Brunt
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Posts posted by Brunt
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Yes, I can see it now---get our new cable 1080P package for $30.00 per month. Yuk.
JJK
You must be the fun guy at the party...It's okay to complain, for the time being it's still America.
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Fixing the HD on cable would mean no recoding to get smaller bandwidth. Why would they screw themselves with less channel capacity. They are trying to figure out how to recode better to get more channels, less quality. You have to go OTA (wireless) to get the best quality. The cable companies montra is "how do we make more money?.
JJK
I see your point. I really do. But the cable companies will eventually need to go 1080 and improve sound quality or they will lose all their business to dish. The only reason I'm with comcast right now is high Internet speed. If another company could provide equal speed Internet I would switch.
More and more tempting too! Sunday ticket is now a throw in if you switch to Directv and sign a 2 year contract.
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My 8350 simply outperforms my old Sony 55 inch tv in every way.Everyone that has viewed it said no more tv's for them except maybe the bedroom.The amount you want to spend determines the ultimate quality, Panasonic etc...very nice,The Epson though is rated top notch in it's class, and for bang for the buck it's hard to beat.
Usually hear good things about Epson...especially UB models.
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Forgot to mention. Panasonic is about to release their new 1080p 3D projetor, the AE7000....save your pennies.
A little off topic, but the "industry" is VERY close to the mass-release of glasses free 3D TV. I would expect reasonably affordable versions to be available by 2013 from the major manufacturers.
I hope not...lol...I was really hoping 3D doesn't catch on. I don't care for what it adds (at least the movies I've seen) and I don't like the idea of replacing BluRay's, etc.. Not to mention, can we please get better cable? We're getting 3D, but every other network uses substandard compression techniques and cable companies intentionally limit bandwith so they can add more customers. I get why, but I hate when new tech is jammed down our throat before existing tech is perfected or even usable in some cases. ESPN NFL football looks incredible, while the NBA on TNT looks like scat! Hell, they STILL haven't moved on screen graphics like scores and such over to the far, proper corner of the 16:9 format.
3D sort of reminds me of the direction Netflix is going...casting aside disc distribution in favor of streaming only. Well, the only problem with that is everyone with a surround sound setup and nice display is going to get screwed out of the resolution and audio quality they paid for the capability to enjoy. IMO Netflix should always have the BluRay disc/mail option for people with nice home theaters. Sorry for the rant, but this 3D push has really caught me off guard and struck me as bizarre.
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One of the forum members sent me a deposit to hold them for a couple weeks till he could pick them up. It's actually been 3 weeks and still no further response. You think maybe he just wanted to give me $100 for kicks? Lol I marked them sold when the check cleared. I'm sure he b in contact at some point.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Good to hear my first $100 cleared, I also sent the rest of the money and you forgot so I'll be by this week for pick up.
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Just never thought of low frequency effects as something in the 100hz range, that is what I think is throwing me off.
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Every projector I have seen at audio/visual stores has not been very good. The projectors I have seen at commercial entities which cost 30 grand are also not very good. I have not seen digital projectors at movie theaters. Just my opinion. Not very good means not enough brightness, low contrast, lots of fuzzy stuff.
JJK
Well, the 2 I've seen have been in light controlled rooms...as mine will be once I upgrade. I will say this, the immersion level goes through the roof. Once I saw one in home I instantly knew what I was missing. I will continue doing research on Avs but I was interested what you Klipschters were using in your setups.
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For those with projectors or with extensive viewing experience, I am wondering what models you have and have experience with for the sake of comparison. Why do you love it? What was better? What did you upgrade from? Anything relating to projectors, good or bad. I'm looking for any and all info.
I know this is mainly an audio forum, but there are a bunch of fantastic theater setups here so I wanted to hear about your opinions, preferences, etc.. I'm thinking about taking the plunge once my Sylvania dies and I figured this would be a good place to gather some info along with projectorreviews.com and avsforum.
The only experience I have is viewing an Epson 8500UB and another friend's Epson EX70...both LCD projectors so I have no experience with DLP's or any other tech.
