1504-5
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Posts posted by 1504-5
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Pros
More bang for your buckTypically, yes, but when you put the amps on a level playing field then some consumer gear is superior (at least in regards to the dollar/watt measure). Compare Emo XPA series amps to the Behringer pro-sumer amps, using full bandwidth, all channels driven power within distortion limits, and you'll find that Emotiva actually has more watts/dollar than the Behringers. That's not to say the Emos are better (lack gain controls, high inherent gain structure), but they do provide more watts per dollar.
Emotiva is the present value leader in consumer amps while Behringer is kind of a bottom feeder, so perhaps that's an unfair example. But the point I would like the OP to take to heart is that it is important to make sure you're making an appropriate comparison, as the manufacturer provided specs are often quite misleading.
OK, we get it, you don't like Behringer. How about QSC?
The following are all class AB, specs are 20Hz-20kHz, 8 ohms, 0.1% THD. Note - QSC lists IM distortion, damping factor, and input sensitivity, Emotiva does not. It's not listed in their manuals, on the website or in their "Audio Precision Spec Test Data" .pdfs! And why does the XPA-2 Audio Precision Spec Test Data.pdf show the 1kHz output as 265 wpc @ 8 ohms (see screen shot below)? Let's talk about misleading.
Emo XPA-2 $1.33 per watt - may be more due to questionable spec data, Emo UPA-1 $1.74, QSC RMX 1450 $.96
Emotiva XPA-2 $799, 300? wpc x2, warranty - 5yr
Emotiva UPA-1 $349, 200 wpc x1, warranty - 5yr
QSC RMX 1450 $499, 260 wpc x2, 800 mono, gain controls, 3+3yr warrantyhttp://shop.emotiva.com/collections/x-series/products/xpa2
http://emotiva.com/resources/media/xpa2/xpa2_8ohm.pdf
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/ultra-series/products/upa1
http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/rmx/rmx.htm
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I'm not sure what all those emoticons mean, I take it you disagree with me?
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But the point I would like the OP to take to heart is that it is important to make sure you're making an appropriate comparison, as the manufacturer provided specs are often quite misleading.
I can't argue with this. Some pro amp specs are shady.
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Here is a blind test between a Behringer amp and some pricey audiophile gear.
http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htmVarious Pro Amps tested at the AVS Forum
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Sorry I thought I was done, but after much researching I have another question. Is there any real difference between the home audio amps, (Parasound, Emotiva, Outlaw) and I think they call them DJ amps (Crown, QSC, Behringer, Samson, Peavey). These would be used for bi-amp, and future tri-amp Home theater setup.
Thanks
Pro Audio Amps
Pros
More bang for your buck
Cons
Ugly
Fan noise - some modify or replace fans, the best solution is to locate the amp to a ventilated closet or another room.
Input sensitivity - may require higher input voltages to reach full output power. If you're using a pro active crossover, this shouldn't be an issue. On the other hand, if you're using the preamp subwoofer output of a consumer reciever to drive a pro amp, this may be a problem.
Here is some info on Gain Structure, which is useful to know when you start mixing pro and consumer gear. Lots to read here, I would suggest looking at Part 3 first. -
I apologize for the confusion, I read that the Emotiva UPA-1's XLR connections are not balanced, I'm not sure whether this is true or not. And yes, XLR connections are normally balanced. As was suggested, I would stay away from amps w/o gain controls for active use.
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If building an active system I would completely avoid Emotiva amps. You need gain controls for sure. None of their amps have any. They also have high gain and so the only way to balance such a system is to turn down the processor (crossover) outputs which can cause a high noise floor.
Lots of people complain about noise (hiss) with Emotiva amps. Using them in an active setup only makes things worse.
WTF? Even power amps from the 1980's have gain controls. And from what I just read, the XLR connectors aren't balanced.
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You might want to read this entire article before you start buying stuff.
