paulV12

Hi all, My 511 horns rocked up in good condition. freight was a bit hefty at US$215 as the horns were only $139. what can you do?? Still A$380 not too bad as you can't get them here. haven't really done anything with the project much as this computer (my gaming one) is dying, so i'll have to put funds towards another gaming one for my son (and me). That said, things arent so bad that i can't keep ticking along with this project, just a bit slower. John what is the difference between an Altec 902-8A and a 902-8B. I saw your thread on the A and T variants here, but i want to know about the A and B??? I can't seem to find anything on google(easily) so the wealth of info that this place seems to be should have been my first stop really!! see ya Paul.

hi everyone! still here, just laying low, been getting the messages(they're emailed) though. speak over the weekend. we're a day in front of you guys. eastern aust is +10GMT, so while its my Saturday you're all still at work. see ya Paul

yeah, John id like to do the Bass Mod in the top cabinet if poss, AND have the advantage of split. this could be tricky, as it has to turn and pass wind(hehe) if you know what i mean! did you design a crossover? If i do the Bass mod I don't want to do it on the bottom. puts the bass bin too high and looks yuk. P

well Bruce i wrote a message about Tasmania for you but its vanished. It was rather long and i don't know where it went. into the ether probably! i wish it hadn't. Maybe i'll rewrite it in the next few days but it won't be the same(it'll be a Joseph Smith) p

sorry john, i got carried away, again. You did state it was coal poer station not hydro! hey that link you sent me to "more info on 911/511" thread sends me back here. Paul.

yeahhhhh, that's what i'm talkin' about. That's a pair of Mans' speakers. How fantastic. When i was young(and stupid) as opposed to old(an etc)i would have turned up my arrogant nose at that amp. Now all i want to do is have some. Who has any ideas on good reasonably priced S/H mono tube amps for my lascala project? I want some that do good bass and good treble. Nothing esoteric, just a good honest amps. Now, y'all, i have NEVER heard any Hi Fi tube amps, just old radios, so i am definitely in your hands. I'm not a SE/PP/ULPPetc,etc nazi. the relative merit of any particular brand is what i'm after, regadless of the type of amp design. watts are probably irrelevant for our horns, yeah? My lascala project is going to be 511/902/Crites cast woof/1" ply cabs/ALK ES600 Xovers and the bass mod, so far. (511 horns in transit from US) Split LaScala with bass mod in the top cabinet, anyone?? how could you do it and keep the swivel airtight? we might have to think laterally, but i wonder if there is anything commercially available that might be adapted to do this. building or automotive industries maybe?? wood or ???? P

Australia is such an incredibly dry place if you don't live in the tropics or the sub tropics. We are in the midst of an 11year drought and its looking like all hope is gone with regards the normalizing of the weather patterns. Ever since 1788 when Australia became a British colony we have had to cope with the cycle of drought and flooding rain. The British ruined this country by trying to make this country like well, Britian. They were very frightened by the endless forests and set about denuding the environment. They didn't understand, or care about the fragility of the ancient landscape and now soil degradation through erosion is as much a problem as drought. As the environment dried out, water available for evaporation and therefore rain substantially declined. Australia is geologically incredibly stable. The Mountains have eroded away and not forced up like in geologically active continents. The highest Mountain being only about 8000ft. This means that there aren't really high mountain ranges like America to "catch" vast amounts of water, though the whole of the east coast from the tip of Cape York(our most northerly point) to western Victoria has an almost unbroken chain of "mountains". The main advantage of such a stable continent is earthquakes are almost, but not quite, unheard of. You go to New Zealand for that........14000ft mountains and earthquakes very often. The power station you visited would probably have been a part of the Snowy River Scheme of the post war years. It's actually one of the wonders of the industrial world. That's all well and good when it rains, however it doesn't much anymore. Red Energy, is my power provider, and their marketing strategy is "renewable" energy. Well it was very interesting to note that the Snowy Scheme is almost empty and they use(Red) cheap Off Peak electricity from poor quality brown coal to pump water to power their bloody turbines! That's how bad its got! Rice is a major crop and there is almost none planted and harvested in past years, farmers having zero water allocation. Nobody knows when or if it is ever going end. The worst drought since European settlement. Very bleak. The economy is booming due to the mining boom however. You probably knew a lot of this stuff, John, this rambling being for those of you who here who may be interested! P. X