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So, if LFE content goes from 10-120hz, and your speakers are also playing everythingfrom 60 or 80 and up, why is it called LFE? If I cross my mains over at 60hz, the center at 60 or 70hz and the surrounds at 70hz, I was under the impression the sub is playing everything below 70hz. You're saying there's a separate stream of info playing from 10-120hz? Nevermind the subs crossover, I always open that all the way up and let the AVR send what I want to the sub...which from what I'm reading is all frequencies from 10hz-120hz?
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Brunt... are you still getting those RS3's on Monday? If you get a chance contact that guy and see if he has any other items for sale. They don't have to be brand new in box like the rs3's but I'm always on the lookout for a good deal.
Claims he does, but hasn't supplied me with the items yet. If I grab the RS-3's, I can ask to see the stuff he might have.
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It seems to me that confusion arises because LFE channel and subwoofer channel are used without proper distinction.
Here is one website.
http://www.genelecusa.com/faq/multichannel/lfe-channel/
But even there, I believe they got it wrong. The orange box at the lower right should be called subwoofer and not LFE.
Here is my understanding.
5.1 and similar numbers always refers to what is on the speaker side of the decoder.
Back in the day Hi-Fi VHS had two good FM modulated tracks derived from an extra head on the spinning magnetic pick-up. (The other head did the video.) But if we look at the subject diagram, we'd say there is only two recorded channels.
Dolby decoders would create extra outputs to the right side of the diagram.
Just L
Just R
Center was L+R (a mono signal)
The surround was L-R (a mono signal) and this would be sent to usually the left surround speaker and the right surround speaker (both the same program) but with some delay.
If you had a sub, it would be fed L+R but only freqs below 70 hz and we'd hope that the other speaker never got anything above 70 hz. This crossover point may have been adjustable. This was the .1 output.
You could play an LP and get some good results. Naturally the center mix was the same as what PWK was doing years before. Ambient or surround sounds picked up by recording microphones tended to be random and thus did not add up in the center. It is complicated but L+R gets a power gain while L-R fed with random does not. (I think. Smile.)
= = = =
Note that there was never 5.1 channels on the VHS tape even though it was used to feed decoders with 5.1 speaker. There were only two input channels. You may say this is an historic point of little interest. But I bring it up to show that we have to be careful to distinguish what goes into a decoder and what comes out -- and what to call them.
= = = = =
The Wikipedia article appears to describe a movie theater system when discrete digital tracks became available and there was a discrete bass channel. That went, pretty much, unprocessed to a sub behind the screen. But that is not our present home situation.
= = = =
Now we have digital storage and transmission systems which are shown on the left side of the diagram. It appear on the table that the LFE channel of storage and decoding puts bass info below 120 Hz into the LFE channel. Important: that is what is going into the decoder.
It is incorrect to jump to the conclusion that the discreted LFE channel on the recording/transmission is what the decoder sends to the sub unless there is some special setting for it (and I don't know if your decoder can do this if asked).
As we've seen, the decoder menu asks all sorts of questions about whether there are mains big or small, a center, and a sub. Importantly, where the crossover point to the sub should be set.
I believe that it does take into consideration that the LFE input up to 120 Hz has to be preserved independent of the chosen crossover point output to the sub. Therefore if the LFE input is up to 120 Hz, and you set the sub crossover to 70 Hz, the LFE channel input signal between 120 Hz and 70 Hz goes to the mains.
= = =
To belabor. The LFE concept is on the storage/transmission end and input to the decoder. The subwoofer concept is on the output / speaker end of the decoder.
