jmorgan32
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Posts posted by jmorgan32
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Tie.......Joe Namath and John Elway.
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I noticed that the rf83 are accurate at indy pilgrimage. I did hear a difference between it and the heritage models... but there was somethings that many people said at the pilgrimage.... they kept coming back to the rf-83 room....... coytee (owns jubilee), dtel and dtel's wife (owns forte and cornwall III) said they liked the system very much. Michael Hurd said that if it wasn't for a little bit of lack at the midrange that he would consider it one of the great speakers. Drwho likes them alot.
I listened to the rf-7 and the rf-83 and I guess i chose my bed [
] Nice to hear some of the die-hard heritage fans appreciate the sound of the 83's! (like Mike Hurd said, I agree based on my auditions at Klipsch headquarters that LaScalas had a little better mid than the 83's, but the room flexibility I currently lack for speaker cabinet size and the newer "updated design" of the RF series swayed me to the 83's. (aesthetics.)
I also liked the low end on the 83's!
I really like my 83's and use them in a 2-channel setup with a McIntosh integrated and new Marantz SA-11 Reference SACD player.
I auditioned a lot of equipment, and I think for buying all NEW equipment, I got a tremendous value. (My dealer paid me a couple of home visits and he agreed that he has not heard many systems that sound better for the $$ I spent. --again, on NEW equipment, not used. He has sold a LOT of McIntosh high end gear over the years too.)
Now, my next "problem" will be with getting my hands on some Palladiums!! (I wonder how much better they will sound than the 83's?? If they do sound much better, I am wondering how efficient they will be. Hopefully, like all other Klipsch I won't need to even upgrade my amp!!) My other issue will be finding a dealer who stocks the Palladium so I can listen to them! Here in Columbus, the only dealer I know of has the RF series and the Heresy. (lack of floor space I guess.)
I am moving in 6 months to Dallas, and hope I can find a dealer who will stock the Palladiums. I can't quit thinking about them and haven't even heard them yet! (of course.)
It was no problem to drive 2.5 hours over to Klipsch to do my last audition in their listening room, but Dallas will be another story!
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Joe,
Here is a brute force showing of the difference... this compares the watts needed to reach various sound levels. Of course these calcs aren't perfect - the speakers do poop out as the watts gets real high, and you won't be three feet in front of them when you listen.
You can see that the 1 watt line has 90dB and 100dB for the B&W and the Klipsch... say you want to listen at the 90dB level (moderately loud), the B&W needs 1 watt, but the Klipsch just needs 0.125 watt - that's just 1/8th of a watt. Likewise the B&W's at 128 watts are not quite as loud as the Klipsches at only 16 watts.
To be more accurate, the levels will not be as loud from where you listen back from the speakers, but the decrease with distance is also logarithymic, so the relative loudness comparisons still stand.
Thanks!
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Thank you to both of you. I had Googled before, but the "logarithim" and the way it is calculated always confused me.
I have a better understanding now.
A HUGE thanks to you "Audible Nectar" to take all that time you put into your explanation.
There are some great people on this forum.
Thanks!
Joe
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Can someone provide me with a really simplified explanation of sensitivity rating?
I am confused since my Klipsch RF83 are rated at 100 dB, and I was looking at a pair of B&W speakers rated at 90dB.
My 83's are currently driven by a McIntosh SS amp rated at 100 wpc. It is PLENTY powerful!
When I asked about power requirements for the B&W, the tech said he recommends at LEAST 500 watts per channel! I was considering getting a McIntosh 6900, which is 200 watts per, but he said he could not recommend that amp. He said I would end up harming the amp if I used it with these B&W's.
Is there really that much "difference" between a rating of 90dB and 100dB. Yes, I know it is a difference of "10", but I can't translate that figure so that it means something to me.
I am really interested NOW in the new Palladium Klipsch which will be launced in the fall. I would GUESS that as with all Klipsch, they will be highly efficient. I look forward to hearing them and wonder if I got the McIntosh 6900 @ 200 watts per if it would drive them fine? I would not be able to audition that specific integrated with the Klipsch anywhere that I know of. (well, unless I take the amp to Klipsch headquarters! I may do that!!) I don't think any local dealers in my area will stock the Palladium. (but who knows? maybe.)
