DenPureSound

Take a look at the SALK SoundScape 12's (@$14,000/Pair), as Dennis Murphy also designed the Xover's for them. Now, compare the specs of the Philharmonic Audio PH3's (Around $3,000/Pair), and you will see how they both compare, very interesting as I think the specs of the frequency response on the PH3's are even better from 200Hz. through 20KHz. Look at the enclosure sizes, very comparable also supporting the 1/4 Wavelength ML-TL Mass Loaded Transmission Line design -- they state once you hear a speaker with a Transmission Line design you never go back. I have not heard the SoundScape 12's but would love to even though they are way to pricey for my budget here, so I just might have to settle on the Philharmonic Audio PH3's for FL/FR stereo mains. I love the drivers in the PH3's, with one Scanspeak cone woofer, Neo8 Planar, and the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter -- Very Nice Selection of drivers! Maybe soon I will be able to hear the Phil 3's close by I am hoping, as I have heard the RF-7II's.

I have heard the RF-7II's, and have RF-82II's that I am thinking of replacing with some Philharmonic Audio PH3's (3 Way,with 8" Woofer, and Planar Mid, and RAAL Ribbon Tweeter) no horns and not all cone speakers. I am planning on Auditioning the PH3's soon, and most likely from what I can see in specs. nothing else comes close, except some SALK SoundScape 12's but they are $14K per Pair, or some Revel Salon 2's at around $12K. Where I can get the Phil 3's for right around $3K per Pair, and there "Anechoic" chamber plots measure right up there with speakers in the $10K+ per Pair range, and even better than the Palladiums. So if this works out, I will have to leave my Klipsch's for either Wides or another room. If the Phil 3's sound as good as their specs, I will buy them knowing Dennis Murphy designed the Xover, spec'd the drivers, and Paul Kittenger designed the ML-TL for the enclosure.

I would love to get his Salon 2's, but no go... [] Quality speakers for less than $2K each is a task at hand, but we never want to compare Budweiser to Kokanee, either. Getting closer by the day, and I might soon be able to hear those Philharmonic Audio PH3's as a set is going to Portland, OR. this week. Dennis Murphy is never happy w/ his Xover designs, and has always been searching for the best in Inductors, Caps, and Resistors let alone their values/wattage, and the overall design with the ML-TL cabinet at 66 inches in length, and around 80 liters in volume (Over 21 Gallons) for the bottom woofer enclosure, being able to get the terminus ports air velocity reaching its peak of approx. 4.3% of the speed of sound (14.7 m/s) at 23 Hz. But, complementing the PH3's with a couple subs surely will make them sing throughout the room with clarity across the audible freq. spectrum. Only time will tell. He got the Salon's then went onto the KEF's, now onto the PH3's? But, I agree once you have Salon's what else in a speaker do you need? NOTHING!!

I told him I would be glad to give him $2K for ea. Salon 2, but he just got them a few months ago -- I guess I will have to wait for a while. Your right on, he keeps buying/selling and has the upgradis always searching for the BEST, but now it is what is the BEST for the MONEY -- I guess he realizes times are tighter now! Heck he has more in his speakers than I have in my Automobile.

At this point I have not put the Cornwalls into the equation, but that being said how flat are they w/in the average listening window? For those that are interested in looking/researching the Philharmonic Audio PH3's, there is a thread on Audioholics dot com -- just search for Philharmonic and join in if interested. I am not pushing any Mfg. or Model, just researching what mfg. makes a speaker for a reasonable cost like (<$2K per speaker) that shows characteristics w/in the listening window average for on and off axis horizontal and vertical that will be w/in a couple db plus or minus -- basically flat across the 20-20kHz. audible domain -- and so far this research has led me to the Philharmonic Audio speakers -- just so happens Dennis Murphy designed the Xover for them and Paul Kittenger the ML-TL at 66 inches, 3 Way with Planar Ribbon technology. If someone has a speaker that meets this criteria, I am "ALL EARS", and please do let me know.

