Dennie
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Posts posted by Dennie
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Well, the long wall, option 2, is suposed to be best. Get the speakers as far apart as possible for the largest soundstage.
I have to use the short wall, because of a fireplace. [:@] But I've always wondered how much better it would sound using the "recommended" long wall?!?!!!
Keep us posted and congratulations on moving into a House! [<
)]Dennie
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If those are too big, you can stop by any Radio Shack and pick up the right ones.
I got mine from Parts Express ------> CLICK HERE
Dennie -
Well, they are supposed to be tight, but those may be too big to insert.
Although, maybe not. Have you tried pushing hard, to get those "spring loaded" ends to stay in?
Try it without the wires first. I little wiggling and a swift push might get them to slip in.
Keep us posted,
Dennie
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Fantastic find, Congratulations! [<
)]Dennie
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Hello Theppd, welcome to the Klipsch Forum, we're glad you're here! [<
)]I don't have any experience with the two or three speakers you are asking about, but I'm sure someone will chime in soon. I just wanted to say welcome and I hope you are staying warm. I've heard News reports on how cold it is in parts of Russia right now.
Dennie
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i"m not following what you guys are saying about the heat, I dont see any heaters
They are in the baseboards. In certain parts of the country (not mine[
]), people have "baseboard" heaters that radiate heat though out the room, along the walls. I hope that helps,
Dennie -
The thing about subjective judgements like this is that no one but you can get inside your head and hear music the way you do. No one else can know your history of what kind of music you've always listened to, and how that shapes your interpretation of what you hear. That said, however, I wonder if your standard for how speakers sound is how well they measure up to how accurately the musical sounds approach your own experience. For example, acoustic jazz and bluegrass sounds like actual acoustical instruments to me, while pop and rock could have a lot of artificial sounds that are harder to relate to real-life experience. That's how I listen to audio equipment, FWIW.For rock and pop these are the best I have ever owned. For acoustic jazz and bluegrass I can't really put my finger just what is wrong. It could be the difference between a well tuned 2-way versus a 3-way. Now you may know, I have a jube clone/ Eliptrac-Faital two way system so my ear is tuned to how well that performs. When I have my jube setup out for loan and listen to my Forte IIs its different to be sure and enjoyable. I just wonder if its a pipe dream to improve them further.
So, it's interesting that you seem to think that acoustic instruments you've surely heard in real life in the past, don't sound to you like they should whereas other sounds seem to meet a possibly different expectation.
In any case, my single attempt to upgrade my AK-4 Klipschorns with a non-Klipsch product was not satisfactory from MY standpoint. Mind you, nearly every other person who installed Crites tweeters in place of K-77's thought they were a vast improvement! But, I and at least 2 others didn't have that reaction. In my case, yes, the new tweets were much clearer and added undeniable clarity. Even the very deep bass was clearer, an astonishing result from changing the TWEETER. It crossed over clear up at 4500 Hz, too! My only explanation was that overtones from even deep bass instruments extended clear up to 1K or 2KHz, and were more audible (overtones define any notes more clearly). The problem was that it was NOT a natural-sounding extension. It seemed out of place, sonically AND musically.
The problems didn't stop there -- I could hear WHERE the new tweeters were coming from, almost by looking at them, whereas the old ones blended into the wall of sound from the front of the K-horns. This was very distracting to me. Moreover, the nature of the notes' transients from the new tweets differed from that of the mid drivers/horns. They didn't sound like they were coming from a seamlessly integrated speaker system -- they were harder and stood out more, even from the same instrument! Finally, the balance between the tweeters and mids seemed to shift as I walked from side to side of each K-horn. It sounded like phasing problems to me.
Admittedly, I have always wondered if I did something wrong with the installation or phasing when I installed the new tweets. But it was a relief to go back to the originals, even though I was losing the dramatic greater clarity of the new ones.
I mention all this because I sense that there are many factors that go into how great a speaker system sounds. Not knowing what you hear, I'll simply note that something new can frequently sound "better" because you hear something new and think it's an improvement. Sometimes it's not. I still wonder what people actually hear compared with me. But I suggest another round of listening between your old and new if you can do it.Great post Larry, thanks for taking the time to "tap" it out.
What you say makes a lot of sense. [Y]
Dennie
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OK, i have had both speakers for the last 2 + years. and I must say deciding between the two has been very hard as far as what kinda sound i was after for the music I was listening to... I run them both off my McIntosh MC352 and I find the Forte to have more of a fuller sound, with the extra 2db lower extention. But!.!....... the CF-4 has more kickass output overall. The crossovers or all stock in both speakers, I have replaced the Forte' tweeter with the titanium diaphragms and I am looking at replacing the mids in the Forte and re-soldering the xovers in both the CF-4's and forte's...
Are you saying the crossovers are all original? Well, that would make deciding between the two speakers very hard, indeed.
Updating the crossovers in my 1979 La Scalas was the best investment in sound I made. If you haven't "updated" the crossovers yet, do it now. You'll be glad you did. REALLY!
Dennie
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Hey Tagger, I don't know if you are a member of Audiokarma or not, but I bet you'd get more answers there.
Here's the link to the "music" section -----> CLICK HERE
Dennie
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....after looking at the picture again, is there any way you can spread them further apart?
It will give you a bigger soundstage and if you get them near the walls, it will reenforce the bass. (not that it needs it [
]) Just a thought,
Dennie -
Congratulations, those are beautiful speakers! [<
)]Dennie
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Congratulations Josh!