Last question. Sorry so many! (I just know there are a lot of "sound engineering minded" guys here.) In addition to the horn technology in Klipsch, why are they so efficient?? eg my RF83's really only have one horn. ie the "midrange" at the top which has the tweeter inside of it. The other 2 drivers, as you know are are NOT horns. I would like to get a better understanding of this.
Thanks!
Joe
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i talked with michael colter @ klipsch about placement of my rf 83 (similar rear bass ports) and he suggested 12-18 inches from the rear wall. they sound very good to me at 18"
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I bought some RF-83's based on the praise they get on the forums. I listened to them at the local Ultimate store and they sounded okay, but were powered off some 7.1 Pioneer so I figured they would be much better with one of my rigs at home. I unpacked them with great care and marveled at the copper colored wonders for a while then hooked them up. I ran a 30 sine wave through them for about 12 hours to break in the woofers a bit and things got better. I was happy for about a month until I decided to start A-B comparisons with some of my other Klipsch speakers. Well, bad idea the Forte's smoke them, the Cornwalls, smoke them, and the Choruses, smoke them.
What is disappointing is these are a flagship model and they are being bested by 60's and 80's tech speakers. I bought into the whole better newer materials garb and advances in CAD, CAM processes. Bummer...
I love my 83's. Have you given them adequate break-in time?
I drive mine with a McIntosh 6300 integrated and my source is the Marantz SA-11 (reference series SACD player)
I love the overall sound, the aesthetics and the flexibility on speaker placement. I also auditioned the RF83's vs the Khorns & LaScalas at Klipsch headquarters. Yes, I heard a more "sensitive" and louder mid-range on the heritage speakers, but the low end on the 83's blew away the LaScalas to my ears. I also place a high degree of personal preference on the aesthetics of my speakers. ie I love the look of the newer design (ie the 83) and do not particularly care for the the look of heritage spkrs. I also did not have the room for a Khorn that requires corners.
My dealer even came over and we agreed that it would be very difficult to find a system for under $10k that could compare in sound. (I only buy new components.)
I know that I can expect to get smashed by 99% of the forum here since it is a "2 channel" forum and seems to be comprised of mostly heritage owners. That's fine. I can handle it. I believe in personal preference, how much you not only enjoy the sound but the look of your system. I have a beautiful Billy Bags rack, McIntosh gear, et. al, and it looks great! Sounds great too!
Remember, it is all up to our own ears. I did take the time to drive 3 hours each way to listen to the heritage speakers in the headquarters listening room. My choice was and still is the 83.
To each his/her own.
Good luck, and I hope you get a reasonable resolution to your situation.
All the best,
Joe
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It's Klipsch Magic.!!!
Please remember that our ears are human. They can only hear so well. How much better can other speakers sound compared to Klipsch. Could they actually sound so much better that they are worth the added thousands of dollars? I don't think so. Utopia in audio/video is an elusive, impossible goal to achieve. Seeking it will just drive you crazy. (That's how I got to be the way that I am)
Roc, It is driving me crazy. Only two years ago, I had a cheap Kenwood receiver and some small bookshelves. Now, with my McIntosh amp and RF83's, I find myself constantly thinking about upgrading. Most recently, I bought Cardas speaker cables (1200.00) and a power cable (265.00) I hear no difference. I kept the products, but where the hell does this thinking process end???????????????
You have excellent speakers and a really good amp. So sorry to hear about your cables. I've never believed in super expensive cables for speakers or interconnects. I just worry about the guage for speaker wire. I don't believe that there is any difference with high priced wires except, of course, the difference in how much of your money gets spent.
Your good with your equipment. Now it is on to room treatments/equalization. That should keep you busy for quite a while.
We are all chasing the progress being made in technology so "frustration" is guaranteed.
Thanks Roc.
