Boomzilla
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Posts posted by Boomzilla
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...I never liked the sound of the C III, it's obviously bass heavy and using that dinky K-700 for the midhorn is a huge fail.
I'm tending to agree...
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If you never post where you live, and never come to any gatherings or join any audio clubs and societies, you are never going to hear too much. Our local audio society has had over twenty listening sessions so far this year...
Agreed - Alas, there IS no local audio club or society here. I DO maintain season tickets to the local symphony and attend frequent music performances at the local university. My daughter is also a concert violinist and my son-in-law a pianist. Real music in real space - I'm familiar with.
Maybe it's time to FORM a local audio society and see who else is interested?
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...Audyssey (or however it is spelled) SUCKS for music...
Well, that opinion certainly isn't unique to you - lots of folks feel the same way. Is it possible to limit Audissey's control to the bass frequencies only? That would provide some room correction in the bass without diddling with the rest of the range.
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Alas - No PC here - I have only a MacBook laptop with nothing but OS-X and some USB ports.
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Using the RTA is the only way to truly know what is happening in the room. Bass is a tricky creature.
Agreed - I've asked thrice about RTA packages for the Mac and received zero suggestions. Googling it, I find a plethora of software, most of it intended for pro-audio applications.
I'm willing to spend the $$$ and the time to master a RTA program, but don't know which to choose. I'm overwhelmed. I may just give up and get an AV preamp with its own calibrated microphone and "dummy-proof" calibration built in.
In the mean time, the Cornwalls come down. My Heresy speakers go back up. A small subwoofer comes in to supplement the bass. I know that this combo works!
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...I agree with Mark on this one. Unless the cabinet had some inherent flaw, I doubt you are going to get a substantial difference from bracing...
OK - makes sense to me. Assuming that what I'm hearing is NOT the cabinet, but rather the speaker-room interaction, why don't I hear this "bloat" with other speakers that I've used in the same room, in the same locations, and with the same electronics? Is there something radically different about how a Cornwall interacts in a room than with how a Thiel, say, interacts with the same room?
This is not a trivial question! Unless there is some logical explanation for these differences, then, despite your "no inherent flaw" hypothesis, the Cornwall cabinets ARE the problem. To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, what remains after all other explanations are proven false must then be the truth.
Assuming that there IS some logical explanation for why the Cornwalls sound radically different in the bass than all other speakers used in the room, then let's further assume that I want to use some "electronic magic" to tame the speaker-room interface. Am I better off using an AV front-end that has built-in Audissey or TACT? If not using an AV front end, then what exactly do I need to analyze the room? Will the "bass only" analyzers such as the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 work with full range speakers, or are they intended for subwoofers only?
I'm not asking to aggravate, but because I'd truly like to know
Thanks - Boomzilla
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...Big amps work, little amps work, but don't fool yourself that you won't ever like the sound of a big amp until you try it.
Hi russ69
Agreed wholeheartedly. That said, how many opportunities do we ever have to listen to various amps? Most people get to choose between one or two, and then they're most often AV receivers rather than real amplifiers. Yes, you'll know "better" when you hear it, but if you never get to hear it...
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...Since the original poster is well aqcuainted with the room and placement I would consider use a mic and an RTA (software program) to make an in-room curve...
Thanks - a very reasonable suggestion. Unfortunately a "static" room response at different frequencies won't necessarily catch retained energy output from cabinet resonances, will it? If so, then where do I find a calibrated microphone and software for Mac OS-X? If not, then is a FFT mapping software required? A tape-on contact microphone to show cabinet wall resonance? How do I get where I need to go from here?
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Thank you, Moray -
I've sent you a PM for other ideas on the Cornwalls. I'm also getting to the point where I must ask the question: Should I abandon the Cornwalls and select another pair of speakers? It seems that almost a full "re-engineering" of the Cornwall will be required before it will do what I want. Would it be easier, cheaper, and more effective just to select other speakers?
Boomzilla
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I'd like to know (hear with my own ears) what your idea of "pitch-accurate bass" is. Since the frequency response of the bass range, regardless of speaker design, is influenced primarily by the speaker's interaction with the room, that tells me you don't really know what "taut and pitch-accurate" bass...is.
Well, I guess that puts me in my place, artto. Since I've already said that I've heard "pitch-accurate" bass from other speakers in the SAME room and in the SAME locations as the Cornwalls, then it stands to reason that I don't know what I hear.
...I suggest you go back to whatever it was you were using before. Nothing to be ashamed of. Some people just like more distortion. It's your right. Exercise it.
No further comment, thanks.
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Agreed. The two "best" speakers I've ever had in my listening room are radically different - A pair of vintage La Scalas (with a DefTech subwoofer) and a pair of Theil 3.6 speakers with a 300 wpc dread-naught solid-state amp. Both could satisfy! Oh - AND a pair of Magneplanars (don't remember model).
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I believe the front and back panels are set into a groove/dado cut into top/bottom and sides.
I think you're right about the motorboard being set into a dado, but the rear appears to be a removable, screw-in panel.
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...Stop the cabinet vibrations before they happen! It can also be best to apply this type of reinforcement asymetrically...
Thanks - I'll get my saw on!
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Yet another option that comes to mind is to abandon the Cornwalls and revert to some La Scalas. They'd need a subwoofer, but I know that the La Scala sound in my room is da schizz!
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The largest panel in the Cornwalls is the rear...If the Corwall IIIs are like the Heresy III you don't have access except via the woofer cutout, so putting a large number of additional braces would be difficult...
I believe you're right, CF. I was looking at the back panel of my CW3s and noticed that (unlike previous models) there are NO attachment screws visible. This means that I either excavate the back panel looking for screws or I abandon ideas of work inside the cabinet.
