DANGERDAN

So would you agree with me when i say that no matter how much watts a amp has, the quality of how the power is supplied is important to be able to withstand the impedance drops and that if a amp cannot supply that power that it has a effect on SQ with the low frequency. Good read i found which a lot of people over in the avs forums lack to beleive for some stupid reason. Receivers and amps are rated in "watts" because the FTC mandated that they should be rated by the number of watts per channel that can be produced "continuously" into an 8 ohm resistor into two channels. Now, that FTC rule was promulgated over 30 years ago and at that time, 20 wpc was really big time stuff. Audio equipment manufacturers have become far more adept at making an amp with high continuous power, so 100 wpc almost seems pedestrian these days. However, some time ago, a few manufacturers realized that music information was not a continuous tone, that is, it gets loud and it gets soft and an amplifier needs to be able to respond quickly to a sudden crescendo. They also realized that an 8 ohm resistor was not a realistic load for the amplifier, as a speaker's resistance varies by the frequency, so that a typical 8 ohm rated speaker can have certain frequencies where it was as low as 4 ohms and other frequencies where the reesistance would be as high as 24 ohms. The final piece of this puzzle is that watts are not a realistic measurement of power. Real power is a function of "current," measured in amps, which an amplifier can deliver to the speaker. A "high current amp" is an amplifier that has a significant amount of current that it can deliver, largely because the amplifier 1) has a very large power supply, and 2) has high quality output transitors capable of using that power to deliver the signal to the speakers. You can spot a high current amp because the manufacturer will almost invariably specify how much power in "amps" can be delivered by the amplifier. Another way they may signal a high current amp is when they specify a high "IHF Dynamic Headroom" in excess of 1 db. The dynamic headroom rating tells you how much additional power the amp can deliver for a 10 millisecond period over its rated power. So, for example, a 75 wpc amp that can deliver 1.0 db of headroom is capable of hitting 100 wpc for short bursts (in order to respond to the music signal). A 3 db headroom rating will mean that the amp is capable of doubling its rated power for short bursts. Manufacturers who build high current amps include NAD, Sunfire, and Harman/Kardon. Most of the mass market audio manufacturers do not build high current amps because they are more expensive to build and they prefer to simply produce amps that can pass the FTC rule. Of course, this usually means that they rarely are capable of producing anything close to their rated power when driving five or more channels. For example, an Onkyo 900, rated by the manufacturer at 125 wpc into 7 channels, was found by Sound & Vision to only produce 52 watts per channel when it was tested with all seven channels active. Yamaha, Denon, Kenwood, Onkyo and many others are all challenged to meet their specified power. Sony ES wouldn't even let Sound & Vision test one of their receiver's power claiming that "it wasn't designed to have all channels active at the same time." Since it was a HT receiver, I fail to see how that works.

What amp were you using with them ?

ah yea i thought so, its so slight its barly noticeable. Why is there impedance drops, if a amp could provide 200 watts @ ohm would the speakers still drop in impedance or has it got something else to do with providing the power rather than the ammount ?

Why is there impedance drops, if a amp could provide 200 watts 8@ ohm would the speakers still drop in impedance or has it got something else to do with providing the power rather than the ammount ?

I just noticed that one of the woofers has little indentation dots which you only really see when light is shining on it, will this effect anything at all ?. thanks.

Im looking into a new amp i believe these things will open up more with better power as they are not to what they should be imo, i will post some pics up soon .

Iv heard alot about impedance dips with these high end speakers and want to know if this affects sound quality at all if using a low end amp instead of a higher end up that can supply power to these dips.

Yea il get some pic's up this week, i just haven't got any satisfaction out of them but i assure myself from all the research that i have done that i have made a future investment. Looking for amp in the future i have a guy that can get me wholesale on some rotel amps and iv heard good things with them and klipsch. Judging from my marantz 80 watt amp (sr4320) it provides a totally different and better sound yet the sony has more in terms of watts, so im just trying to get my head around this factor. The marantz has ok sound but both amps don't provide anywhere near the low levels of sub frequency's i was wanting so im thinking when it starts to hit the lower frequency's and the impedience drops that there is not enough stable power being supplied. EDIT Here's a example This guy has a pair of 82's which are probably easier to drive but on this song he can get his drivers to go nuts moving the driver to create heavy bass, with me on that song with either amp myn hardly move on full volume and with bass output on +10.Just a thought. Oh one last and important thing, my marantz stereo amp has a a/b speaker setup would i be able to bridge (bi amp) my speakers so that i can provide twice the power to each speaker ??.

Iv seen videos of the RF 83/82 with 8 inch woofers where the drivers were moving to a great digree where you could see it moving back and forth, like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seUCEbaMlH8&feature=related Mine do not move at all really even on full so is this a indication of needing a better amp ?

Well i went and got them, just in time too as they were almost gone if i didnt show up today they would be. In perfect condition no marks scratches i would say its in better condition than the one in harvey norman, the drive up was interesting having to take a big horse truck to carry them in xD. I sat in the back of the truck making sure nothing happend and secretly having sex with them "looks away", got home hooked them up and.... They are Ok, better than they played in harvey norman and they dont clip or distort at all when cranking up the volumes which was good to know but i think i may need to get a much better amp to get these babys cracking the mids and lows better. My decision still stands as the best i will not be those who cry because it dont sound awsome with their crappy amp, il be ohnest the amp used is one of those cheapo's that comes with sony's 7.2 htddw7500 system so i expected it. So the verdict my amp is powerfull enough in terms of watts but the amp isnt powerfull enough to hit the mids or lows and it took me about 20 mins to get used to the high frequency output but after a couple hours i do not feel like whats called "ear bleeding". Thanks guys you have been awomse, Thanks bill, thanks Klipsch

Cool thanks Bill, using paypal conversion i will be paying for practically unused pair of RF 83's with high performance cables included for $1900 (pair), $2650 at wholesale price which i can get from harvey norman but usually they are $4900 retail price (US). Whats the usual pricing in US ?, nz products are already usually high because of gst transporting and whatever other cost's that makes our imports more expensive than US. PS. i may have to purchase and pickup tomorrow due to another person interested in the same speakers i am looking at.

I understand the warranty void terms but should warranty be something i should worry about ? is it worth getting.

Thanks you have been terrific, i will let you guys know how things go on thursday , oh btw this is temporary but i will be using a sony amp 185 watts x 7 ch @ 6ohm 1% THD 28 hz to 20khz frequency range. Im fairly certain this will run it enough until i can get a decent psu, oh also is warranty a issue ? if i buy new i get the 5 years but i only got 3 years with 2nd hand pair (yes i have read the terms and conditions and understand the resell terms).

Thanks bill, one last question do these speakers need to be loud to get the full quality from them.. i like to listen at low volume with good quality partly because at night it may wake people up but i like to listen at low levels anyway.

They may have well been but cant be sure, from what i can tell they may have been in the store for quite a long time years at my guess, but the 2nd hand pair im looking at have never been used so that might be the better choice . Please if theres any more info people can give me i would much appreciate it, so far you help has been awsome and thank you.

Yea thats what i thought because yamaha isnt exactly a good match with klipsch and that model only puts out 100 watts per channel and i am pretty sure i heard it start to clip when he was trying to turn it up too loud.

accident double post!

As this is a discontinued product there is very limited availability, in any direction 5 hours out theres only one available in harvey norman which i can get at non profit price floor sale and the other is a unsued 2nd hand set which i can get a thousand dollars cheaper which is a steal. No chance for a demo i will have to research from what i know and take a risk xD.

Hey well i got to go and listen to the rf 83's the other day but i was disapointed by its performance when i did, there was no base there was no clearity and when they switched between the 83 and the f20's they sounded exactly the same. So i came to a conclusion that they were not powered properly because a couple weeks before this i was listening to the RF 62's and i really liked the sound that came from them so my question is were they underpowered ? and if i liked the rf 62's should i really like the 83's ? I have a position to buy them this thursday really cheap and so im making the last push for information . Thanks. ps the 83's were powered by rx797 yamaha.

Thanks willland, so what is the wood difference between the two and what kind of effect does the wood have on sound ?

As most of us know there has been a new line of reference speakers with improved technology over the previous sets, what im wanting to know and hopefully someone from the klipsch production team could help me and others understand what was changed and how the changes have improved over the previous generation. What effect has these changes made to the sound, like the crossover frequency from the improved tweeter and the new materials for the woofers, from what i have heard from very little people who have these they have said it possibly is a little warmer. Also if we were to compare these new speakers what would be the new outcome pinning as the RF 63 and 83 are no longer available what would the 83 and 63 compare like to the new 82 II and 7 II. I am in the process of purchasing the 82 II but i have available to me the old 83's so im really confused.