daveab

He can't get the 62, it isn't within that "great deal" he's able to get from this unnamed employer. Also, I wasn't knocking the quality of the H/K 247. It is a great looking unit. It has great connectors. It will power your speakers nicely (don't compare 50 wpc on an H/K to something like 120wpc on the Denon isn't an equal comparison) I second the statement above that H/K have periodically shown a tendency for Quality issues but H/K resolves them. The 247 has been in production long enough that they've fixed most issues anyhow. I looked at the denon 2807 vs. 247 myself. If you have a record player: turntable. Go with the denon because you won't have to purchase a phono pre-amp which adds another 40-50 dollars to the overall cost. That's about the only thing I can say to sway toward the denon as being dramatically difference.

Ok so let me tell you I pretty much have the same setup except I went with the RS-42 surrounds instead of the bookshelves. I also have the H/K 247 Here is the info on that H/K model that you NEED to know about HDMI. 1. With HDMI outputs to your TV there is HDMI upconversion to 720p. 2. YOU CANNOT TURN IT OFF 3. If you have a 1080p signal, it will pass through. If you have a 1080i signal, it depends on analog or digital. 4. Analog 1080i (a la Xbox 360 non-elite) will be DOWNPROCESSED to 720p because of some HDCP digital signal integrity. You cannot pass 1080i analog in to analog out (YPbPr / component) 5. Only HDMI in, digital signals will pass through unscathed. 5. If your TV's native resolution is 1080i or 1080p, not only will this H/K downprocess your 1080i XBox360 image but then after that your TV will reprocess it back up to 1080! This results in game-lag (severe) or audio/video lip synch issues. If you want to be able to turn off the upconversion/mandatory conversion you have to go to a much more expensive model. I thought the upconversion was a feature -- until I got the product and read the manual. It really is a leash, not a feature. Otherwise, the sound from it is great and warm.

For me the difference would be between 98db sentivity L/R 95dB Center 93dB Surrounds. at only 5dB I shouldn't have the same issue then, eh?

Sorry this is an edit because I didn't read your post thoroughly. I was wondering about inside the amplifier: its circuitry. If it is not a real world problem then I don't need to worry. I don't have a meticulous ear, the question is largely going to the superficial element of the possibility of an annoying offset and learning about it before I set it up. To note, I was a psych major, nothing EE or ME about me so I am likely talking right out of my *** -- ace ventura style. The basic idea is because I am unfamiliar but attempting to do some reasoning on my own, its a dialectic (not dielectric) process IMO. Would that kind of issue, in regard to a high-powered amp for the mains, only happen at such high SPL levels as to sound moot?

Arky, That is a really interesting idea! a 2 channel amp to drive the L/R 82's would allow a bunch of +dB headroom for the less sensitive Center and Surrounds. For that setup I'd do what, hookup the mains through the pre-out connections on the rear of the receiver? Do you think I would I have to do some Delay compensation for the circuit time differential between the separate amp and the amp/pro H/K or Denon?

Spkrdctr, H/K only makes 1 model at or above 7x80 all channels driven and its $3.5k Remember this about H/K the all channels driven means that your rears are getting 50 watts steady too. I think H/K uses discrete amps for front and back channels which is in part what limits that 2 channels driven to 65 watts. Given the changing dynamics in a movie or music piece that can have up to 20dB peaks, if its driving those fronts at 50, it should clip on a dynamics increase so reality would be steady running at less wattage anyhow. Also, the All channels driven at 1kHz is 85W! a 35% increase on a 1 freq sample. So the 50W is not by any means the top Wattage it puts out but that there is no way it would do under 50W. Now the distortion is rated at 0.07 and I'm pretty sure I would want to be running it for lower distortion levels around the req'd 0.01 to minimize audible coloration of the sound, so I don't think I want to be solidly at 50W anyway, maybe on peaks. So in many ways it does appear underpowered but because I'm not sure about this stuff a lot of this is fairly speculative. Also, I read that aside from wattage, and from the posts I've read: mas and a few of the other electrical engineering types would be able to tell me how wrong I am about the following. (Like I've warned, I'm on 2-week crash course so far and soaking up what I can.) I read somewhere that the H/K supposedly drives more amps to each channel than some other brands? I don't know what that means toward powering speakers or even whether its a flat out lie, I know Watts = Amps x Voltage but not sure because I thought voltage was fairly constant (110v) Or maybe it's like better computer power supplies that have a stronger or dual 12v rails?

