T.H.E. Droid

I too, use an SAE 2800 to tweek my system. The Cornwalls seem to resonate around 3500hz in my room and I dial that down a bit. Of course the golden rule with EQ is never boost, only cut, and the Cornwalls don't seem to need anything else. My JBL summits have level controls for tweeter and midrange which I have adjusted to my liking so I tend to run the rest of the system flat with the eq cut out. The Khorns.... well, that's another story that's on a different thread. Whether they were ever intended to be used with EQ isn't really relevent. I'm sure Ford didn't intend the '49 Mercury to be used with Lakes pipes and fuzzy dice, yet these are owner preferences, and as Klipsh owners, we can do whatever suits our ears. I'm it never bothered Paul as long as your check for the speakers didn't bounce.

I went back over to thoroughly check out the speakers and this is what I found: Serial numbers indicate 1988 manufacture I removed the L-pads and double checked all the connections. All the drivers are properly phased. I couldn't find any open seals or opening that don't belong in the bass cabs. I removed the side grilles so I could make sure they were seating properly and reseated the speakers into the corner. I have good solid contact with the backboards on both sides. I can report that I now have better low bass response. Not a huge change, but hearable. However, that woody resonance (seems around 1000 hz) is still there. On my Carmina Burana recording, this gets to the point where it just overpowers and smothers the other music. I'm not relistening with my Summits and the same passages have clear, low, clean bass and very good separation of the instruments in the areas where the Khorns crash and burn. Oddly, my copy of Carmina Burana seems to suffer from some super low frequency rumble that is actually more pronounced with the Summits than the Khorns. The Summits have a ported 15" similar to the Cornwalls, so I suspect this rumble might be right around the port's resonant frequence. On the Khorns, it's much less pronounced. I guess the next step is to pull the bass drivers and check them thorougly and make sure there isn't a rat nest inside the speaker somewhere. (The cloth slot covers are intact so they're probably clean.)

I did read up on some threads about sealing the tailboards with foam or gaskets, and that raises a simple question? If not making an airtight seal into the back of the corner is causing the speaker to sound really bad, how is it that PWK would allow the speakers to be shipped to customers without such a seal already in place?

I do have a tube amp I can try. I've never bought the argument that K-horns "like" tubes and low powered equipment. They are so efficient that you should be able to get reasonable levels without a lot of input power, but I suspect the preference for "warm sounding" amplifiers has more to do with equpment with less high frequency response and the Klipsch horn reputation for harsness in the mids and highs. There is no rattling or popping from the woofers, although at this point I'm going to take them out for a thorough inspection because one tweeter was blown when I bought the speakers. I know the stock tweeters are prone to blowing out, but a blown tweeter implies that the speakers may have be overdriven by an underpowered amp so there could be some damage. I have had a chance to isolate each driver with an input speaker and although the bass doesn't sound right, it is capable of chest-thumping output without popping or crackling. I have had woofers with tears and they generally produced a popping sound. Ditto for the mids and tweeters, which all produce strong levels without any snap, crackle or pop. Bob Crites has pictures of his A/4500 crossover on is site, my crossovers look exactly like his photos. I've checked all the wiring to make sure all drivers are properly polarized.

The crossovers are stock B&K A/4500's which have only one input so I'm not sure what you mean. All of the common rail connections are made to the terminal strips and there are no other jumpers on the board. The stock Klipsch fuse panel and crossover components have been removed and the woofers are direct wired to the crossover.

Not that it is that important to the problem, but who knows. I think AK-3 networks weren't around in 1980. Sorry, I got out the box I put them in and they are AK-2 crossovers. And I will add that my uncle's speakerlab K's have side sheets on both sides of one speaker, and one side of the other, so strictly speaking they are in at least partial corners.