hi all, well its all becoming apparent how the project will pan out. I just won a pair of 511 horns on ebay so it looks like 902/511. It is kind or a relief really as all the confusion about what to do is evaporating and a direction becoming apparent! here's one for ya. Can someone think of a way to have a split lascala with the the bass mod in the top enclosure? I liked the link posted about turning the bin around. what we need is an airtight seal that will pivot. I don't know how big the hole would need to be....10-12"? to prevent restriction. maybe something could be fabricated in wood. Also, i may have to increase the size of the cabinet to compensate for the volume of the 511 horn. p

Hi john, Where i live is on a small isolated farm of 170 acres about 125KMS(75mi) NW of Melbourne in the state of Victoria. Australia only went metric in about 1973 so some of us are conversant in both forms of measurement.....a bit like a pilot really. Closest town is Daylesford pop 5000 and I'm 6 miles to the north of daylesford. Closest large town is Ballarat pop about 65000 and Bendigo pop100 000. Check Google Earth, punch in Mount Franklin Victoria Australia and you'll see where. The map last time i looked went from a photo to "graphical representation(and a poor one at that) about where i live. Nonethless it'll get you to within a few miles of where i am. P.

JUBILATION alright!! It was great fun showing my 11yo son. I'm very jealous. The little dog is hilarious. I Love the way the grille looks and the complexity of the cabinetry was as awe inspiring. Its so good to see a project from beginning to end like this. the ideas i get!!!???? The rosewood although "not my cup of tea" was of particular interest. the way the huge size of these cabinets is "hidden" by the grille and the rosewood is very interesting. It reminds me of these Australian speakers built in Adelaide South Australia called Duntec Sovereign that cost about $30k that a friend of mine built from scratch. Each cabinet had 4 Dynaudio 12" drivers 4 mids and 2 tweeters. All time aligned. The bloody things were about 7' high and not very efficient. They were exact copies though, the crossover design gained by those who couldn't afford the silly price, industrial espionage. That was some time ago so i suppose it's OK to tell you guys now..... ooooh bugger. Anyway, i had nothing to do with that part of it, just the listening. What i can say is that you aint missing much. Terribly inefficient, only an amp that can drive a short circut can power the stupid things(3 phase welder could be OK) and they sounded sh*thouse at low volume level. I never heard these speakers at any stage sound good. For years he listened to the radio at nearly inaudible listening levels with these speakers, until he hooked up with this horrible woman who insisted proptlly i might add, it was her or the speakers. He sold them for $5000 and bought a pair of junkie bookshelf speakers!(dynaudio) What a d*ckhead. At a party one night he got a powerful PA amp and(attempted) to use them for their designed purpose.......listening to music, and the amp, after about 5-6 mins would overheat and shut down. Paul(me) just smirking in the background. these speakers required a special amp. they were marketed though, toward the high end of the market. If your paying the asking price then i guess you need a good(sh*t hot) amp and not a $80 reciever. Incidentally a Rotel 500+500 would not power these speakers but a Hafler DH-??(about 100wp/ch) would, if you kept the volume at around 11o'clock posi on the pre amp.(yay for the American product). Obviously your speakers aren't going to suffer anything like this. I'd love to hear something like this. The thing that I really like about big speakers is they have the capacity to have amazing transient attack......you know the complex sound thunder makes when there's the initial bang and the rumble(subsonic) of the sonic boom decaying around mountains and valleys on a hot summers afternoon. You can't get that impressiveness from smaller speakers though horn designs seem to lend themselves in smaller sizes(lascala size and above) much better than most. The Sovereigns are(were?) apparently very good but notoriously difficult to power(apparently Krell make an amp that works well with them). John Dunlevey was in the employ of the US navy as an antenna designer i think, so he must be pretty smart and have done a reasonable job designing these speakers . Someone might be bothered looking up all of this on google, because everything i've written about these speakers and the man who designed might be full of factual innacuricies. (I couldn't care less though) i'm just here for the interesting anecdote. paul (tales from down under) x

thanks john and pat! ummm where was I........yes Actually, last Sunday week ago, just for fun, i decided to draw up(only roughly) an "unfolded" LaScala design using all the critical measurements from the plans here, and believe it or not you need to add these "corner reflectors(only now there not corner reflectors)" to make the horn transition smooth. It kind of takes on the appearence of the mortar part of a mortar and pestle in cross section if you know what i mean. So you must be right, and i must congratulate myself for attention to detail and correct measurement. All this research and i must have learnt something! the unfolded design for this horn is not that much deeper than the folded design, but i didn`t however do the rear cone volume calcs i have to admit. Just the horn but the rear horn volume shouldn't be too difficult as there is quite a bit of space to play with. I only really did it to ensure i have my head around the folded design by looking at it in a different way. There might even be enough space to increase the volume some. I might try it someday but i don't want to loose sight of main goal at the moment. It's really good to here your opinion on how the "more stock" la Scala sounds too. It almost seems to be unbeatable esp. if i do the reversable bass mod. I have not heard these speakers at all really and your opinion is like gold. I really mean that! What are your thoughts on the 811? I was also thinking the Atlas mid on the 811 and CT125 and corresponding crossover. And what is the deal all those folks at Lansing forums go on and on about the 288-16g? They all reckon those units are a bargin for what you're getting. Do we use them???? I checked the specs. and they apparently go 20k also. With regards to db readings, i have a question. I understand that some enclosures, by their nature, are intrinsically efficient and others are not. Good transistor amps can generally handle the less efficient(sensitive) pretty well and vice versa for tubes(valves in my part of the world). In a frequency response vs db graph, the part where the roll off in db's occurs, say in this example: the flat part of the graph is between 102-106db on average, then i look at the roll off of the low frequency part of the graph, what denotes the actual bass specification of a given speaker? Is it 62, 73, 75db? (i just pulled these out of me head as they seem to be in the ball park) or even 90db if the main sensitivity is flat at an average of 106db for example? Is it the same for the high frequency and the mid for that matter? Or, is THIS question off the mark because anyone can play around with specifications to get the answer they want(esp manufacturers)? Is there an excepted convention that the layman(me) can casually glance at and see the real specs. as opposed to the sales pitch? I'm pretty sure a few people may be interested in this question, and other just afraid(yeah, me again) to ask. (John, this question took quite a bit of time to compose. I hope i got it right). i suppose i had my quota of questions for the day, again!??!!@#$%@@$%**&^% its 5.23am better go. seeya you soon, paul x ps. in case anyone was wondering i do have a thing for Jag V12's. I think Australia and the US are the last 2 industrialized countries to have cheap fuel. not for much longer though.