WMcD
Not positive if I understood what you meant but to be clear the .1(lfe channel) is 100% separate from the other channels. It doesn’t take any information from other channels unless you send it there by setting speakers to small and setting a crossover point for those speakers(Bass management). Then and only then does your sub handle bass content from other channels other than the lfe channel. Before we had Dolby digital 5.1 your right the processors took the stereo 2 channel information and then split it into separate channels based on all the info we gave it and it’s processing. But from the very first 5.1(someone might jump in with an earlier one) system tell now we have completely separate channels that have all their own info including a separate lfe channel stored right on the disc. Bass management is where we reroute the low frequencies from those channels (l/r/c/sr/sl) to the sub (on top of the lfe info). Audioholics had a great article on this they did blind fold testing to find out what frequencies really where non directional (it’s said to be 120 Hz). They found that 60 Hz was actually the magic frequency and anything above 60 Hz is where people could stat pointing out where they had placed the sub in the room. So he said when possible run the lfe(sub) at 120hz and the other speakers no higher than 60 Hz. So you don’t get any extra content to the sub from other channels above 60 Hz. This is just one article of one person’s opinion so it’s not facts. Sometimes depending on what speakers we have 60 Hz isn’t an option.
Wait, run the sub at 120hz? I don't understand...shouldn't the sub be set to run everything UNDER 60hz?
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Brunt.... What would u do if you had a million dollars?
2 Chicks at the same time, man!
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It may not but that hand rolled cigarette in your mouth certainly does! LolThe rc3 can take 150 watts. For under $100 you could add an audiosource ma100 amplifier and bridged it will give you 160 watts for your rc3. I think adding power to it will bring it to life. Also you can bump up your DB rating to the center channel so it will stand out more over the R/L.
+1 to this...I am running the above amp through the RC-3 alonside a pair of RF-62's and in my 21x12x8 room there are ZERO output issues...although the OP's room is drastically different so I'm not sure my statement brings anything to the table...
Effin' A man...Effin' A!
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The rc3 can take 150 watts. For under $100 you could add an audiosource ma100 amplifier and bridged it will give you 160 watts for your rc3. I think adding power to it will bring it to life. Also you can bump up your DB rating to the center channel so it will stand out more over the R/L.
+1 to this...I am running the above amp through the RC-3 alonside a pair of RF-62's and in my 21x12x8 room there are ZERO output issues...although the OP's room is drastically different so I'm not sure my statement brings anything to the table...
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Just generational differences...I had the RC-10s and they were good little speakers, though a little small for my listening room.
How big is your listening room?
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This thread has officially jumped the shark...among other things.
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just read the end of your post. Since you are looking at the 809. Go to Onkyo's website and you can compare all their AVR's side by side. IMO if your not running 3D then you have no need for HDMI 1.4. Go with the HTRC180 as it has network connectibility for pandora and updates, it has 7.2 channel preouts, and is $350 shipped from A4L with a 1 year warranty. It also has audyssy DSX (if you use that). Not sure what the 809 has to offer that makes it worth the extra cash. I know there is another forum member here that as an HTRC180 as well and loves it.
I have this AVR...and he is correct, I love it. Seems like an unbeatable value for the price.
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Thanks for bagging on my stuff.
No problem Jason..
Lol.... Hey brunt.... I think he means me when he says Jason. BTW dary, why only the XPA-3?
When not on sale, maybe the $200 difference between that and the XPA-5?
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I think u should do that Brunt. This place , like planet fitness, is a relatively judgement free zone with the exception of a couple newer members. The old timer heritage guys seem to be willing to help out quite a bit. If you do go against majority views make sure you do it in a pm... Otherwise you'll get flamed like those who chose to fight McCarthyism in the late 40's early 50's.
Your description of the Heritage guys reminds me of the older, more tolerant members of my Sylvania forum.
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Thanks for bagging on my stuff.
No problem Jason..
I am not sure why you would think Brunt is Jason,,,,,,,, However I have thought Brunt seems a lot like jacksonbart
LOL...Actually darylomer12, my name IS Jason as well...different last names as you can tell by our screen names.
If you gentlemen are serious about thinking I am somebody else, I can post pictures of my setup as soon as my room is put back together as I recently sunk a cabinet into a wall and haven't finished cleaning up yet. I can also take pictures which clearly show my face while holding up a copy of that day's paper and a copy of my birth certificate all while the evening news is playing in the background.
It's odd, I was told this forum was a judgement free zone, but I've already had someone take shots at my portrait and make fun of my AV setup...tough crowd I guess. We all don't have money for fancy projectors and dedicated "man-towns".
