Dsrtjeeper
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Posts posted by Dsrtjeeper
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OK, I admit it, I am a picture nut...
Where are the pictures?
Well I missed out on the Heresys. I instead purchased a pair of Cornwalls on a whim. They are huge and the bass just overwhelms my 12'x10' room! The x-overs needed help and they are with Bob Crites right now. Then some merciless member here pointed out a sweet pair of Quartets on Audiogon with original manuals and boxes. They should be arriving today. [
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Jeeper buy the MLs then.
I did and sold them. I've tried ML's twice and just couldm't get into the sound after a while. I prefer Maggies, Acoustats and Apogees over the ML's. I never said the RF-7's were bad. I said that "I suspected that they weren't in the same class." I don't care much for the sound of Klipsch post Heritage. I have not heard every speaker in the more affordable lines, but the older Heritage line has been a revelation to me.
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I personally like the JJ EL34's. I also prefer vintage NOS input tubes over newer versions. Many of the old military tubes are superior to my ears. Just ask anyone who has heard NOS Western Electric 300B's. It's more personal preference and theres good and bad in all types.
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the 7's are bloated, and slow on the bottom end
I owned three pairs of RF-7's over the last few years. "Bloated" and "slow" tells me they need more power. More power (300-500 watts) makes the 7's tight, fast and snappy.
However, I think that I may know where your coming from. I always thought the 7's had "subwoofer-like" bass.
If anything needs high power; it's the Sources. I've owned them and they require a good high current amplifier of the utmost quality. The ML woofers are excellent quality and very fast and tight to match the speed of the electrostatic panels. You would find the same fast and clean bass from Magneplanars as well. I suspect the RF-7's aren't quite in the same class as ML. JMHO...
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How is it that single ended triode amps can rock on Cornwalls and larger if one needs such high current? I'm running a whopping 3 watts/channel. The same amp runs my 91db efficient Kef Q55.2 floorstanders as well.
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i'm gonna throw my 2 cents in. as always pictures will tell the story. if these are factory 79 birch raw ( and you love birch raw like i do ) in mint condition just the way they left the factory and you can pick them up locally i don't have a problem spending 5 bills on them. its like 400 plus 100 to ship and then the damage. i had a pair of 84 birch raw that i regret selling. they are beautiful speakers
post some pictures if you can
I purchased Quartets for the same money with original boxes and manuals. Thanks for the reply.
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T=1979 not 73.
Thanks.
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O.K. Thanks for the help guys!
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Although I have experienced more image depth with certain speakers when they pulled out from the wall, I wonder how much of the loss of depth when they are agaist the wall is because you know the wall is right there, and instruments "can't" plausibly be beyond the wall.
The influence of the visual on a somewhat different aspect of image was once demonstrated at an audio fair in the early days of stereo. Ampex had a fairly acoustically transparent curtain up covering one end of the room. Two very widely spaced speakers were behind the curtain. The image was very detailed, with no hole in the middle (something they worried about a lot in those days), and yes, some depth. When they pulled the curtain back, revealing the speakers, the image degraded, pooling around the speakers, with hole in the middle all over the place. The best stereo image at the fair that year (although we didn't use the word image in this regard then) was found in two rooms: the JBL room, with their Paragon up against the wall (and on a riser), and in the Klipsch room, with Klipschorns in their corners.
While I agree there are many psychoacoustic events involved with the perception of music; I ask anyone when's the last time they saw speakers against the wall or in a corner at CES? Has anyone read any reviews lately where the speaker was placed in this manner?
Here's something to think about....Other than Klipsch; I can think of two other speaker designs that have cult followings and a third making a comeback. All have to do with playing music without boxey colorations and sounding very open and natural. They are all soundstaging champs and cannot be placed against the front wall without serious consequences.
Omnipolar- The infamous Ohm Walsh (My favorite speaker)
Bipolar- The almighty Maggies! Talk about soundstaging and beauty.
Open baffle and hybrids of this design- Tekton, Dahliquist DQ-10, Vandersteen
My point being that there is more than one way to skin a cat and I think it has more to do with listener preference and room acoustics than what is perceived. JMHO
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I have the opportunity to purchase a beautiful pair of HBR Heresy's with consecutive serial numbers: 73T280 AND 73T281
Are these '73 models then?What is HBR?