WELL EVERYBODY I have looked at all your threads pics and ideas. This is why i posted here. I'm constantly blown away by the smartness of people round here! I'm pretty smart, but not so much in the ways of woodworking, or speaker inception and design, i have to admit. Some of the things people think of, are incredible. So, John you reckon "the rectangular slot beside the doghouse could be a bit wider". I need to know more! are you referring to: A)the distance between the woofer mounting board and the rear? B)or, the 71/2"doghouse side(4 in the plans) to speaker side(8) slot? if B(above), then this has to be adjusted going to 1" from 3/4 anyhow to keep critical horn dimensions(ratios perhaps) so widening it in the planning stage is easy. How much do i widen it?, and what effect will it have? i don't think i will(won't) brace the doghouse roof externally as i think it looks repugnant. Though i suppose I could do it like that if I put grille cloth over the "W" bin. Might be fun to see it puff in and out like a heart during surgery while listening to the Thunderstorm in Beethovens 6th really LOUD. I understand the reasons for this mod but the 60's theme in this case, is more important than looks(hence inch ply). I might be able to brace internally the dog box roof somehow(steel might be good here and not take up too much space) but i'm not at the cutting stage till I've thrashed the issues with you guys. John are the "corner reflectors" the doghouse brace? I'm not sure! If not, what are they, and what is their principle of operation? So, if i undestand you correctly you reckon stock lascala woofer, mid(damped), Bobs tweeter(flush) and modded klipsch Xover. iT'S all starting to get a bit confusing now. On the one hand I want the La Scala look (and you have given me that), on the other hand the 511/902 Marvel(bruce i think) has pointed out the projected radius of the 511b horn being recessed inorder to flush fit is an unknown. I suppose the only the edge parts of the horn will be effected if i do that, but the reflections may stuff the sound. Does anyone know what will happen if, one(me), were to put a ct125 tweeter in a horn 171/2"Wx3"H? I know this tweeter sounds FINE as is but............(you know the looks thing again). ALK"s es500 crossover for 511b/902 in belle and lascala?.....thoughts anyone.......!!? Better go to bed know its 5.00am here......speak soon guys, Paul.

john, you say the 902 is a bit low on power. Do you know what the 908 is like power handling wise? some bloke on ebay said in a product description for a 902 that he was selling, actually, was a 908, and this was much better because it(908) had double the power handling. is that true? is it sonically interchangeable?? or just spin. The 902 i'm considering is the Great Plains if that is important. ALL other 902's i have ever seen advertised S/H on ebay have been at least 1.5-2 ohms lower than spec. I don't exactly know what this means soundwise except to say "they aint gettin' my money". nice pics. i really love the look of la scalas. again, i have to reiterate the roughness i was referring to earlier was about the harshness of the top end. i quite like the utilitarian look of la scalas and i want to recreate the retro look of these speaker without all of their anachronistic faults. P

thank's Bruce and John i do. there is a 15 hour time delay so things could get a bit strange with my replies. i'm an insomniac though and sit up most nights till about 5.30AM EVERYBODY THANKS FOR THE VERY WARM WELCOME. i'll have to modify them for 1" though. some of the measurements will alter, but i've heard if your going to the trouble of building them yourself you might as well mage 'em inch thick. I found some new 1" plywood sheet 1200x2400x25mm(4x8x1")seconds for about $44 as opposed to $150EA for cleanskins. the seconds will work ok for my 50/60's theme(don't tell anyone but just quietly $150 is F***ing ridiculous)! MDF is exactly half at $75 a sheet, cleanskin, but then i'll have to do something to make it look like wood, not compressed sawdust. i do understand MDF is great for speaker building and a woodworker friend of mine even said that there are techniques employed more than 100years old for painting cheap wood in a particular way to look like expensive wood.ie oak. P

JUBSCALAS forgive my ignorance??? but i haven't heard of these. a link perhaps?! Its not so much the roughness of the cabinets i was referring to, more the sound harshness of the upper horns. it's all academic really as i only heard Lascalas once. I really like the retro look of early la scala. I like the utilitarian look and style of the 50's, 60's, and 70's. it reminds me of my chilhood that. i want to have the joy of building them and recreating the era, as well as the benefits of having a really top notch speaker at the end. the joy i get from the speakers i now have has been going on since 1989. they just don't have the efficiency and therefore durability to be able to use for both vey loud music and valve amp use. i'll build some mono valve amps next year if(when) the la scalas work out. a bit like having your cake and eating it too!.......P