Definitely set your speakers to small with the on-screen menu. What other specific issues are you having with the setup?

Danger, thanks for the suggestion, I've been over to outlaw's website and looked at their product line, its a really solid line if I had the extra $500-600 right now. There's the saying I've seen over and over here: buy the best speakers you can afford, I did that but it cuts my budget on a short-term receiver (4 years max vs 20-30 years for owning the speakers. I'll hand-me-down this one to my parents when I upgrade). I'm looking for something in the range of 33% of the price you suggested, $999 vs the H/K or Denon for something like 30-40% off retail. The reason I can't really splurge is because I just graduated undergrad and will be going into law school. That means: no time to work at a job that will pay anything for 3+ years now, plus 100k in debt after 3 years. So saving now is a must. Also, don't both the H/K and Denon allow pre-out lines so that I can add-on a preamp if I want to drive the speakers further or more cleanly with a separate amp and leave the H/K or Denon to just do pre/pro decoding, upconverting, remote control, etc. Link to the H/K AVR 247 Specifications Link to the Denon AVR- 1907 & 787 The basic thing I want to know is which would be better with my newly acquired Klipsch speakers, between these two good names, which is more able to faithfully reproduce my music and movies? Because I'm so uninitiated, I'm not sure about most of this. Been to Vanns, great site free shipping on 200 lbs of speaker? I tried to mail a hardcover book and USPS wanted to charge me 8 bucks... nuts on them.

I don't know enough about the RC-64 to answer your question as to damage but you probably wouldn't be able to tilt up the speaker toward listener ear-level with a TV on top. This might not help either but a 50" plasma is likely close to 100 pounds, a panasonic 50" at BB is 99+ pounds. Imagine, if you would, a small child standing on your speaker. Does it crumple? Probably not. Is it the best idea for your speaker? Again, probably not.

I'm new to Klipsch and to the world of A/V in general. I have given myself a crash course over the last two weeks. I just purchased a set composed of: 2xRF-82, 1xRC-52, 2xRS-42's, RW-10d. Just waiting for delivery. But to drive this wonderful set of speakers I'm still debating receivers. From reading these forums over and over I ran away from the Onkyos and read up on a love it/hate it approach to Yamahas. The two brands I saw universally well received (pardon the pun) were Harman/Kardon and Denon, along with those Outlaw Audio, Marantz, etc that are out of my price range. I am between these two receivers and looking for your input on both (because I won't be able to sample them). Harman/Kardon AVR-247 -- This model has video upconversion through HDMI and component. It has no phono input (which would require me purchasing a phono preamp for the turntable, which increases the price the 20-30 extra dollars for a cheap phono preamp). Denon AVR-1907/787 (the stats between the models are identical on the website, down to the weight). This doesn't have even an HDMI port but appears to drive the speakers stronger with a rated 85 watts x 7 into 8 full-bandwidth rated (H/K's says 50x each fully driven but 85x at 1kHz). This model does have a phono input for the turntable. Behind this system is an XBox360 and its HD-DVD player (Optical audio out and Hi Def component). Long down the road (maybe christmas or later) I would be looking into a Blu-Ray (possibly in the PS3) player to balance out format wise. What I'm asking from the community is information on each: 1. I'm looking for which better produces a flat-response that doesn't add character (e.g. Onkyo) 2. Better insight into the real-world comparison of those power numbers because Denon doesn't mention all channels fully driven and H/K doesn't do otherwise. 3. Is the advertised video upconversion through the receiver unit a worthwhile advantage? Should I be looking at it as increasing the value of my non-HD dvds or as a fringe benefit of little value? 3. Other subjective factors to consider (WAF isn't an issue). Thanks for any help or suggestions and hello to all of you - Dave