Joe Petrik

A quick update — the shop must not be eager to sell the Belles, as I've had two demonstrations now (last Monday and Saturday) and I've just called to get a price, but the store's owner hasn't come up with a figure yet. Maybe my patience will pay off. And a quick question — does anyone here use Belles with solid state amps? If so, what are you using and do you think that the combination gels? Joe

I'm trying to work out a price with the owner of the store. I suspect he'll sell the Belles for less than $2500 Cdn (~$2500 US), but how much lower remains to be seen. I'm also hoping for a demonstration at home to determine if my room and Naim electronics will suit the Belles. Audio Flynn -- I'm not sure what you mean by adding a Musical Fidelity buffer to the Naim amp's tape loop, but, for what it's worth MF is not what I'm after. Thanks, Joe

Thanks again for the replies and advice. The second-hand Belles are selling for $2500 Cdn, which, given the current exchange rate, is about the same in US dollars. The speakers appear to be in good shape but the finish has been ruined. I'm guessing they were treated with a wood cleaner or polish that stripped the finish irregularly. I think they could be restored easily enough, so that doesn't concern me other than I wouldn't pay top dollar for a cosmetically challenged speaker. Canuck Audio Mart is the biggest online used site in Canada. It's like Audiogon, except the sellers are based in Canada. I searched for Klipsch and a few used speakers came up that lead me to believe the Belles are overprice, especially given their condition. For example... * A pair of mint K-horns circa 1975 is going for $2750 Cdn * A pair of Corrnwall IIs is going for $950 Cdn * A pair of Heresy IIs are going for $450 Cdn Given these prices and that the Belles are in much worse cosmetic shape, what would be a fair price? I'm guessing it would be substantailly less than $2500 if mint K-horns can be had for $2750. If possible I rather not sell my Naim amps. They're not perfect by any stretch, but their strengths are important to me and I suspect I couldn't beat their rhythmic qualities with a tube amp without spending a small fortune. For what it's worth, here's an excerpt from wiki on Naim Audio if you're unfamiliar with what the brand is about -- ________________ Historically, Naim components have had a strong following from audiophiles for their presentation of pace, rhythm and timing (PRaT). This design approach was to attempt to reproduce attributes which were regarded by Vereker as the fundamental and universal to all music. "Sonic attributes" such as tonal accuracy/neutrality were relegated in importance; while spatial rendition was regarded as mere artefacts of the modern recording studio. This approach defined what became known as the British "flat earth" sound. While this made for a very dynamic, upfront sound, the company's products were occasionally criticised for lack of subtlety in reproducing classical music, whose aficionados seemingly prefer accurate portrayal of timbre (tonal neutrality) and a more detailed sound. Harshness in reproducing many recordings from a digital source was also a common criticism. Naim appears to have heeded this criticism: the 5 series and the Reference range launched in 2002 seem to be much more "digital friendly", although the changes have not been wholeheartedly welcomed by those who prefer the classic sound. ________________ Thought I'd post a couple of snap shots of the room, so people would get a better idea of the acoustic space I'm trying to fill. The room is narrow and long, measuring 11 x 35 x 6.5 feet. It's carpeted and the ceiling is irregular, so it's not bright or echo-y, but it's a big space. The Sorcerers are against the wall of the room's short dimension and my couch is little less than half of the way back along the room's long dimension. The other half of the room is where my three-year-old daughter's playroom and toys are. As you can see, my current speakers are the exact opposite of Belles Joe

Thanks, seti. I'm not looking for perfect sound, but I'm not after a speaker that needs lots of TLC to perform near its potential. It's not so much an issue of laziness on my part as one where time and money limit what I can do. I could take my Naim amps to the store to do the demonstration, but it's a bit of a pain since they need to be set up and warmed up to do their thing well, so I thought I'd save myself the hassle by asking here first. For what it's worth, my online audio buddies categorically didn't like the Heresies with Naim. I'm asking about Belles, however, because I thought the situation might be different, given that they're fuller range speakers. Thanks to all for the advice. Joe

Thanks for the replies. My suspicion is that Naim and Klipsch would not be a good match. I don't have any experience to back up this assumption, but given that no one here seems use Naim electronics with their Klipsch Heritage speakers and no one on the Naim forum seems to have Klipsch suggests the combination isn't a pleasant one. What I have to avoid is making a speaker change that necessitates an entire system change. I simply can't afford to do this, as both time and money are limited. However, if they weren't, I'd buy K-horns sight unseen, sound unheard, then experiment with different sources and amps to assemble a combination that hopefully gelled. But my situation is a different -- I'm mostly happy with my system, but we recently bought a house and my listening room is much larger than any I've had previously, so my Sorcerers, which worked well in other smaller rooms, are completely out of their element now. You simply can't expect a shoebox-sized speaker with a 5-inch woofer to fill a room that measures 11 x 35 x 6.5 feet (W x L x H). I've asked my hi-fi buddies at pink fish media for recommendations. A couple suggested I try a Heritage speaker, ideally the biggest one I can afford. Both guys, incidentally, have tried tube amps (Prima Luna Prologue II and Manley Stingray) with their Heresies and find the combination excellent. I don't mind a bit of tweaking, but I'm mostly looking for a plug-and-play solution -- just buy some good speakers, connect them, then sit back and enjoy my LPs. I have the suspicion that Belles can be downright spellbinding in the right room with the right equipment, but perhaps they're not for me. However, if someone has actually tried them with Naim and really liked the pairing I'll keep them on my contenders list. (I think I finally figured out how to make paragraph breaks appear -- sorry for the bad typography earlier in this thread.) Joe

Thanks. I don't know anything about the history of the Belles in question, other than they're not a recent model. They may need some work on the crossovers and the finish certainly could use some TLC. For what it's worth, I find Naim amps different from just about everything else so they're very much in the love it or hate it category. My suspicion is that they're not an ideal choice with Klipsch even though they have some sonic characteristics in common, what Naimies call PRaT -- pace, rhythm and timing. Joe

Thanks, seti. I should note that I'm considering the Belles because a used pair is available locally. Joe

I've been an audiophool for a couple of decades now, but I never seriously considered Klipsch because I mistakenly thought they were speakers for headbangers. I had a recent demonstration of Belle Klipsch, however, that pretty much turned that conception on its head. I'm now seriously considering the Belles, but I have a suspicion they'd be too bright and aggressive on the end of Naim electronics. Does anyone here use big Klipsch with Naim and is it a combination that works well together? My system is as follows -- Sources -- Rega P9 table, RB900 arm, Dynavector XX-2 cartridge and Dynavector P-75 phono stage; Naim CD2 CD player Electronics -- Naim 102 preamp, Naim Hi-Cap analogue power supply, Naim NAPCS digital power supply, Naim 250 power amp Speakers -- Royd Sorcerers, which are the exact opposite of Belles -- small and inefficient bookshelf speakers. I'm not a volume nut, but after hearing the Belles I understand what uncompressed dynamics are about. My only quibbles with the Belles are that the speakers are a bit coloured, directional and bass shy given their size. Any advice would be appreciated, including whether it would be better to hold out for K-horns, which I understand are like Belles but with more bottom end weight and depth. Thanks, Joe