It's a great response and here is some more information: I mentioned 8 and 16 ohms, without adding "L pads". They are connected properly and the problems are as described regardless of whether the pads are in the circuit or not. I'm a retired electrical engineer so I'm familiar with proper wiring and phasing of components. Drivers are all hooked up pos/neg as per their contact markings or the original connection. (no plus/minus markings on the woofers but one side goes to what is obviously the "common" side of the fuse/interconnect panel and crossover, so that was connected to minus on the crossovers. The bass doesn't seem out of phase (no hole in the middle and it does present a discernable soundstage) but has that woody sound. They are plugged as tightly into the corners as I can get them and I do have two very good drywall corners to use. To answer some other questions: Bob can't fix the bad tweeter because the diaphragms are not available. My other speakers sound great on the same system. As I mentioned, I can A/B them without much trouble. Even an old pair of Bose 901 series twos sounds better. I have talked to Bob about the level issue and autotransformer and he advised against changing taps on the autotransformer because that changes the crossover frequencies. (He also advised against using L-pads but you know, my JBL Summits have them and they sound great, but I did need to adjust them to get the best sound to suit my ears, so I think the benefit outweights the risk. ) I'm confused as to the risk from not having the cabinets tightly sealed into the corners. I bought a pair of speakerlab K's for my uncle and he doesn't even have them in a corner at all and they sound ten times better, and without the wood resonance. If uncoupling from the corner can disturb the frequency characteristics of a khorn that much, I would think his should sound even worse. In other words, I don't want to go to elaborate extremes to couple these into the corners if it doesn't solve the problem. I live north of Detroit so being able to hear a pair of properly set up speakers with the same source material would be a great help. Some other things I'm going to more thoroughly investigate are the bass drivers and their seals, the seals of the cabinets (I need to flip them over and make sure some dummy didn't drill 4" holes in the bottoms to let water get out) and I'll probably send my mid horns/crossovers/HF drivers to Bob for evaluation. Given some of the rigs you folks are running, I'm sure you'd clap your hands over your ears and run out of the room when listening to these speakers and I know they can't possibly be sounding right. So keep the suggestions coming and I'll keep you posted on what I find out. I'll put up the serial numbers when I can speakers out and check them.

I finally got around to buying a pair of Khorns about a month ago. I've wanted a set since I bought my first Klipsch speakers (LaScalas) back in 1975. This is a 1980's set with K77m tweeters, K55M midrange, AK3 crossovers. One of the tweeters was dead (open voice coil) so I ordered CT125 replacement tweeters and a 4500 hz crossover from Bob Crites. Upon receipt of the new parts, I removed the old crossover components and rewired the bass sections, which originally contained the bass low pass section inside the cabinet. I put in the new tweeters. On first testing, I felt the midrange and highs were far too "hot" for my taste and inserted 16 ohm and 8 ohm into the mid and high frequency circuits. I'm driving the speakers with an Adcom system-- 5500 amp, with adcom CD and preamp. My other audio components-- a pair of JBL Summit speakers, and a pair of 1984 Cornwalls with Crites rebuilt crossover. To make a long story longer, these Khorns sound absolutely awful. Frankly, I've never heard Khorns before, so I can only compare them with my other speakers. I've checked the bass drivers and they seem fine, with similar resistance readings. Their suspensiones and cones are fine and they are firmly mounted. The bass is exactly the opposite of what I expected. It is bloated, thumpy, crude and has a wooden conga sound that is overpowering. For example, in Carmina Burana's Oh Fortuna where the drums come in strong, they overpower everything else so strongly (and with such an awful sound) that you have to jump up and turn down the volume. I get the same effect with a track like Williams "Star Wars" theme (OSR) where kettle drums overpower everything else. It sounds like the bass section is reproducing far too high a frequency range. This effect is even more pronounced without the L-pads installed. These speakers sound like cheap, thumping garage sale no-brands. The midrange is strong and reedy, which I associate with the horn type speakers. The highs are decent too. Overall, though, the mid/highs lack the fine detail and crispness that I associate with horn speakers. In comparison, the JBL's and Cornwalls have a very clean, clear deep bass with no overtones, crisp highly detailed midrange, and clean highs. The khorns are in good mechanical condition, with clean cabinets and good joints. I can't find anythying to explain why they sound like this and I can't believe this design could sound like this and be successful for so long, so I'm assuming something is wrong. Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot?