1504-5
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Posts posted by 1504-5
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Anyone with half a brain can see that Klipsch bins were copied and modified. Put wings one, straight sides on another, it's not rocket science. I'm not even sure why I bother with this, Klipsch doesn't care, why should I? Because HPS sucks GovTeet™ and I'm a taxpayer-that's why! And on top of that, their website is just horrible. How could anyone even take that crapsite seriously? I'd actually like to see a fact check done on the site, since Ian already debunked their worldwide Klipsch distributor claim.
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They didn't copycat the Klipsch speaker designs exactly. Gary Gillum, ex-Klipsch and Associates chief engineer, who's the co-patent holder on the MWM woofer, and his son, who designed the 555 bass bin, built all the speakers for this Boston company with PWK's blessing.
Nope.
In fact, Claude, the following quote was actually addressed to you back in 2010, from Ian Thacker, a former Klipsch employee:
Back to my original post on this
subject of TSCM. John F Allen and co were NEVER the worldwide
distributors for Klipsch products of any kind let alone it's cinema
systems unless you consider the USA as worldwide. This is contrary to
whatever he advertised. Allen was miffed that Klipsch sold the
professional/industrial products division to WWR Technologies, (doing
business as Klipsch Professional), who advanced the product line and
subsequently boosted sales competing with HPS. Allen had to purchase
TSCM products from Klipsch Pro and Gary Gillum did produce some MCM and
Heresy "knock-offs". I can assure you that was without the blessing of
PWK. Allen's volume of sales as a competitor were considered so minimal
that I turned a blind eye to the fact that HPS systems were primarilly
Klipsch product being produced by G2 for John Allen. I knew that
whatever G2 produced from that line would still be of the highest
integrity and would not harm Klipsch. So if you come accross any of
those Gary Gillum produced goodies then do revere them for what they
are.HPS-4000 systems and John F Allen no longer mention their
Klipsch heritage and associations...........make your own mind up about
that.Claude .....my name is Ian Thacker and I pop in from time to
time on this forum. I offer insight for those interested in how Klipch
developed in the commercial products arena and to keep in touch with a
few of the old farts like me left from earlier days of Klipsch. I became
a Klipsch aficionado back in the late 1960's and 1978 I took the reins
of distribution for all Klipsch products in Australasia and the south
Pacific. (someone had to call on all those islands and I bet there are
still many HP1's & CP1's hanging in beach bars) This eventually led
to me relocating to Hope AR and to work for Klipsch and Associates. I
was around when PWK sold the company to Fred Klipsch. When Fred sold the
pro division I became its leader and Paul and I remained good friends
(enjoying many a bottle of Bushmills together). I am not here to blow
any horn .....but I will brag that my TV sound system is based around
a pair of KG2's. KG2 as in K - G squared ..................Klipsch -
Gary Gillum. Cheers!Let's not forget this gem:
well woopy do ClaudeJ1. I will be
forever impressed by your vast knowledge and insight into the earlier
days of Klipsch. As that you quoted my comment about John F Allen I'll
take it that you directed your words at me, with the intention to
"educate" me about John Allen, Gary Gillum, Paul Klipsch et al. Do you
have any idea to whom you just enlightened about Klipsch history? Like
my friend Gary Gillum, I too go "back over 30 years on this stuff". Cheers!You may want to revisit this thread, Claude:
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That's great as I don't want to have to spend another $135+. I am currently using onboard audio: ALC662 with Windows 7 OS (that's why I want to add the DAC).If you plan to control volume with the pc/HRT Music Streamer II, you won't need the 2226B. What sound chip/card and OS does your pc have now?
The 24 bit HRT Music Streamer II is an excellent choice for your needs, although it may or may not make a noticeable difference over your onboard DAC. If you're leaning towards "audiophile" performance, control the volume after the DAC with a preamp. Again, depending on your system/media, this also may or may not be an improvement compared to your onboard audio.
Here are some guides for setting up Win 7 audio.
http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/downloads/Windows_7_Optimization_Guide.pdf
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_7_Audio_Playback_-_Setup_Guide -
I think I may have jumped on the mono blocks too early. I bought them today (before reading 1504-5's post) after demoing them at the owner's house. They sounded good at moderate volume on a pair of low-quality Sony speakers. When I got home and hooked them up to my KGs they sounded noticeably (although not horribly) worse than my Yamaha at low volumes. As soon as I turned it up the amps lost all sound and started making a clicking noise. I looked online and the source of the click is from the protection circuitry cutting off power to the amp. This kept happening at around the same volume (about 76-80dBA so not too loud at all! My Yamaha can make the KG's put out 97dBA!).