Active Vs. Passive Crossovers
http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm
Exerpt:
2.2 - The Active Solution
With an active crossover, the amplifier is connected directly to the
driver, and the only thing between them is the loudspeaker cable. The
amplifier presents the maximum damping factor at all times, regardless
of frequency, and is not affected by the crossover network, since that
is also active, and located before the power amp.The loudspeaker driver now has the maximum control that the amplifier
can provide, across the entire frequency range - not just the crossover
network's pass band. The difference in damping is quite obvious, and
although some (very well behaved) drivers will show little improvement,
the vast majority will be much better controlled, and this will show in
an impulse measurement. Not at all uncommonly, it will also show up on a
swept sinewave frequency response measurement as well, with the
amplitude of peaks and dips generally reduced (albeit marginally in most
cases).Well apart from the other advantages of an active system, this is
perhaps one of the most compelling reasons to use an active system
rather than passive. Not only is it possible to achieve the maximum
damping, but if it is determined that a particular driver is best suited
to some defined impedance, this can be provided by the amplifier, and
will be stable across the frequency range. In some cases, just a series
resistor will be sufficient, and even though there will be some power
loss, if it makes the driver behave the way it should, then any small
power loss is a small price to pay.In short, there is simply no comparison between the two systems. A passive XO will always
add (usually) undesirable impedance to that seen by the driver(s), the
impedance is frequency dependent, and ranges from perhaps an ohm or so
to almost infinite. The potential for uncontrolled cone movement,
intermodulation distortion and loss of performance is so great that it
is impossible to determine in advance, but it is all negated in one fell
swoop by using a fully active system. -
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PC based solutions - for those interested in DIY
Open Source
I haven't been keeping up with this, although there are several threads at DIY Audio. Check here if interested.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/
Closed Source
http://www.thuneau.com/index.htm
Frequency Allocator - 4 way Xover - USD $149
PS- If you go with the Behringer DCX2496 digital X-over, here is a multi-thousand post thread at DIY Audio.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/15943-behringer-dcx2496-digital-x-over.html -
MiniDSP
Starts at USD $99, software plugins are $10
Thread at AV Science Forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1281290
MiniDSP Forum at DIY Audio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/minidsp/
I use 2-2x4's w/ 2.1 Advanced software in a 4-way config. One 2x4 handles Subs and HF - the other for LF and MF. Both are USB powered via rackmount PC. Total cost was $218 for the 2 kits and one plugin.
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Anyone now how similar the HPS 4000 system is to the MCM system ?
1. The following best describes www.hps4000.com:
a. welcome to 1998!
b. worst.ProSpeaker.website.ever.
c. vomit
d. @$$!
e. all of the above2. The business plan of HPS is:
a. @$$!
b. vomit
c. @$$!-vomit
d. govmnt teet
e. who needs R&D, we'll just copycat Klipsch horn loaded speaker designs!
f. all of the above -
As general question to builders on the forum, has anybody eithe modled in HR or ABACA what that 3/4" step on the La Scalla does to the sound (or has anyone filled it in to see?) ? it seems like a turbulence generator.
Thanks a bunch for the link. Did you by chance make a drawing? Question, are these designed for a 12 or a 15? The doghouse follows the La Scalla style, if you follow the side of the dog house back fron the front point you come to that 3/4" step. Aside from making things stiffer at theat panel joint what is the function or purpose of that 3/4" jog? I would have thought it would cause a lot of turbulence no? Thanks and best regards Moray James.
no the 3/4" jog on where the long side of the dog house meets the short side. Looking from the pointed front of the dog house into the horn. Sorry I don't have a picture is this making sense? then jusst past that continuing toward the throat just past the 3/4" step...
Do you mean the area that the red arrows are pointing at?
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Nice job! I see your Budget Tweeters™, now tell us about the rest of your mods.
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See page 5 section 3.6 of the attached EV 7100 manual.
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Thank you. Also, thanks djk and moray james.
ps - if you ever open these up please post internal pics in this thread.
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Thanks for taking the time to do that kg4guy. If it's not too much of a problem could you post a rearview pic? No need to disassemble anything - I just want to see the back of the cab.
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That's all well and good but I'm interested in MB-2 plans at this time.
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Actually, the MB-2 is 2 segments. It looks like s1 is parallel. Some measurements would be helpful - hint, hint kg4guy
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Thanks djk!
Those are huge, as wide as 2 FH-1 bins!
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Have you ever thought of building a pair? Seems like an easy build. Maybe someone could post dimensions.
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Ports are 4 inch
Black widows are 1.5 vents
sorry for the confusion
I resemble that remark! Nah, I wasn't confused, I guess I should have used one of those smilies you kids use these days...
Are you looking for Mb-2's? How far are you willing to drive? There is a pair of "empty with magnets" MB-2's down here for $100. I'll be taking a drive up to Ohio in the near future to pick up an engine, I could possibly meet you somewhere on the way up. Of course, I would want to be reimbursed gas for going out of my way. My vehicle is rated at 24/27mpg.
Here's a pic of the actual bins.
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my pair came with the 1.5 inch vented black widows.
Those vents look bigger than 1.5"!
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Now I would love to have a pair of those bass bottoms and the MB-1 horn's is this your set up ?More Peavey Stackage
No, the Project 1 is not mine. I had a longish story to go along with the pic, but somehow it didn't post... I'll spare you.
The best way to increase low end with the FH-1 is to either stack them 4x4 or add subs Seriously though, I never run my FH-1's below 100Hz. Unless stacked, they don't have much useable below 80Hz.Heck, even the FH-2 bin from the Project 1 used the HDH Sub-which by todays standards would require another sub!
Seriously though, I never run my FH-1's below 100Hz. Unless stacked, they don't have much useable below 80Hz.
Biamping crossover suggestion not diy
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Indeed. And still $.96 per watt.
QSC PLX 1104 $594, 310 wpc x2, Free 6 year extended warranty per QSC website
http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/plx2/plx1104_specifications.htm
http://www.djdeals.com/qscPLX1104.htm