2BRNot2B

"With ALL due respect, he has stated that there has been a Mid-Range problem with most of the speakers he has listened to, including but not limited to other brands than Klipsch" & "espicially if other brands of speakerrs and amps have produced the "Ear Bleed" of the listener.s of speakerrs and amps have produced the "Ear Bleed" of the listener". I knew it was a matter of time before someone would post something like this. I'll take the bait. That said: When did I make these remarks regarding other speaker brands? The Sound Dynamic 300ti's I listened to for 15+ years had poor mid-range reproduction, but I never said it was too hot. It was actually too weak. These were known issues specific to that speaker (it had a marginal mid-range speaker). Plus I listened to same speaker in several different rooms with similar results....end result poor mid-range reproduction. I'll agree totally with you regarding the subjectivity of listening but I am no "lightweight" when it comes to deciphering the range of musical sound. My ears are pretty well tuned. To establish some framework, I'm currently a semi-pro musician and played (many years ago) in a classical orchestra doing the usual war-horse material (it was a B-list orchestra...but that is another story). I can conclusivey say that the K-horns I currently own are HOT in the mid-range. I believe if 100 objective people lined up to listen to the same speakers with blinders over their eyes, most would conclude the same. Defining and absolutely proving such is a different story. We can go back and forth all day.........

"If you haven't got the bass sorted out, the mids will always be more pronounced. What are you used to listening to before the big K's? Have you looked into whether the drivers are in phase with each other?" _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Agreed, since bass is disproportionate to mids, the mids are naturally potentiated, though I still think the degree of mid sharpness is due to something else. Listened to Sound Dynamic 300ti's for 15+ years. Much different than a K-horn. Great tweeter, fair mid range, marginal bass. Great imaging and focus. Overall very sweet speakers but too small for room. Speaker sound in phase. I ran a phase testing CD without anything remarkable happening from what was expected. Though now you got me scared...I don't wanna dig inside those cabinets.

Interventions completed thus far: I have done my best to tighten/seal the bass cabinets to the concrete walls via layered plumbing insulation and pushing the speakers as tight as possible into the corners. Clearly the concrete walls are not perfect 45 degree angles but, after sealing and Herculean-pushing, I don't not think a tighter fit is possible. The plumbing insulation is located at the points the rear bass cabinets and rear midrange top sections touch the wall. I did not seal the side grills, it seemed fruitless to do so. To actually identify the sound problem, I ran a sound frequency test by listening to an old Stereophile test CD that measures such. This may not be the best method but it's all I have and seemed rational. Based on my listening, it is quite clear the 400 Hz to 800 Hz and 2 kHz to 2.5 kHz frequency ranges are too sharp. The worst (headache-zone) is the 500 Hz to 630 Hz range and 2kHz range. Like hot light sabers jumping into one's ears, it's aural poison. Also, within the mid-bass zone of 80 Hz to 40 Hz the frequency response is fair to poor. The low bass zones of 40 Hz to 31.5 Hz are poor. Upper bass 200 Hz to100 Hz is excellent. Bass starts going downhill below 100 Hz. Moving the cabinets tighter into the corner improved bass slightly but did more to improve image and focus. Everything is less blurry, one can pick out the instruments better. Certain recordings float before the ears. Overall I rank current sound a 7.5 on my personal 1-10 scale. Better than most but not as great as I expected. Ain't giving up.... Summary= MARGINAL BASS & HOT MID-RANGE. Who to point the finger at???

My ultimate plan was to update the K-horns with better components. I just wasn't planning on upgrading so soon. Since the mid-range can be pretty difficult to listen to, I'll probably have to complete this sooner than later. Can these K-horn upgrades be completed easily? Here's the low-down on my mechanical skills. Very basic. Replacing the speakers seems pretty basic but the wiring and soldering scares the bejeezus out of me. I tried to self-study electronics from old WWII manuals many years ago....then the chapter on Ohms Law came up and suddenly it looked like too much work and I bailed-out. Really, I'm a music lover first. Not totally helpless, just fearful of screwing it all up. What idiosyncrasies are involved in replacing the AK-3 crossovers in 1993 K-Horns? I understand there is a second set of crossover components in the woofer cabinet that have to be bypassed? Is this easy to complete? Would I need new woofer doors? Gotta drill new holes? Thanks for hanging in there with me....Rob

Thanks to all for the great advice. The most unpleasant sound appears to be coming from the mid-horn. Just too loud and shrill and not blended well, like the bright sun shining on your face. Certain recording are worse than others but there is a definate boost in the overall mid-range. The tweeters seem fine. It is a naturally bright room that I have warmed up with rugs, wall coverings, bulky items, etc. The sweet spot is still sharp. I have the tube amp on a 2" maple butcher block. SACD (Onkyo) player is on a metal rack. Turntable (VPI Classic) is on a 3" butcher block.Turntable/CD both have mid-range shrillness albeit the SACD player a bit more. The Decware amp is brand spanking new, still in break in mode, about 40 hours on it. There are all kinds of knobs on the amp, bias control, impedence controls, bass, treble controls... I have tried all the amp settings with no remarkable sound changes. I have played the amp on much smaller Sound Dynamic 300ti's for several hours, it sounded sweet. Some archived posts made it sound like one should start with the basics; check wiring, room, and bass cabinet fit. That somehow the bass cabinet fit has some effect on mid-range performance(???). I'll fiddle around with the various tweeks in a few days. I'm getting my butt kicked at work right now....not much free time.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm in the northern suburbs in the Detroit area. I listened briefly at the sellers home. They did sound a little bright but not as much as my current room. I purchased them because the price was a no-brainer and the condition is excellent. Even had the original boxes. Even though I'm not 100% happy, I'm not giving up on them. The K-horn's are in the poured concrete corners of a 22' long rectangular niche area within the basement. The basement (a true man-cave) is not finished but has superficial treatments...wall coverings, rugs, carpets, LP racks, and a thin vinyl covering between the concrete walls and speaker. Actually the entire rectangular niche is covered with a huge vinyl freeway advertising sign that I cut to fit the area (poor man's wall paper). The corner fit is fair and definately not tight. There is a slight recessed area at the point where the walls meet. I stuck some egg-crate sound proofing foam in the corners and pushed the speaker right into them. I can run my fingers between the speakers and wall at certain points. I'm listening about 10-12 feet away. Maybe I have to rethink the room and corner fit? Sounds like the most obvious choice is to improve the corner fit. I'll try to improve the corner seals.......

Hi, I'm new to the whole Klipschorn thing. Been a bang-for-the-buck audiophile for 20+ years. I just got a pair of excellent condition 1993 walnut K-horns with AK-3 crossovers. Speakers/horn are stock. The midrange is bleeding my ears and imaging isn't the best. Any suggestions to mellow it out and improve imaging? I understand there is an inherent Klipschorn sound....but this midrange is too radical. Would any of the usual upgrades help (Crites, ALK, Volti, etc)? Who? What? Room is large open basement with concrete corners and floor. Ceiling 8 feet high with wood rafters. I have placed multiple rugs and wall coverings on floors and walls to warm it up. The K-horns are driven with a 26 watt Decware tube amp. I listen at low-medium to medium levels. Thanks for your help, Rob