The guy wants $500.00 locally so there would be no shipping cost. Good deal?
I see these go lower in the bass than the newer Heresy's.
Good performers/deal or not?
Thanks!
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Interesting thread. I've been dabbling in this hobby for nearly 30 years and have yet to find a speaker that I like in a corner or against the wall. This is proving problematic for me in trying Klipsch speakers without a seperate sub. Smaller woofers around 6" seem to work nicely in my 12'x10' room without exciting bass nodes. The larger woofers often overwhelm my room. Place a large woofer against the wall or in a corner and instant BOOM! If I use a smaller Klipsch with a rear mounted passive sub; what do you suppose will happen? Those models need to be close to the front wall. I'm in a catch 22 here.
I too enjoy depth and excellent soundstaging. It helps me feel that the performance is more real. I never get that with speakers against the wall.
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Older electrolytics (which yours are) can take some time to charge up and behave normally. If your speakers have not had any play time for a prolonged period of time they may just need some run time to get their act together and play at the same level. I would suspect the caps before I looked to the diaphragms. New polyester caps are cheap and will be a big upgrade from the stock electrolytic crossover caps. That way if you sell them later you can advertise an upgrade and not have spent a lot on a speaker which may be on its way out the door. If you decide to keep them you can look into better caps and crossover mods and such.You can see that changing out your electrolytic caps every 25 years is a good idea. Best regards Moray James.
I ordered Crites x-over rebuild kit today. Hopefully that does it. All speakers are working. I did discover the bases are missing on the Cornwalls. Ooops! I didn't even give them a thought before purchase. I'm sure that getting them off the floor will help with the overwhelming bass in my small room as mentioned above. Maybe the mids and highs will come up in volume with less resistance from new caps. This may balance the sound out some.
Thanks!
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A 1984 Cornwall is likely to have the B2 network with a K33E, K57, K77.
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/3/495595/Klipsch_B2_network.jpg
Mine definately has the B-3 and is labeled as such. With some help; I discovered that the connections on the screw terminal were coroded. I cleaned those and the mid horn works but is quieter than the other speaker. I'm going to switch that driver with the louder mid and see if the problem follows the driver.
Thanks!
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found a drawing which will be close enough for you to see what goes where on your board. Best regards Moray James.
Mooray;
I think your drawing is for a Cornwall ll x-over. I have the B-3 x-over which seems to be wired differently. The large cap goes from the negative input to the positive woofer on the terminal strip.
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Eric: there will be a large cap feeding into the auto transformer 3 or 4 uf depending upon your xover but will be marked that is the cap which has gone bad. Youu can replace that one (maintain polarity if it is an electrolytic) or use a plastic cap like a mylar (which is non polar so either direction). chances are the other caps are on the way too but this will get you up and running. Good luck buddy. Best regards Moray James. I can mail you a drawing if you need it.
Gracias Senior! That was the only cap I didn't try to bypass thinking it must be for the woofer. That thing is the size of a can of Red Bull! I bet the new ones are much smaller. I have some Solen caps around here somewhere. Is it better to use two in parallel or one 3 or 4 uf?
Thanks!
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Well it appears the x-over is bad as the mid horn was not working in the one speaker. I temporarily hooked the mid to the input terminals on the inside back panel and the mid came alive. How can I tell which component on the x-over is bad?
Thanks!
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I checked all connections and polarity is correct and terminals are tight. I had thought about raising the cabinets off the flloor and will try tomorrow. I definately can't place them in the corner. Waaaaay boomy. I just read several threads where people mention the one note and boomy bass. This is what I'm experiencing but I suspect the problem is my small room.
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Hi! I just purchased my first pair of Klipsch. They appear to be 1984 Cornwalls. The problem is that one speaker is louder than the other. The tweeters are new and all drivers are functioning. These have the K-57-K mid horns. The boards are the B-3 version. Could it be the x-over? I couldn't pass up the deal on these and they sound wonderfully musical. The only problem is they are too boomy in my small room.
Thanks!