Joe
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I recently auditioned B&W 800D's and 803D's mated with McIntosh MC-275 Mark V, C-46 and MCD-201. My K-horns with MC-250 and Cambridge Audio Azur 640C, with a humble Denon AVR-3200 as a pre bested the B&W's. Not even close. B&W's were too laid back, sound stage was wide but sounded "smeared". Heck, my Cornwall's with a McIntosh MAC-1700 bested the audio stores setup. I believe the 800D's go for $25,000 and the 803D's for $8,000.
Thanks Ron!
I know you from the AK Mc site. You are always helpful for us "newbies,"
Much appreciated,
Joe
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It's Klipsch Magic.!!!
Please remember that our ears are human. They can only hear so well. How much better can other speakers sound compared to Klipsch. Could they actually sound so much better that they are worth the added thousands of dollars? I don't think so. Utopia in audio/video is an elusive, impossible goal to achieve. Seeking it will just drive you crazy. (That's how I got to be the way that I am)
Roc, It is driving me crazy. Only two years ago, I had a cheap Kenwood receiver and some small bookshelves. Now, with my McIntosh amp and RF83's, I find myself constantly thinking about upgrading. Most recently, I bought Cardas speaker cables (1200.00) and a power cable (265.00) I hear no difference. I kept the products, but where the hell does this thinking process end???????????????
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THANKS! I appreciate all of the feedback. I am just in the stage where I got "the bug" so to speak. Having 2nd thoughts about why I spend so "little"on my Klipsch when I have McIntosh amp, etc. However, they just sounded and still sound damned good!
I had Klipsch bookshelves (can't even remember the model---bought in around 1985) and then moved to the F3 and now R83's. I guess I must appreciate not only the "sound" but the efficiency and not needing 500 watt monoblocks as well. I just love Klipsch. Period. (I know I need to stop wondering what my system would sound like with B&W et. al, plus my 100 W Mac would not drive B&W or Wilsons.)
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Just looking for opinions here...................Are Klipsch speakers underpriced, or are a lot of other speakers overpriced?
I ask because when I auditioned my RF 83's side by side with a pair of $7,000 Paradigms, (and several other speakers that cost much more than the 83's) the RF 83 sounded just as good and in most cases BETTER!
I do realize that at my age (50) my hearing is not as good as it used to be, so maybe I am just "missing something."
It is just hard for me to understand how a pair of 2500.00 speakers can sound so darned good.
Now, I understand they probably don't compare to a pair of $15,000.00 B&W or Wilson Audio, but then again I have never heard those speakers either!
Just looking for opinions and feedback here.
Thanks.
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Klipsch demos with a Cayin integrated and I believe a Cayin CD Player as well. All tubes of course and running that psuedo whatever mode (i forget the name for it). I'm not a tube fan at all, but the Cayin's do a decent job. I dunno if they're the best tube amps I've heard, but they're up there.
That is a fact that Klipsch uses both components you mention in their headquarters demo room. I heard them in person driving Khorns and LaScalas last winter.
I don't use tubes, but I can say these sounded pretty darned good, and from what I understand they are not very expensive either.
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If you're a DK fan, go see her perform live. You will not be disappointed.
Bob, you are exactly right I saw her in Dallas a couple of years ago I was not more than twenty feet from her. Im still not fully recovered (!)
I have all of her recordings, and am now going to see her live for the first time. Boston--July 29! She is back on a full summer tour after having her twin boys. I said the hell with it and had to get a plane ticket to go see her! It will be worth it. Got front row seats.
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I don't have the technical background to address the specifics about driver quality, etc., but I can tell you that I listened to an awful lot of speakers before I bought my RF-83's. Money was not a major factor in my buying decision, as I was prepared to spend up to 5 grand for a pair. (well, it was somewhat of a factor obviously because I wasn't going to spring for a pair of Wilson Audio!!)
The cherry finish is beautiful, the cabinet is very solid and they weigh 100 lbs apiece.
I am driving them with the new McIntosh MA6300 integrated, which only has 100 wpc, and they crank. I know that if I had gone with most other brands eg B&W, I would have had to buy a much more powerful amplifier, and of course spend much more money.
My retailer usually has my amp set up to demo another brand of speaker that retails for over 5K a pair. When I asked him to hook up the RF-83's to the McIntosh he seemed amazed at the sound.