Dennie
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Thank you Dennie. Very kind of you to supply the insight. In this case I believe I have tried all the options. It could just take getting some used to, but it's just not there for my or my wife at this point. With that said the sound clearity is great--much better than the Yamaha ,but take for example the Eagle Hell Freezes Hotel Cal. The Outlaw produces a much bette intro, then the bass drum hits and it's very minor.
I've read the manual a few times (online as I wanted to get it all right once the unit arrived). Adjusted the boost options, adjusted the bass, set it all back to neutral over a few times now.
I'll admit this could all be me and by no means am I attempting to bash Outlaw. Using CDs with the CF-3s and my ears, it's just not working out. I guess the best way I could put it is the sound is very "Bose" like. Excellent clearity, but you can have it turned up very high and still talk to a person standing accross the room. Thanks once more for all the support guys. I'll eventually get it right :-) Have a great day.
This statement right here makes me think it might be you. [^o)]
I had a friend over the other night and she commented on how "loud" the stereo was, but we could still hear each other talk. Nice clean, clear dynamics without bloat, congestion or mud! The sign of a good set up, usually.
Maybe it's just going to take some time to get use to the clarity of a good receiver and the CF-3's?
Also, we by no means think you are bashing Outlaw. It just may not be for you. Not their fault, not yours, it just is.
I recommend spending some alone time with it. Maybe tonight, sit down with your favorite adult beverage and a favorite disc and close your eyes and see if the music takes you away?!
Dennie
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I'm not going to say anything that someone hasn't already said....! But I thought I'd chime in.
Keep the 7's and treat the room and you've got one hell of a Home Theater! DONE!
If, down the road, you still miss the Corns, shop the used market for some 1's that you remember and bring them back up to spec. and give them a try.
Can you add draperies to the "Glass" wall, to tame the reflections? You may be losing some of your Mid-range detail in reflections. Muddy sound is muddy sound and hides the details.
Good luck and keep us posted,
Dennie -
Hey Jeremy,
Well, that's not the best news. Did you go through the set up menu and get everything set up properly? Did you read the manual. Hi-Fi gear now a days has so many features, if you don't read the manual from front to back, you might miss something important. Have you adjusted the Bass and Treble? Often times people think they must remain in the neutral position, but that is not true. Adjust them to fit your needs.
The big curve on "Break in" will be to your ears. Give it a week or so to get use to how it sounds. Remember, Outlaw has a return policy and if you're really unhappy with it, ship it back. But I would give it some time to get use to it.
You may also need to move your speakers around some. Just because they sounded good with one piece of gear, doesn't mean they are positioned right for the new gear. I find speaker placement is everything!!!
What sources are you using? CDplayer? Ipod? DAC? Turntable? Music Server?
Hopefully other owners will chime in with their thoughts.
Dennie
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Well, I'm going to think you have enough sense to weed out the BS and answer your question.
I subscribe to Stereophlie, Downbeat, Home Theater and The Absolute Sound magazines. Why? Because I still like to hold a magazine sometimes. Like Doctors appts. etc...!
Like others have said, the mags. are money makers because of the ads and sway their reviews accordingly. But if you're like me, you still want to know about the "new" stuff and whats coming out, they can be helpful. Just proceed with caution.
Oh and I do like getting my "Audio Advisor" mag/ad every month or so. You can go Audioadvisor.com and sign up for the mailings.
Dennie
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Can ya say comb filter? I knew ya could!
With apologies to Fred Rogers.
Lee
I agree, this is a bad idea. If you looking for clairity, two speakers playing the same thing, next to each other is NOT the way to go.
Use one, you'll be happier. [Y]
Dennie
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Great shots. How are th crossovers attached to the base board?
I suppose you could screw them down, but I just used a little Blu Tack...
Dennie
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A much better photo of the new crossovers...
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Here is a photo of the original Type AA, in my 1979 La Scala. The Serial number is on the back board, right in front of the crossover...
I know you can't see the serial number, but it is stamped in the top of the back board on the edge. To the left of where the speaker wire is going in.
Yes, I now have ends on the wires and screws to hold them down! [
]Dennie
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Here's a couple of photo's of the Crites Type A/AA Convertible crossovers...
Dennie -
If you don't know what year they are, how about the serial numbers?
They should be stamped into the top of the back board, where it meets the opening for the squawker/tweeter. They may be hard to read. But will help identify what year they are.
Dennie -
Thanks.Can anybody describe the difference in sound quality I should expect from a re-cap?
Thanks
What year are your La Scalas?
With mine, it was like taking a BLANKET off of the speakers. Really, a big difference!
I too wonder if I should spend $300 for new crossovers. How could it sound any better, I asked myself!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha! It was the BEST $300 I've spent on audio gear......EVER!
Dennie
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You didn't mention what year your La Scalas were?
But YES! I replace my original crossovers in my 1979 La Scalas and it was like taking a blanket off of my speakers. The music became clear and everything sounded so much better. ....and the BASS? WOW! It was now full and rich and warm and and and....!
I too wonder if they could possibly sound any better. Boy, was I missing out.
YES!! Update, replace. Whatever needs to be done to bring them back to factory specs or better.
I bought Bob and Michael Crites Type A/AA convertible crossovers, after reading that the A Type were better with tubes. I run SS amps and use them as Type AA, but if I ever go tubes, I can switch a couple of wires and run Type A.Here's the link to Bob and Michael's site --------> CLICK HERE
Keep us posted,
Dennie
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]), people have "baseboard" heaters that radiate heat though out the room, along the walls. 
]) 
CF-3 Speaker & the best receiver/amp option when on a budget)
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Hey J, I'm glad you found something that makes you happy.
Please keep us posted on the "Outlaw" and if it is not broken, I'll remember not to recommend it for R&R fans!
Enjoy the music! [
]
Dennie