I am not at that level yet, and maybe never but I do enjoy all the details of what makes a quality speaker, and your right on that the Neo8 Mid driver does have a nasty peak to be tamed at 12kHz. or so. Dennis Murphy uses 19 components (L/R/C) for his Xover design for the three drivers. Your right on the money, that the Philharmonic Audio PH3's do sacrafice the overall sensitivity (85db for 2.83V/1M) for a very flat "anechoic" chamber measurement of SPL vs. Freq. for On and Off Axis concerns indeed. In fact, when I look at the Klipsch Palladium P-39F, they have larger and more peaks and valleys for on/off axis than the PH3's, and that is Klipsch's best at $20K per Pair. What does that say when that is Klipsch's BEST SPEAKER (not putting it down, just looking at their factual data in comparison to other Mfgs/Models)? Your right on, if Flat and Polite is Boring then I will not purchase the PH3's -- but if I hear what I think I will hear from them considering a very clean source recording from a lossless .flac or .wav file, pre/pro/amp of good quality, then I might go that direction and be happy for a few years. Wow, look at the NHT Absolute Zero's at +-0.94db listening window five point average from 200Hz. to 10kHz., and they used to be $150 ea. now they are $200 each. Might just want to buy a pair of those for back room!! Only time will tell, as I have a friend that will be getting his new PH3's in about 45 days from now or so. He then can compare them to his Linkwitz-Orion's, Revel Salon 2's, and KEF 201/2 which ALL are out of my league for cost per box, maybe excluding the KEF's, driven by Denon Flagships.

You would have to ask my X about Vino, although if your a Vino kind of guy you would like your tunes FLAT [] -- my taste buds are in the Hoppers/Malt Varieties, and the Germans seem to own that one.

So what fruit do you enjoy BEST [] for sure you would have to taste both first to make your determination.

Thanks go out to Peter Z. and Skibum both. Since I could not answer your questions I asked Dennis Murphy who as you know designed the Xover for the Salk SoundScapes ($14K/Pair) and of course the Philharmonic Audio PH3's, and he states the following: Per Dennis Murphy: "Hi I think the short answer to these questions is that the Philharmonics were not designed to compete with Klipsch. My goal was to design a speaker that could produce the full breadth of the frequency spectrum with minimal coloration and a realistic sound stage, all in a cabinet of reasonable size. In order to achieve useful bass response down to 22 Hz with only one (very expensive) woofer, sensitivity was the first attribute to suffer. I don't claim that the 3's can hit 120 dB gracefully, nor do I particularly want to be in the same room with a speaker that is producing that sound pressure. I've played in symphony orchestras at full cry for most of my life (and have to take off for a rehearsal very shortly), and to me the 3's reproduce the experience satisfactorily. They produce more undistorted sound than I or my neighbors can tolerate. That said, I don't recommend them as stand-alone speakers (without subs) in a Home Theater system that will be asked to reproduce cannon shots and prehistoric animal charges at house-shaking and ear-piercing volumes. I just finished a design that can do that using Volt drivers from England, but I'll still take the 3's for accurate sound reproduction of music. I do understand the importance of wide dynamic range, and the 3's will equal or surpass most speakers in that regard thanks to the extremely rugged design of the Revelator woofer. But they are not at the top of the heap in that regard. Cheers, Dennis" I am aware that this is a Klipsch forum, and I have invested a lot of monies into my Klipsch's, and just want to upgrade my FL/FR towers for a speaker that will give me total Accuracy across the full audible spectrum - and that is my goal to listen and hear it all from a well recorded source for maybe around a total of $4K / Pair or less. In the near term not buying yet, but someday the Klipsch RF-82II's of which I like, but just wanting to get something different up front, will end up as Wides and be replaced with another Mfg./Model for Fronts, driven off the Denon AVR-4311CI and Emotiva XPA-5. I think there is a point of dimenishing returns on dollars invested vs. the sound quality of the speakers for FL/FR stereo mode, with a couple subs. Also, the ScanSpeak 8" Woofer is 88db (2.83V/1M), and the Neo8 High Performance WideBand Planar Magnetic Xducer is 93db (2.83V/1M), and the RAAL 70-10D Ribbon Tweeter is 92db (2.83V/1M), so I would not classify any of these drivers as not being Sensitive, granted not like the RF-7II's at 101db overall and the PH3's are at 85db overall, so yes there is a big difference in power required to achieve the same SPL levels, but what the real question is what level (SPL) do we really listen to music at, maybe 80 or 85db for most sources, before someone says "Turn it Down"! I feel the difference here is put nicely as the variance between "Polite and Accurate Musical Coloration" maybe vs. "Wide w/ Accent Punch". However, we can use all the words in the stack, all that said will just sit back for now, and enjoy the Klipsch RF-82II's for the time being.