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I have owned Quad 57's Quad 63's a good number of Acoustat's and I have modified Acoustat's as well. I worked on a set of Dayton-Wright electrostats and had them in my system for a while. I have had Magnepan and a host of Fostex full range speakers. The Forte ll while not perfect (what is) stock has to me one of the best balanced sounds I have found. The Quartet uses the same horns as the Forte ll but runs a ten inch woofer and twelve inch passive where the Forte ll uses a twelve inch woofer and a fifteen inch passive. I think the size of the Quartet is very domestic especially given that it wants to sit near the wall out of the way of the room. As I said with horns this works to your advantage unlike most direct radiators which need to be out into the room.
I still think you should pick up the Cornwall's as you can audition them and see what you think and still recover your investment later. You would probably like the Quartet's a lot. They do deserve new Titanium diaphragms and a new crossover (Al Klappenberger of ALK Engineering has a design for the Forte's which will work in a Quartet with minimal changes) and this applies to all the Heratige speakers. That done they will be top notch. You can upgrade as time and funds permit. The Quartet's would benefit from being placed on stands to raise the level of the horns. They look excellent with the stock riser removed and then placed upon four post stands, see Skylan Stands for good examples. Quartets will get you into the upper mid thirty hert range. They are efficient. I think that the K-704 mid horn used inthe Quartet Forte ll and Chorus ll is possibly one of the best horns Klipsch has designed. They reproduce midrange with the detail and resolution of the best electrostats but with body I have not experienced from stats. Cornwall's actually have less bass extension compared to Quartet's but have greater impact. You can try the Cornwals while you look for a set of Quartet's and compare the two. Any of these speakers will happy with the amp that you have in the size of room you have. Any of these speakers can generate solid controlled bass and if you are finding this lacking look to your amp as the issue not with the speakers. I hope this is helpful. Good luck finding your speaker. Best regards Moray James.
Mooray;
You read my mind. I've been doing alot of reading and I pretty much narrowed it down to the Quartets. They sound perfect for my room and amp. I like that they are smaller but still do bass. I feel pretty confident with that choice. Now I need to find a pair. I found a couple on Ebay but some people are either over priced or afraid to ship.
Thanks to all!!!
Eric
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I'd rather not use a speaker that needs a sub for simplicity, so now my interest is peaked about the RF series. You say that "they are not the king of soundstaging or top end extension and air." So what is a guy to do? lol! Actually I think the Heresy's are the perfect size for my room and the Cornwalls take up too much real estate. Too tell the truth; I was listening last night and I do enjoy a speaker that can disappear. I don't mean to be difficult, but this is a fact finding mission for me.
Just about everything needs a sub even Klipschorns have there limits, the only exception would be some of the bigger full range loudspeakers. I hope I don't get too far from the Klipsch faithful because I think you would be happy with a number of Klipsch offerings but from what you are saying, you should be looking at a Magnepan, an electrostatic, or a Vandersteen. Those wont work with your amp and they will require you to spend a lot more money on your system. If you have 6000-10000 to spend on your system you can get what you are asking for.
Perhaps a pair of these?
LOL! I'd have to survive the divorce first! Well to explain things a bit better; I use to suffer from Audio Nervosa. Yep; I was one of those tweaky audiophiles. I took a long hiatus from the hobby but I was ruined when it came to speakers. After owning Martin Logans, Many Maggies and Ohm speakers; it's really hard to settle for anything less. Each of those speakers had their own weaknesses with the Ohms being my absolute favorite. I promised myself that I would build this system on a budget so I've been looking to used speakers. When I think of SET amps; I think of Klipsch. I'm just trying do narrow down my search by finding a model that closely matches my needs. I no longer tear each recording apart and analyze it. I now enjoy music but there are certain criteria that bring me closer to the performance. To be honest; I'm not interested in sounds lower than 40hz as I don't listen to modern music or classical for that matter. I do enjoy the electric bass though which I have enjoyed on many speakers missing the lowest octaves. The Heresy's seem like a stretch though with their low range cutoff point. They are the perfect size for sure. I never have had any luck blending a sub to a set of speakers. Many echo my experiences with this. I wish there were Klipsch dealers that carried the Heresy's locally.