In summary, I think if anything the RF-83's are UNDERpriced @ 2500/pr!
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MCD-201. On the McIntosh forum at Audio Karma I was not alone. There are at least 8-10 other members having all sorts of issues. Mc keeps issuing new "firmware upgrades" etc., but even if that stops the freezing up and skipping, a transport that can be heard spinning from 5 feet away is not acceptable for a 3300.00 player. My Marantz blows it away.
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My new McIntosh did not live up to expectations-loud transport, lock ups, et. al. I finally gave up on McIntosh and got a new Marantz reference series SA-11S1. Unreal! The sound is incredible. With the filters I can tweak it depending on my mood for a more 'tubesque" sound, etc. This thing weighs a whopping 31 lbs and is built like a tank. I would be hard pressed to find a player under 5 grand that could outperform this wonderful unit. (In my opinion of course.)
ps..............I still believe in McInstosh for amps, and love mine. However, going for aesthetics did not work out for me. It is about the sound and performance!
Joe
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"I am driving my 83's with a McIntosh 6300 integrated that only has 100w per. It has PLENTY of power." jmorgan32
Mike, you freaked me out! I saw the post subject line about RF83 & I was interested of course. Scrolling down, reading, drinking Bud Light (of course) and all of a sudden I see you post above. I bolt up in my chair and think "WOW this guy is just like I am!!" Then I see my name and realize you pasted a quote from me. I don't post here that often. OK, I guess you "had to be there."
Take care Mike,
Joe
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I am driving my 83's with a McIntosh 6300 integrated that only has 100w per. It has PLENTY of power.
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sorry i can't help with a comparison, but i can say my new 83's sound fantastic. i have them paired up with a new mcintosh 6300 and mcintosh mcd201. i love the sound.
joe
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Thanks Dale. No dig camera! I need to step into the new era of technology.
All the best,
Joe
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My McIntosh MCD201 was on backorder for a month, but Saturday I had it all delivered and set up. All new equipment.
McIntosh MA6300, MCD201 & Klipsch RF83's. Sounds great!
Pulled an "all-nighter" last night, with CD cases strewn all over the place.
All the best,
Joe
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Finally, McIntosh got their production issues fixed. My new MA6300 integrated and MCD201 player is arriving along with my new RF-83's. They synergy in the listening room at my retailer blew me away for a fairly "middle of the road" system with respect to MSRP.
(as a little bonus I treated myself to a pair of Sennheiser 650's since I will have a neighbor above me for another 6 months until I move!)
All the best,
Joe
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Ken,
I wish I could tell you that I have heard the F3's, as I have not. However, I can tell you I auditioned the RF 83's a few weeks ago in the listening room at Klipsch headquarters. (along with the Khorns - of course! - and a pair of La Scalas) I loved the RF-83's so much, I went to my local dealer the very next day and ordered a pair.) My RF-83's will not arrive until the first week of the new year, and I can't wait.
I can also tell you that I compared the RF-83's to many other brands of speakers similar with respect to price, as well as many that were more expensive. From my perspective, the RF-83's are a tremendous value, and if anything, are very underpriced. (attn. Klipsch! Please don't raise the price of the RF-83 based on my statement! My dealer admitted this when we did an "ABA" versus another pair of floorstanders that retailed for 6K--------the Klipsch blew them out of the water.)
Good luck,
Joe
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Sensitivity question-Cornwall vs Heresy
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Very basic question here. (thanks in advance for helping me understand.)
In looking the specs of the Cornwall vs Heresy, I notice the Cornwall is slightly MORE efficient.
Both speakers use identical midrange and tweeter drivers. Of course, as all of you probably are aware, the Cornwall has a larger composite woofer than the Heresy. (15" versus only 12" in the Heresy.) This would lead me to believe (as a relative "newbie" to this hobby) that a larger woofer would need more power and hence be "less efficient."
The only thing I can come up with is that the Cornwall must be more efficient (even with the larger woofer) due to the sheer size of the cabinet. (much larger of course.)
Am I thinking correctly?
Thanks