Was I tricked? The owner did not play them any louder than 75dB (in retrospect I was stupid not to ask him to).
What should I do? Attempt a repair (from what I saw it is most likely bad caps that need to be replaced)? Attempt a return?
PS I checked the DC offset and it seems to be in range: 10mV on both amps.
And this why I hate suggesting old electronics to noobs (no offense). I'm sorry you missed my post, but to be fair I did add the part about the MA-500 caps last night, most likely after you made the purchase.
Return the amps ASAP! If the owner refuses, talk to a lawyer - the 1st session is free, although you may want to verify this. This is a known defect - research and print online info. Also print the ad and this thread, as it establishes a timeline. Even if the lawyer says the seller did nothing wrong, ask how much it would cost to have the lawyer send the seller a friendly reminder (threat letter). Most people are ignorant/scared to death of the legal system (my neighboors for instance), especially if they know they were less than honest, which seems to be the case here.
I would not suggest recapping them yourself unless you are experienced - apparently the circuit boards are cheap and easily damaged.
"The Marantz has a crappy circuit board made overseas so extreme care must be taken when working on it. When made the leads are bent over and hard to get out without damaging the foil on the PC board. If you are not capable of doing this I would suggest taking it to a repair facility and having them do it."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/101345-marantz-ma500-only-50hz-output.html#post1202877
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"Marantz MA-500 cutting out..."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/210988-marantz-ma-500-cutting-out.html
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"Be aware though if they are more than 4 years old they WILL need a capacitor change job..They ALL need a cap job sooner or later."
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2829191&postcount=3--
"Yup, seems the accountants forced them to use El Cheapo Wonton Noodle caps that could not take the heat. Rule of thumb here, after 4 years they are on borrowed time. Like I said the amps run warm, the bad caps affected the self protection mode and the amps would shut down with only a few watts output."
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2829781&postcount=6--
Buying used gear (other peoples junk) is always a crap shoot.
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I think I may just go with that setup. I'm speaking to both of the sellers now. Thanks for the help guys. I do have another question though; would I even need the Marantz 2226B as a preamp if I'm going to be using a DAC connect to my computer? Can't I just connect the DAC to the Marantz monoblocks?
If you plan to control volume with the pc/HRT Music Streamer II, you won't need the 2226B. What sound chip/card and OS does your pc have now?
With the exception of the Ashly, a quick google search reveals the amps in the OP are pretty crappy. Unless something is amiss with your Yamaha htr-6030, the 125w mono blocks probably won't make much of a difference. You might want to consider the cost of recapping especially if you're interested in the MA-500's, as they have known cap failures.
When buying used receivers/amps "as is", you should at the very least check DC offset, prior to purchase.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5634
I myself would take a tone generator and dummy load, too. -
Any appreciable difference between the T4A and T5A autoformers?
2dB
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Dtel, Can you reply about when turning on and off does it pop or thump, this is one reason I passed on Parasound, but I never found any comments about it on the Crown. Till now.
Sorry I didn't see this, yes they do thump a little, one almost always and the other on occasion and only in the bass bins and it's not loud at all, not enough for me to worry at all.
Anyway I usually leave them on, at less than 15 watts idle it's not a big deal especially when they are working 6-8 hours a day.
Thanks about the thumping, I will see how bad mine is after I get it, some comments stated its noticeable, some stated no thump, but I guess you can remedy it with a cap or a time delay switch without too much effort.
A relay will protect from on/off thumps/pops. A cap will protect from on/off thumps/pops and block DC - although it may cause phase shift issues.
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Page 8 says 250watts@ 8 ohms, but it's not the whole list of specs, but an overview of each xseries. The sales guys must have written all the copy.
Just another glaring example of Emotiva incompetence.
Other possible scenarios:
1. True and accurate test results were used for the overview.
2. An incredibly inept technician mistook the overview info for the specifications sheet - concluded testing once the XPA-2 met said "specs". This might explain the questionable results in the Audio Precision Spec Test Data pdf - and a few other things. -
so if it is 260 watts at 1khz, wonder how many watts that is at 20khz?
There is no way to know without proper testing.
If you're wondering about 1kHz vs 20Hz-20kHz power ratings, EIA 1kHz ratings are usually 10-20% higher than FTC 20Hz-20kHz ratings.
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I know this thread is old, but here are a few posts from Ian Thacker on the KP600 system history.
A little Ian background 1st:I became a Klipsch aficionado back in the late 1960's and 1978 I took the reins of distribution for all Klipsch products in Australasia and the south Pacific. (someone had to call on all those islands and I bet there are still many HP1's & CP1's hanging in beach bars) This eventually led to me relocating to Hope AR and to work for Klipsch and Associates. I was around when PWK sold the company to Fred Klipsch. When Fred sold the pro division I became its leader and Paul and I remained good friends (enjoying many a bottle of Bushmills together).
I just read this thread about the KP600 system.............. many interesting comments. However, no one has chimed in on this yet about the Italian connection. Lest we forget.
The KP 600 system's initial design with its unique attributes actually started in Brescia, Northern Italy. Yes that got your attention!
The concept was the brainchild of a 1960's rock musician by the name of Guido Noselli. The company that he founded in the 70's, Outline, was for many years the distributor for Klipsch & Associates in Italy. Outline distributed both the consumer and professional product lines for Klipsch alongside their own products that were designed in house and had many engineering exchanges. Outline continued its association with WWR/Klipsch Professional. Klipsch and Outline exchanged many ideas over the years. The entire engineering crew at K&A (not just Hunter and Delgado for there were many others) did a great job on the KP600 but it was not just a homegrown Hope, AR thing.
Bump!!! I am not sure what you meant by that but it brought to mind to ask if anyone had noticed that the KP600 system was designed to pack efficiently into a standard semi-trailer van. The first stack would roll into the truck and sit to one side facing forward. The second stack would roll in and be placed along side but facing aft thus utilizing the full width of the trailer ..............and so on.
Made life easy for the bump out and rolling down the highway!!!.
Link to thread:
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/101593.aspx?PageIndex=1 -
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Please provide a link to the manual.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa2
A few years ago, you’d have to pay thousands for power and finesse like this. Consider the massive toroidal power supply, 24 high-current output devices, and an elegant and sophisticated power amp design that delivers 300W into 8 ohms, and 500W into 4 ohms with both channels driven. The XPA-2 provides serious headroom, the kind that really wakes up your speakers. Enjoy the tight, controlled bass and effortlessly detailed highs.
Specifications
* Number of channels: 2
* Topology: fully discrete, dual differential, high current, short signal path Class A/B
* Power output (all channels driven):
500 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
300 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)
* Rated power bandwidth: 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than .05 dB deviation at rated power
* Output devices: 12 per channel
* Broadband frequency response: (-3 dB): 5Hz to 150kHz -
You must read everything! Emotiva rated the output to 0.1% THD, but the test data is lower at 0.02% (plus or minus a little per channel), so the output power it lower on the test.The 1kHz power output is just sad - 265wpc @ 8ohms is ballpark
212-238wpc 20Hz-20kHz. That's from an advertised 300wpc amp.Bruce
The question is, why did they stop at 266.8/264.1 watts? Did Ch 1 oscillate at 267? Did Ch 2 clip at 265? Did it burst into flames prior to test completion? Again, this was at 1kHz, the power output should have been higher than the advertised 300wpc 20Hz-20kHz rating.
Read it: Signal Path 1: Level and Gain at rated power output
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No. This type of trollish baiting is not welcome and does not add to the discussion. Give it a rest.
Then why make statements like this:
The fact that Emo is even in the discussion is testament to their value.
When the obvious answer is this:
Why are they being discussed, again? Because the OP already has them, that's why. That is not a testament to their value, at all.
I'm not trolling. I'm holding your feet to the fire. If you don't like it...
If you'd like to contribute to the discussion, you could contact Emotiva,
and find out why the XPA-2 Audio Precision Spec Test Data is so
jacked. The 1kHz power output is just sad - 265wpc @ 8ohms is ballpark
212-238wpc 20Hz-20kHz. That's from an advertised 300wpc amp. Also, why
don't they advertise IM distortion, damping factor, and input
sensitivity? And what's up with the warranty page on the website?
Thanks.
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No, this part:
The fact that Emo is even in the discussion is testament to their value.
Why are they being discussed, again? Because the OP already has them, that's why. That is not a testament to their value, at all. Are you by chance associated with Emotiva, in any way?
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I'm not so sure how important time alignment is for the application of just your center channel.
I would think that since the center is for dialogue, time alignment would be very important. Since we're so accustomed to hearing the human voice, any distortion, time smearing, etc is easily identified. In fact, I will go so far as to say that the center channel is the most important for accurate audio reproduction in a HT setting. IMO
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I'm actually very disappointed with Emotiva after my research. I would never recommend them to anyone. Their specs are questionable and the website is shoddy. Click on the warranty link and see what happens. I think you're missing the point about their value to this discussion completely.
