and "The Incredibles"? They have sustained levels in the teens and single digits? They give my big IB quite a work out. Most music I listen to barely lights up the level meter on my BFD, but on movies, it gets on up there. (I must admit, I don't own any organ music!)
I rather have well reproduced REAL instrument that exists rather than some fake Hollywood created FAKE sound of some FAKE event. [
]But yes with a sub like your giant IB,anything that has abyss deep content must be a one of a kind experience.
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"A sub to compare with the Velodyne HGS/DD is Paradigm's Servo 15.Not some garbage Dayton."
"Garbage"? ...a might harsh, I'd say. Also, I would be careful about making disparaging comments about other's hearing ability. I'd say it's more a question of differing values and priorities. Granted though, Velodynes are generally fine subs, if a little pricey (imho).
Well,let's see.Dayton subs are overrated and do not outperform much in the way of real cometition.They get left in the proverbial dust when compared A/B with any Velo or Paradigm servo sub on music. Pricey,a bit.Any upscale product is.
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"Bearing in mind servos (like velodyne and paradigm) correct problems after they occur"
This could not be more wrong, the accelerometer monitors cone movement 1000's of times a second to ensure the cleanest, deepest bass response possible and does not allow any distortion whatsoever! This is accomplished on the fly not as an afterthought.
"ported goes deeper than sealed" Huhhhh? Where did you read that?
Sealed designs go deeper than ported versions and the bass is much smoother and controlled. The trade off is they require more power and they sacrifice some output but the bass response is of higher quality though.
Don't even think of putting that Dayton in the class of the Velodyne Servo's not even close. I'll put one of my Velodyne's up against that Dayton anywhere, anytime but be prepared to get spanked.
Some of you guys need to do some more research before spouting off.
Right on the money
Anyone who tries to compare a Dayton to the quality produced by Velodyne HGS/DD series is out of his mind. The Dayton is a good cheapie sub,the Velodyne HGS is a high end accurate sub. But some people could hardly hear the gains,as thier hearing is very poor.
A sub to compare with the Velodyne HGS/DD is Paradigm's Servo 15.Not some garbage Dayton.
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There are plenty of acoustic suspension subs.The most notable are from Velodyne(SPL and HGS/DD series).
These subs while sacrificing ultimate output for depth offer quality over quantity.These days most newbs talk about output,as they forget how low distortion and bass quality is important.
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Crown for POWER!!!...????
in Home Theater
Posted
SoundBroker,
Sorry to post as TheWOOFER ,but it is TheEAR not the clown clowing around. Posting from work.
Yes Perreaux is a little known company outside of the pro audio world,and their products are built like tanks and perform great.They are alot like Bryston in a few respects and should be better known,a few studios in Montreal use Perreaux power amps.Radio Canada unless I am mistaken had/has Perraux power amps in thier studios.
What sells in the "High-End" is the impressive box and faceplate these days.To me as long as the amp means business its all good.
As for the Krell daming of 60,yes a zero was missing or worse it was a full bandwith figure.Anyone knows damping factor falls like a stone when you move from the deep bass up into the midrange and up.And high damping is crucial down deep anyway,where the cone travel will be greatest.At 20Hz damping factor is of little importance and no amp made has a high damong factor in the upper freq.
SoundBroker what do you think about Earthquake multichannel power amps,am I mistaken to say they are alot like a more overbuilt ATI amp.And have you tried CinePro,read only great reviews about them and maybe I may have a chance to get the 3K6 Gold.Plain looking but all business inside.