The "add some stiffening to the back" sounds like an option. I have plywood to spare. I also have a spare ATS panel in need of a home. Would bolting the ATS panel to the back of the Cornwall (foam against the current back) be effective? Would it be as effective as adding a 3/4" layer of plywood?
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Boomzilla I would rethink wrapping another layer of 3/4 plywood around your 3's. You would be better served building new speakers.....
Normally, I'd agree with you. My particular speakers, however, were purchased "half-price" because of some corner damage. Covering the damaged cabinets would not only improve cabinet rigidity, but also improve cosmetics.
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...If your CWIII's are singing along, some dowels and gorilla glue inside the cabs will shut them up and take up minimal space in the cabs...
Thank you, Ski Bum - An option I hadn't considered. I can see how some side-to-side dowels could be easily fitted, but how does one do front-to back ones?
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Hi Chris -
I have full confidence that the room is no longer the issue. Prior to putting up the ATS pads, then yes, the reflectivity was an issue. Having run at least two other speakers in the treated room in the exact same positions as the Cornwalls, and having not had bass issues with either of them, I'm convinced that the room is NOT a contributing factor.
"Bass reflex boxes" are too diverse to be thrown into a single category, IMHO. I've heard ported boxes (some with just ports, others with passive radiators in place of ports) NONE of which sounded like the Cornwalls. I would agree that all of the reflex and passive-radiator boxes sounded significantly different than horn-loaded La Scalas, but beyond that, there is very little commonality. Because some of the other vented boxes that I've used in my room DID provide taut and pitch-accurate bass, I think that one of two things may be preventing the Cornwalls from doing so as well:
Either the design is optimized for high efficiency at the expense of bass accuracy (possible) or the economies taken in the manufacturing process have resulted in insufficient cabinet rigidity and allowed the cabinet to vibrate along with the signal (likely).
Either problem should be "solvable" with a bit of reverse engineering. I'm willing to invest the time to do a bit of "tweaking," and should that fail, I'm also willing to encase the entire Cornwall cabinets with another 3/4" layer of plywood to prevent them from vibrating. The latter option, obviously, has resale implications for the speakers, but if that's what it takes to make them stop vibrating, then I'm willing to do it.
Cheers - Boomzilla
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That's exactly the type of info I was looking for, Bill. Thank you kindly - I'll look about for Acurus products and see about their availability.
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One further thought...
I've been at the audio hobby most of my adult life. Now, at 60 years of age, I have very, very few years left to enjoy it before presbyacusis sets in and it all becomes academic. I'm now at a point where the cost of the hobby becomes significantly less bothersome, but the enjoyment of it becomes increasingly precious. That being the case, I'm willing to expend resources that were previously impossible to even contemplate to get as much enjoyment as I can from my hobby while I can.
Younger enthusiasts are typically unable to contemplate the types of budgets that I can. Youth (in audio as well as in many other things) is wasted on the young... Also, don't think that I'm just a rich old fart who wants to blow money on his hobby; I never could have contemplated being this affluent when I was young. It happens, though, that almost ALL of us accumulate wealth over the course of our lives. Most who reach my age now have more disposable income than when they were younger. There are many exceptions, I realize, but my pattern is the norm.
Therefore, I'm moving into a "give me results regardless of cost" mode here. Not to say that I'm eager to waste money, but I will spend to achieve my goals.
That being the case, I'm willing to consider things that I don't strictly "need" in order to achieve the sound that I want to hear. I've posted two other threads regarding electronics and modifications for my Cornwalls should anyone be so kind as to chime in.
Cordially - Boomzilla
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Yes - A better system for not a lot of money is the holy grail. Getting there, however, is the Bataan death march... My technique has been to shop (in order of preference) garage sales, Craigslist, and eBay. That way, when I get something that doesn't really work for me, I can part company with it at minimum loss (and sometimes at a small profit). Unfortunately, I sometimes find & sell things that I wish I'd kept...
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...Some folks like big warm woolly bass and others like tight chest crunching bass...
As always just my 2 cents.
Thanks stromin
I prefer accurate bass without overhang, with perfect pitch definition, and with such realistic sound that when a thunderclap hits during a movie, you look out the window to see if it's raining. I've had the privilege of having not one but two world-class subwoofers in my room: A M&K MX-350 THX and a Definitive Technology Trinity Reference Supercube. Although they gave me the bass I wanted, they also were intrusive in a living space and produced true subsonics (which my better half does NOT like).
I settled on the Cornwall 3 speakers because I estimated that they would satisfy without needing a subwoofer. In terms of extension, I'm right. In terms of quality...
Cordially - Boomzilla
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Hi Bill
I'm in Baton Rouge.
Price range is anything under about $3K. I'd certainly prefer to buy used.
Thanks - Boomzilla
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Hi Chris -
No, corner placement is not an option in my room. My room is exceptionally kind to bass - all four corners are vented by WIDE openings into other areas of the house (foyer, kitchen, hallway, and stairwell). Having lived here for 20 years with a WIDE variety of loudspeakers and subs, I know the room's characteristics well. With the ATS pads that I now have behind the speakers and behind the listening couch, and with the side walls six and twelve feet from the speakers, reflections are not an issue.
Summarizing - I appreciate your comments, but the room is NOT the cause of the Cornwall's bass performance.
Cordially - Boomzilla
How to treat Cornwall 3 cabinets for better bass?
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
+1 for CF! A larger midrange horn with a crossover frequency of 500 Hz. would have made the Cornwall 3 an AWESOME speaker. In any case, I'm back to the idea of letting my Cornwall 3s go. For their size, and for their price, they just don't do what I want them to. I could go off the deep end with mods, but why bother? The resale value stays highest if they're stock.