On paper, they are completely worthless for use with an active system. And from what Mark says, this has been verified with actual use. That said, they might work OK with a passive bi-amped system.
http://www.emotiva.com/legal/warranty
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So you suggest that he dump the Emo's for what, exactly? What other pro amps and crossovers have you used?
I suggest Emotiva be dumped for strong technical reasons based on his desire to build an active crossed system. The amps have no gain controls. I'm not going any further there. That's fundamental number 1. You can't have a properly balanced system if you can't adjust your amps. You canot use the processor to adjust the volume and gain of your system. You need to use the amp gains. The other issue with Emotiva is they produce high gain amps. Not what you want.
You like Emotiva? Buy it all day long if that's what sounds good to you. I'm just stating some facts concerning this thread.
I understand the "why", I meant "what" should the Emotivas be replaced with. What brand amps do you suggest? We need names.Also, I have found that a GOOD home audio amp will always sound better than a PRO audio amp.
So I'm not averse to the pro amps or pro equipment at all. But the 40+ year old Macs destroy the brand new QSC in clarity on the upper frequencies. They are home audio amps from the late 60s / early 70s.
OK, just so we're on the same page, those statements were made after comparing the PLX2 1104 and 1804, and only the PLX2 1104 and 1804 to your Macs? What other pro amps have you used? -
I would forget about "watts per dollar" and focus on sound quality. You don't need a lot of watts.
Yeah, that was just me debunking the Emotiva "value leader" myth. I still stand by my statement that pro amps give more bang per buck.
If you are building an active crossed system the fundamentals of
"equipment matching" for impedances and sound synergies are far more
important and actually critical so you don't wind up sorry you did this.I built 2-3 active systems that were piss poor because I used Behringer stuff and high powered pro amps. I ended up selling everything and starting from scratch. I was so sorry I ever tried. Yeah, the cheap stuff got me in the game but the sound quality took a dive instead of getting better.
Building an active system is serious business if you are bent on achieving audiophile quility sound. You don't just slap it together on a budget to get better sound.
I suggest consider spending the most you can afford on the processor as this is the heart of it all. Cheaping out here will make you sorry you did this in the first place. I learned this lesson myself twice before I finally spent $1200 on an Ashly processor and then things got really good.
Also, I have found that a GOOD home audio amp will always sound better than a PRO audio amp. That being said there are some very good sounding pro amps that a lot of guys use here (myself included QSC for woofers and subs)..............but they are not as resolving and detailed as a GOOD home audio amp. When I put the QSC (PLX2 1104 and 1804) on the HF horns, they disappointed me.
You just need to decide your goals and move forward accordingly.
So you suggest that he dump the Emo's for what, exactly? What other pro amps and crossovers have you used? -
Found this info about the D-75a. I stopped reading at this point:
Ok, in regards to this Crown D-75A I'm getting, I have been told by David Glass at Crown that this amp does indeed put out a thump durring turn-on/off.
This is bad news, especially in an active system. If you decide to use the Thumper-75a, you might want to look at the suggestions in the thread.
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But they really sound good when working right, I would love to have some new ones but for what they cost new I would look at comparing other amps.
Those little guys are pricey!
The EV 7100 is rated at 75 wpc, 8 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz is in the same price range. I've never used one though, so I can't recommend it.
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Edited my Mon, Apr 2 2012 12:40 AM post to read:
"40 watts rated @ 1kHz may be as low as 32 watts from 20Hz-20kHz." -
I'm 90% sure I'm going for the Crown d-75a. Thanks.
Does it put out enough power for the intended purpose? 40 watts rated @ 1kHz may be as low as 32 watts from 20Hz-20kHz. What speakers are you driving?
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I'm not sure what all those emoticons mean, I take it you disagree with me?
I agree, although not the ugliest, there nothing to look at, unless you like blinky lights. If so between the Crowns and the EV there are plenty lights moving when you give it a little volume.
Your 1U units look OK. It's the newer silver faced crap I don't like. Btw, I cover annoying, bright LED's with Coax Seal. It looks like tar but it's more like thick silly putty - w/o the oily residue. If it's an important indicator light, I leave a pinhole.
HPS 4000 545-4 system
in Klipsch Pro Audio
Posted
Look familiar?
Like Ian says, "HPS-4000 systems and John F Allen no longer mention their Klipsch heritage and associations...........make your own mind up about that."