By the way; I always ended up selling any Maggies I purchased because their size was distracting and they didn't supply enough bass for me. Should have seen my wife when I brought home the Acoustats! [
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With 3 watts, you don't have that many choices. Either the RFs or the H3s would work for you but they are not the king of sound staging or top end extension and air.The Heresy IIIs are very neutral sounding so don't worry about that. They are solid performers that will work with your amp. You'll also want a small sub for the lowest frequencies. .to achieve excellent soundstaging and balance. I like the performers to be standing infront of the band and hearing all the nuances of the recording. Hearing a vocalist breathe or a chair squeak makes me feel as if I'm right there.
Russ and everyone;
I'd rather not use a speaker that needs a sub for simplicity, so now my interest is peaked about the RF series. You say that "they are not the king of soundstaging or top end extension and air." So what is a guy to do? lol! Actually I think the Heresy's are the perfect size for my room and the Cornwalls take up too much real estate. Too tell the truth; I was listening last night and I do enjoy a speaker that can disappear. I don't mean to be difficult, but this is a fact finding mission for me. I like to do my research first before stumbling into something half cocked.
Thanks and keep the info coming!
Eric
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The daline's will go lower but you trade efficiency to get that and you do not have an amp to drive them if you had them. You said you could get a set of Cornwalls for $600.00. Buy them and try them on for size. You can sell them and get your money back. Remember the Cornwal can be massaged with titainium diaphragms and new crossover parts for significant improvements in performance when you can afford to do so if you like them. I think that you will like them. Your experience with the Cornwall's will be useful and they are very efficient so you amp will be able to drive you out of the room if you want it to. Get them before they are gone and give them a test drive. You have nothing to lose. Best regards Moray James.
Very true on efficiency but I once heard a pair of 1.5 watt monoblocs run them beautifully. It was unbelieveable. I just found another pair of Cornwalls locally for $450.00. I'm awaiting pics. They supposedly are out of the 80's so will they be the Cornwall 1's? Is that a good thing? How does the sound differ between Heresylll and the Cornwall besides bass?
Thanks!
Eric
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Noone has really adressed my concern over sitting so close to the speakers even if they are 1' away from the front wall. The review I listed above mentioned a need to sit about 4meters from horns for the sound to blend correctly from the multiple drivers???
It ain't true.
+1.
I sit exactly 9 feet from my Heresies and they are about 9 feet apart; center to center.
I get such a wide soundstage; and imaging is amazing.
If you are near Chicago; you are welcome to come by for a listen!
Thanks for the offer but I'm in AZ. I'm going to have to see if there are any local Klipsch fans to see if I can have a listen.
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Before you invest in a pair of Heresys, see if you can locate a pair of RF-15s. Although they are discontinued, some new ones are still around and are far less costly than a new pair of H3s. The RF-15s are very well suited for use in a room of that size (look at my system profile to see how I'm using them), and provide a very easy load for a low power tube amp. You do need to be careful not to excite too much low frequency energy in a room of that size as it can definitely cause smeared imaging, among other things.
I checked out your profile and it sounds like your system is setup close to mine. I have listened to several of Klipsch newer speakers and I didn't like them. I'm not sure which models but they were sold in the Magnolia stores inside of Best Buy. Also; I can purchase used Cornwalls for less locally. I would really need to listen to the RF-15's to give them their due. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Frustrated....
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Just to give everyone an idea; I have been listening in a 12'x10' room since '93. I've been an audiophile for nearly 30 years and have had the good fortune to own alot of good equipment. I recently got on the Klipsch bandwagon after purchasing a 3 watt/channel SET amp. I first purchased Cornwalls because they were cheap. Then I purchased a mint pair of Quartets. In my room I end up with one note bass and very poor midbass/kickdrums. The bass seems slow without slam. I even hooked up my B&K 150 watt/channel SS amp with the same results. Don't get me wrong; I'm wowed by the Klipsch speakers. They are better than any speaker I have heard or owned except the bass region. The room just loads with excessive bass and drives me crazy. I plan on adding some polyfill inside the cabinets and raising the speakers off the floor. I've never heard such detail and natural mids in all my life. I just can't seem to get accurate bass in my room. I've never had this problem before with any other speaker design. I'm at a loss here. Basically; the Cornwalls have the same bass characteristics as the Quartets. HELP!!!