Well, second pass. I lost the previous writeup, as we had a Power Brown-out and everything went crazy like a near death experience here, PC included. [:@] I can not compare the RF-7II's to the PH3's, as I still to date do not have the bench test plots like I do on the PH3's. I can not answer your question on the PH3's when compression sets in either, but will ask Dennis Murphy of Philharmonics that one for sure, good question. I listen to music at 75db SPL for the most part unless some friends come over and bring the brewskies, then I might go up to 90db or a little better, blowing some real smoke into the RF-82II's being driven by the Emotiva XPA-5 (200 W/Ch.) amplifier. But even if the PH3's produce 104db SPL at 40W, then we gain 3db for a doubling of power, so at 107db we need 80W, and at 110db we would need 160W, but gosh I never push my SPL level above 100db here ever! Otherwise, I would not be able to hear who the neighbors called, let alone "The Man" at the front door. [] The RF-7II's with dual 10" woofers, and the horn, must use the horn for Mid-Range and of course the tweeter high frequencies being a Two-Way design. Do you know what the Xover's are for the RF-7II's, and whether it has a ML-TL built in as well? Most people go and just audition speakers and say they sound good, and then buy them, without ever looking at specs especially graph bench test plots first, and looking into the design of the speaker (Transmission Line, Xovers and their component types, 2-Way, 3-Way, Power RMS and PEAK, etc.), which I need being an Engineer first, then I will audition them second. Now, I have Auditioned the RF-7II's and I like them very much for a speaker that I can buy for around $1K each. I would and will soon audition the Paradigm S6's Signature Series, but those are around $2.5+K Each, and the PSB Synchrony Ones as well. So far though, the PH3 data looks the best, and Dennis Murphy is one of the best in the world for Xover designs, and Paul Kittinger who did the Transmission Line design is world renowned also -- If you look at the Salk SoundScape 12's you will see a lot of those two individual's fingerprint on them at $7K Each. Certainly a big step up from the RF-7II, PH3's, S6, or Sync. Ones, more like in the Salon 2 league. So I am not going into Tubes... staying solid-state here with the EMO amp, and the Denon 4311 AVR which totally rocks and gives me the ability to grow with the AVR up to 11.2 if I ever decide to go with that many speakers, of which I doubt, since I am more into music and I mostly listen to it in either STEREO Mode, and/or MultiChStereo Mode also driving the 5.1(2) system here. I love the uPnP DLNA feature on the 4311, and the ability to listen to .flac files off my big Multi-Terabyte drive. To me, if the recording is great I want it in .flac lossless format, and if I have to listen to .mp3's I want them encoded at 320kbps which does not sound to bad, just not as good a lossless .flac or .wav. I don't even turn on my Technics TT as I can not listen to all the pops, crackles, rumbles, clicks, etc. that occurs in the vinyl stuff -- I am totally digital here for sources, and have left the analog domain years ago. The signature of the Klipsch speakers are pretty much the same comparing the RF-82's to the RF-7's at version 2. But, I am dying to hear what the PH3's sound like, and hopefully soon will hear them, as I have yet to see a speaker in the $1.5K Each class that can approach the specs of the PH3's. If you know of one that can approach it, I am ALL EARS, send me the data ... ok.

Nothing like the REAL test of hearing them for sure. I am retired, but also broke ). Dennis Murphy and Paul Kittinger both worked on the SALK SoundScape 12's, which go for $14K per Pair. Take a hard look at the URL = http://www.philharmonicaudio.com and you will see his PH3 specs. He has the PH3's for $3K per Pair, which is hard to beat for a Flat Reference Speaker, but again I really need to hear them, as I have heard the RF-7II's and they sound Excellent to me. Dennis has 15 plots for your review, and I would like to see all more expensive spkr. mfg's. put out their "Anechoic" chamber plots, since we are spending a ton of cash on these types of Reference line speakers, so I want the specs, not like BOSE that will not give you their specs. W/O specs no $$ for those Mfg's. Period. As if the Mfg's. are proud of their speakers and want you to purchase them, they should put out their specs, either bad, good, or great as the case may be in my mind. If you compare the Salk SoundScape 12's to the PH3's you will see a FLAT Speaker across the Audible Spectrum - for sure on-axis, and off-axis does not roll down until around 10KHz. and up at 45 Deg. off-axis. To me I want to start with specs and more specs, then I will audition them lastly.