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Im still trying to figure out if the Sylvania 19" CRT TV (Cinevision model with upgraded board) is real or some kind of inside joke? Im the only one?
Definately a joke.. You'd have to sit pretty darn close to actually see a picture on a 19" screen.
Thanks for bagging on my stuff.
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Brunt/JasonJC,
Okay, so I've got a question: Are you the same person? I say yes!
Well for starters, he has much nicer gear than me...so, no.
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Ok if that's true the how would an rf7 sound better than the rc64 as a center channel ?
But please someone tell me why klipsch uses a tapered array crossover in the 64 if an rf 7 single crossover would sound better?
Klipsch went to a tapered array design(2.5 way) to eliminate the comb filtering that can occur with horizontally imposed speakers. Here is a few threads that explain things a bit.
http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/78827/782136.aspx#782136
http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/131169/1326871.aspx#1326871
Why did klipsch go away from the two 8 inch drivers for a center channel (rc7) for a wider 4 driver setup with 2 cross points?
I believe a 6.5 inch driver will produce better midrange frequencies than an 8 inch especially with dialog which is a center channels main function.
Bill
I love a good debate as much as anyone. But I think we are just
beating a dead horse at this point. Music like movies both have voices its no different.
And Jason I really feel youre arguing just argue at this point. No offence but
you almost sound like people that argue that hitler was a some kind of genius
and not a mad man when you take some of these sides.
A Hitler reference! Ladies and Gentlemen...The Klipsch Forums!!!! Lol...
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Yeah...but what about a smaller square shape like the thx center? I wasn't referring to another tower...you're telling me that price aside, most here couldn't fit thx frontstage in their room without transparent screen? I disagree...that's all.Cornfed... What does the size of the screen matter? I'm not following, sorry.
A large (tall) center speaker would need to either place the screen very high up and or make it smaller, unless you were using an accoustically tranparent screen and the speaker(s) is located behind the screen which is sometimes done, more often in large theaters. For convenience it is easier to use a center speaker that is horizontally designed which is easier to place either under or above the screen.
I have a dedicated HT room. With that in mind, I placed the screen at the appropriate height for ideal viewing and then found the largest screen (width-wise) I could fit between two RF-82s. It's a 110" diagnol. At 120" my towers block the screen, so 110 was my height. I went with a 16:9 screen for price/use reasons and I am left with 20" of floor to screen clearance. If I wanted my center on the floor, I could use the THX center. I could not use the THX R/L speakers w/o decreasing my screen size. That's me.
Several companies do make vertical centers, but they don't have the same WAF. As an example of the importance of this, JJC has a very expensive amp and went from RF-62s to RF-7 IIs for purely for the coolness factor. How cool is it to have an awkward square center sitting on your floor? My buddy uses a KG center in his system and it sounds fantastic! I wouldn't hesitate to use a Heresy with a pair of Cornwall's or LaScalla's, but the horizontal center has much better aesthetics.
Again, the centers are heavily engineered to compensate for the horizontal configuration, and through that engineering, they sound great and I wouldn't hesitate to use a 64 with 7s. I'm okay with the opinion that the 64 sounds better than a 7 in the center, but for the BEST POSSIBLE timbre matching, three identical are king. For those that don't care of timbre matching (JJC) that's great. The 64 is one d*** fine center that any audiophile would be pleased to have in his/her system! I think we can all agree on that (except that there have been some recent threads where people have had issues with their 64, so even that is debatable).
I get your point.
subwoofer crossover hz / L.F.E. signals
in Home Theater
Posted
This is what I thought...when using LFE output/input I thought you would bypass the subs crossover anyway?! The reason for turning subs crossover to 120hz or higher was if it didn't have an LFE input, it would be open to accepting all signals (thus cranking subs crossover all the way up) that were sent to it from the AVR's crossover. Elemental Designs recommends doing just this, cranking crossover all the way up because they lack a dedicated LFE input. That way (as explained to me by an employee there) the sub will play everything the AVR's LFE output is giving it.