2sick2pray
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Posts posted by 2sick2pray
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For all you guys interested in modding your Heresies talk to Moray; His brother and Moray put on a demonstration for me that floored me, truly staggering, Way to go Moray, love that golf ball mod:)
:). Will see you soon.2S2P -
Hey Guys: Right in the middle of sound tests for the lounge and not knowing the Lascala bin for a reference, the SP-1's are singing with the Behr 2496 at the helm. Crossing down to the sub with LR 12 @ 80 hz closing out with LR 24 @ 31 hz. Moving up to 499 hz with the LR 48, for the FH-1 pulling down 141hz -1.4 db and finally closing out at 19.6 hz with BW 48 while pulling up 15.1 khz @ +2.1 db for the CP-1. This was a possible thru the generosity of Moray James to sell the cabs to me and let me grow as a audiophile. Thanks again Moray your the best. By the way Ottmar Liebert never sounded so good to me in my entire life.2S2P
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Claude: I got my Behr 2496 a few weeks ago and I'm just learning to have a blast with it. I'm crossing at 4th order at 499hz for the CP-1, and at 80hz 4th order to the sub. any recommends there, as I'm strugglling with both time and the renovations going on there. Limited time to play right now and I need to hammer down the sound soon, plus grab a Jan Didden master volume control for the output gains.Thanks 2S2P
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As a final note to this thread for me, I like to send out a heartfelt thank you to all memberof this forum for their contributions. I'll be moving on to the PA segment for the time being as I've landed an incredible oppurtunity to setup a 3000 sq.ft bar/lounge with both a passive and an active(mine) setup, and the icing on the cake, will be the 300 seat theater, complete with a 5' high, 80' long stage and the ceiling height, as far as my eye can see:) Floor noise in there reminds me of a morgue, you can hear the slightest sound from long distance in there. We will need to build all types of gear as the owner has just taking possesion of the complex, and I'll have my hands full just with the learning curve. I'll be all ears and open to all ideas to make this dream a realty. Thank you all once again and hope to hear from you in the future.2Sick 2Pray.Claude: I promise to learn how to use the HR program. Your so right , until you can actually measure it, talk is talk and bull scat walks. I am still very interested in your straight axis design as I'm not so restricted by the footprint as I was before. I thank you in advance 2S2P
If you only need to get to 100 Hz. then just build Volvotreter's conical bass horn for the EVM-15L (or B )woofer, which you can find on Craiglist all the time since musicians routinely fry them. You can get them reconed and they will be like new for about $100 each. Bruce Edgar, doing D.B. Keele math highly recommends these woofers as the best for bass horns above 60 Hz. because they will go up past 600 easily on the right bass horn design.
All the R&D has been done already and the plans even have a 1:1 template and panel layout if you can get to a printer/plotter with large roll feed......try a blueprint shop. Plus it's all metric, which, I'm sure a fellow Canuck can easily understand.
My version is just about 1/4 meter longer, with a rectangular throat of the same area and a rectangular, larger mouth, so it goes a little lower. But his has the perfect back air chamber for that woofer (important). Don't substitute woofers either. don't screw around with other woofers, you will be dissapointed. You can cross Erik's version at about 80 Hz...........I was going for 60 on mine because of the TH design I have. You gotta match it up to your Tapped Horn Sub.
PS: Claude I will PM you with regards to mods on the FH-1 as I just bought Morays SP-1's, and when I can afford it, I'll give your straight axis bin a go with delight.
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Looking for the response curve to help match a sub in my brothers setup. Thanx in Advance 2S2P
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Just need the response curve for KG4's as I'm trying to match a sub to my Brother's setup. Thanks in advance 2S2P
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Spearkerfritz; will this design be able to stand alone or rely on corner loading and will it compare to the FH-1 that Claude and Moray speak of ??.2S2Pyes.....the core of a jubilee
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Claude: I promise to learn how to use the HR program. Your so right , until you can actually measure it, talk is talk and bull scat walks. I am still very interested in your straight axis design as I'm not so restricted by the footprint as I was before. I thank you in advance 2S2P
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I'm going with 2 Tangband 38Hz tapped horns as it will be both, easy and cheap, for R/L channels. They will get up to 100hz so that leaves me more options for bass bin choices as I'm going with the k401/k55m mids crossed between 400-500hz's for now. I'll find K402's one day and that will change my setup drastically. Quick note, my personal life has changed for the best as I'm now in the process of deciding on 2 lounge/bar venues to DJ for, and I'm looking for a shop, complete with modest living quarters, to take this whole DIYing to a whole new level.This is a dream coming true and all with the help of everyone here.Thank you all for the support. Regards 2S2PPS. I think I will stick to Volvotretter's Sub.
Which one?
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Claude: Your right, I'll keep to the subject at hand. I am very interested in your straight axis design, and will be grateful for the info. Not an exercise for fun. I am trying to get a wonderful nearfield experience,and an open venue capability all in one. Like I said earlier, I want the bins in various venues with an eye of exposing people to the DIY world. All this is very important to me and I do appreciate all the help you members have added to the thread. Regards 2S2P
PS. I think I will stick to Volvotretter's Sub.
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Moray / Speakerfritz / Claude: I stumbled onto a Nelson PassBut don't the handles provide for more grip for the bottom end? Sorry I could not help myself. Best regards Moray James.
Open Slot Baffle design that might interest you guys. I'm trying to link the the article, no luck. Type in Open Slot Baffle Nelson Pass (google).2S2P
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Yes Speakerfritz the first is what I was proposing from the get go, and the last pic looks to me like the 555 bin. Like I said earlier in the thread that I was going for the look , not for the technical side of the design so much, only hoping to be as good as the LS or the 555 bin. I now realize the error of my ways.I have now learned so much just in the last week or so from all of the input in the thread and will need to draw on that . I will now have to the build more precise designs because soon I will have a large lounge/bar venue to DJ for. Dimensions approx. 120' x80' plus a large outdoor patio with seperate speaker system. This will be an adventure with lots of designs to experiment on. Got to have Tapped horn subs for sure. 2S2Pdo you mean this...
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I am proposing to come out of the rear corners @ 90^ up to the point where the roof panels start to flare inwards. I 'd like to flare the outside panels at the same flare angle, to the original 24" depth of the original LS ,and 555 design. If I understand you correctly, the downside would be very fast exit flare and compromising the mid frequencies? 2S2P5 sided dog house....needed where the sides of the dog house will hit the woofers if a triangle is made. Pro's - smaller width cab can be used than a 3 sided dog house. Con's - exit flare very fast. mid frequency cost penalty after the first turn.
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I will retrack the Bi-radial comment ,as my clumsy fat fingers and brian did not connect. To many turns to get to Albuquerque:)Thanks Moray: I do not have the equipmemt yet available to me, however to make a k
K402 does not seem to far off the mark to me. I need a CAD program and I"ll march that down to a cabinent maker in a heart beat. You just have to layer the progressions, in thin layers of birch(1/4" ply), to make up the bi- radial design of the horn. Am I off the mark?2S2P
. 2S2P
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Thanks Moray: I do not have the equipmemt yet available to me, however to make a k
K402 does not seem to far off the mark to me. I need a CAD program and I"ll march that down to a cabinent maker in a heart beat. You just have to layer the progressions, in thin layers of birch(1/4" ply), to make up the bi- radial design of the horn. Am I off the mark?2S2P
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Back from work, and this thread has begun to take off into an intriguing discussion between so many brilliant minds, collectively working out ideas and I can't believe I am witnessing all of this before my very eyes. I thank you all. Claude I am so interested in your design and will do the tapped horn sub design as I'm in the process now, of landing a gig, next door to my apartment, playing the one's and two's as they say in England. Smoooth Jazz and Blues and what ever I can toss into there. I have time to build the the perfect Lounge setup. New paragragh for those that tweet:)I would imagine that the Ciare engineers were much concerned with simplicity and cost of build. I would also imagine that with some modification to the design that the response could be smoothed out to match the larger version.
I think the larger version is the way to go....I like the idea of a 70 Hz. cutoff....much less EQ and lower distortion....well worth the slightly larger footprint. If you build a tapped horn sub like mine (only $300 with Canadian lumber and a Lab12 driver), it will be hard pressed to go above 70 Hz. without some funky stuff.
BTW, if there is some interest, I can post my straight axis horn design and the Hornresp curve for it.
I will PM you and you to Moray, so as not to prolong the the thread with my ideas. One last question for all the members out there, you specifically Dave Hotsover, has anyone tried to design and build a K402 from wood(finger jointed , instead of cutout's from panels). Just an idea.2S2P
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You read my mind Claude,very interested to see, as I'm keeping an open mind. That's the Volvotreter's 1 meter bass horn. I remember a reference to it some time back when I was reading another forums info.I would imagine that the Ciare engineers were much concerned with simplicity and cost of build. I would also imagine that with some modification to the design that the response could be smoothed out to match the larger version.
I think the larger version is the way to go....I like the idea of a 70 Hz. cutoff....much less EQ and lower distortion....well worth the slightly larger footprint. If you build a tapped horn sub like mine (only $300 with Canadian lumber and a Lab12 driver), it will be hard pressed to go above 70 Hz. without some funky stuff.
BTW, if there is some interest, I can post my straight axis horn design and the Hornresp curve for it.
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Duly Noted and appreciate the advice. If I am to gain more knowledge and wisdom from the intended forum, Keep it short and sweet:)
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I cannot stop saying Thank You So Much (Moray/Claude/KG4guy/Speakerfritz/ and all the members of the forum). I've been reading all that you have posted since last nite. I promise to learn how to use Hornsrep and go from there, and Moray I'll figure out how to scale out a drawing and hopefully attach it to a post for your's and Claude's perspective. Moray, I appreciate your offer to try out the horns and drivers, it was all I could do not to drive to Calgary, last nite and show up on your doorstep, unannounced:)more (spin on LS design)
The bin you show has a 68.9 Hz. cutoff, abit better than a LaScala, but I'm not sure who makes the driver, since it seems to be Italian.
The Peavey FH-1 is good to about 90 Hz, the LaScala is goot to about 100 Hz. before rolloff, so this one is pretty darn good.
Plus if one were to upgrade to K402 horns, the width would match perfectly, so this is a good find, Moray.
This would be my second choice after a straight axis horn.........better than LS or FH-1.
:). The last bin design(Italian driver)you gentlemen referring to is which one? 2S2P
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Thank You Moray: Let's start from the onset. I finally was in a position to start building a set of LS's this summer , which was a huge step for me. As my research moved along with regards to the intended build, I finally managed to get my hands on a pair k401's as they are not readily available for reasonable prices plus shipping from the States. Once done then able to secure K55M's at a really great deal. My limited budget only allowed for that, however a pair k402' would have been great coupled with a pr of TAD's. That said, I did more serious research and came across KG4guy's 555 build (July 29 2010) Klipsch forum, which really intrigued me. With further research I realized I can build those bins easily. I'm a carpenter by trade and work at a home building supply store ( Totem ). This led me to KG4guy's experience with his build and to go active Xover, which I might add I've embraced whole heartedly. Never looking back now. Now I've aquired what I need to do to move to the final stages of this complete system rebuild. I have 3 amps ready to roll, the transport , the DSP, the horns, tweets. My final decision is to pick a bin/ woofer to land on. Expectations are to be as close to 400hz with the K401/K55m as I can get. My DSP is a Behringer DCX2496 and capable of extreme slopes ( 6-48db/octave). Let me qualify all this as I'm still in the early stages of understanding the DIY world ,however I research everday and I'm gaining knowledge daily. The build I proposed for the bin is somewhere between the original LS and the 555 bin that KG4guy built. Not to far off the mark to be a disaster, and just maybe great enough to be a keeper. That said I can easily go back to the drawing board and build again, and I love experimenting, always have and always will. I hope you understand what I'm trying to do with the bin Moray, it's not much different than the original PWK design or the John Allen 555 design. I appreciate all you have pointed out to me and will continue to devour any and alll knowledge you pass on to me. 2S2P
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Now I think I understand what you're driving at Moray. I was hoping to do the same with my build and make the same 90^ turn as the original LS and come out to where the doghouse starts to flare and keep the same flare angle on the outside panels, which then makes a bend in the outside walls, instead of straight like the 555 bin(straight out from the rear corner back panel). Do you understand now what it is I'm trying to do? and if so will that then present a problem with the expansion of the sound? I'm all ears and one good eye:). 2S2PThe cabinet is a Martin 115. I have never used one but I understand it is a good bass bin. I prefer the clean simplicity of the Klipsch and peavey initial throat sections where as little as possible is done to the disturbe thepath of the sound, straight and clean then one 90 degree bend and out you go. Best regards Moray James.
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Do you know who designed that? and by the measurements a large footprint (3'x4') looking so coolattached is a variation on the theme but not one which interests me but I thought it might provide some ffood for thought. Best regards Moray James.
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I always understood that the roof panels for the dog house were the ones that meet at the center of the horn. The top and bottoms were to stay as is, parallel and the sides to flare as per the 555 bins. As you pointed out Moray I'm convinced to stay with the 555 design and keep my imagination in check. Those 1504-4 are 4 ohms I'm guessing and like KG4guy used the Eminence 15 Kappas 4ohms on his 555 build. I could be talked into those. 2S2PSorry but without a drawing I am just a bit confused are you saying that you are intending the horn to flair both horizontally and verticaly? In the La Scala the top and bottom panels are parallel to each other is this what you intend to do also? The picture of the 555 at the makers site looks like a La Scala with flaired side walls only. It sounds to me like you intend to keep the top and bottom panels parallel and that you want the side panels to flair out after the parallel wall section (after the first bend) as in the La Scala is this correct? I would think that the 555 arrangment with the sides flairing staight out from the corner would be more effective. The parallel wall section of the La Scala (as far as I can tell) is a usless section of the horn as it has zero expansion rate and is only there due to the initial size constraints of the design. As far as I know it offers no benefit. If I am wrong in this I would be happy to be corrected and learn how it is of benefit.
The La Scala is 24 inches across the mouth the Belle is 28.5 inches across the mouth the SP1 is about 30 inches across the mouth and the FH-1 is 31.5 across the mouth with the 555 measuring 36.6 inches across the mouth. Not a lot of difference in mouth size from one end to the other. The Belle is truncated and has close to the same mouth area as the La Scala with the SP1 FH-1 and the 555 being larger. Bass response is going to be similar and a sub will be required no matter which cabinet design is chosen and the useful lower range is going to be similar also being around 70 - 80 Hz with a fairly good slope, all of these horn will be starting to loose output by 100 Hz. That's why I am thinking that the SP1 is a pretty fair compromise about the same width as a Belle though as deep as the La Scala and with out the dead zone in the La Scala and not quite so large as the 555. I would appreciate any information comments and or corrections from anyone if I am in error about any of this. Thanks and best regards Moray James.
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I'm starting to get the picture now and I'm keeping an open mind to the driver selection. I have another month to decide, as I'm building all of my interconnects and speaker cables, the detached top hat and waiting for the plywood for the bins. That EV has my attention. Thanks for the heads up. 2S2PClaude: how does the JBL 2226 H model compared to the EV woofers that you are using right now? Best regards Moray James.
I'm not modeling the JBL any time soon. I just moved all my speakers to a new space, which is a large loft, which I'm enlarging. The EV speakers stomped the K33's and Crites 1526. According to Dr. Bruce Edgar, the EVM 15 L or B is the best 15" woofer for a horn, and it models extremely well. Again I went from 4 way to 3-way, and it was tough to fill the missing sound from the Peavey MB-1 super midbass/midrange horn. It too the EVM woofer with brand new cones and lots of digital EQ to make it work and it's wonderful. I have no need for a JBL. I would like to see the results of that guy's MEASURMENTS, not just "opinion" need to see data.
What kind of "distortion"
:). Will see you soon.2S2P
A spin on the LaScala bin design
in Technical/Restorations
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Moray ,Claude; Check out the Faital Pro 15PR 400. It appears to have great specs all around and the impedance curve looks excellent thru 70 hz up to 1khz. I found them by accident while looking for some 8" woofers for the Snails III.Let me know if they are what they appear to be as I'm trying to find EVM 15L's, but so far only 8ohm versions, and really need to get moving on all the horns I've got to build. We are converting the gun range that's in this multiplex, into a work shop( sound proofed) so I can build and test at the same time. Thanks 2S2P