Thanks, no the Den is for Dennis with two "N"s, just abbreviated. I have the RF-82II's for FL/FR right now, and they are nice but not at the caliber that I want for all audio here. So I checked on the RF-7's and can get a couple of them for around $1100 each new which is a good deal, but am heavily researching speakers in the $2K+ each range to see what I can get for the monies. It is very difficult to get the bench tests for like Paradigm S6 or S8's, Klipsch RF-7II's, PSB Synchrony Ones, and so I stumbled upon "Dennis Murphy" the Xover designer for SALK, and his new company Philharmonic Audio. His PH3 is going for $3K a Pair! When I look at his plots, and all of his data of which there is a ton of stuff online, I was amazed at how they compare to the Salk Soundscape 12's at $14,000/Pair. But so far, I am reluctant to put out any Monies until I can hear them, and they are a BIG improvement over the RF-82II fronts that I presently am running here in Washington State. Do you have the plots on the RF-7II's available? Please do compare the plots of the PH3's vs. the RF-7II's when you get time. The PH3's freq. response is 25-20KHz. (+/- 2db), and has a ML-TL Mass Loaded Transmission Line also, designed by Paul Kittinger. Sure wish I could hear the PH3's, and compare them to the Klipsch RF-7's!

Thanks Dennie, I presently have two RF-82II's for FL/FR's. I am looking now at getting the specs on the RF-7's, and comparing them to Dennis Murphy's latest designed speaker being the Philharmonic PH3's for front left and right. Does anyone know where I can find all of the On and Off Axis plots for dB vs. Freq. of the Klipsch RF-7II's? I have been looking at the PH3's which have unbelievable specs for On and Off Axis and want to do a complete spec. comparison of the two different Tower Speakers. If anyone is interested the PH3's specs are at: http://philharmonicaudio.com/philharmonic3.html Once I can compare the RF-7II's to the PH3's then I will make my decision which way I am going just for the Front Left/Right "DREAM SPEAKERS" for Stereo Mode w/ the Denon AVR-4311CI, which btw will support 11.2 (one 2ch. amp req'd.), and am at 5.2 now, but going to replace the RF-82II fronts with either the RF-7II or Philharmonic PH3's! And certainly if the Klipsch RF-7II's are highly rated their should be published plots of measured data, On and Off Axis. I was amazed all the data that the Philharmonics PH3's have online to compare, even Reverse Null plot and Port Air Velocity as a Function of the Speed of Sound, just amazing -- Klipsch should have that data also, since these towers are around $1.5K Each.

I am researching if setting up my Klipsch RF-82ii's as Wides, and the RF-7ii's as FL/FR driving it with the Denon 4311 makes sense, as the 4311 has 9 Amps, and my EMO XPA-5 has five amps, for total of 14 amps available. I would use the EMO XPA-5 at 200W per Ch. to drive the RF-7's (FL/FR), RC-62 Center, and RS-52 Surrounds (SL/SR), and the 4311 at 140W per ch. to drive the Wides (RF-82ii's). Make sense, but would only hear the Major diff. in MultiChStereo mode for Audio, and of course w/ FL/FR being the RF-7's in Stereo mode, should hear a difference as well. The RF-7ii's are 5.31 ft^3 of volume vs. the RF-82's at 3.85 ft^3 or about 38% more in Volume, and 3db more sensitive at 101db vs. 98db, which one can hear for sure. Dual 10" woofs vs. 8" woofs are around 36% more in Area, about same as cabinet increase in volume -- interesting, Klipsch is doing their research/design thats for sure. My gut is telling me that going with Wides (RF-82ii's), and let the RF-7ii's handle the FL/FR it would also OPEN up the Front Soundstage even more in MultiChStereo Mode - do you agree? Just wanted to get your expert opinion if this all makes good sense for around $2.2K more for RF-7ii Fronts. BTW -- Love My KLIPSCH's -- they are Very REAL and Natural in sound quality.