Charly Tune A

Thanks to everyone for all their inputs. I have decided that separates are not for this working stiff yet. The cheater plug was a bad idea that solved several problems. (Thanks Doug) But the viable alternatives needed to correctly solve these problems are somewhat more expensive with NO guarantee of success. (line conditioners, multiple cable ground isolators, etc.) I simply dont feel the benefit gained would be worth my effort. I guess Ive learned that hobbying with stereo components is expensive and somewhat frustrating for me. Ive discovered that Im just a plug in and play type of guy. But what it really boils down to is I just couldnt hear any great improvement between the Acurus and my Sony. At least not enough to warrant the effort or money needed to eliminate the noise from being induced into the amp. A mans got to know his limitations, so I think I have found mine. The Acurus went back to the store. Ive bought 3 RC-7s for my stereo and front theater soundstage. Ive only got 1 so far, the other 2 are back ordered. I hooked it up as the center last night, and saw an immediate improvement in just the TV sound, like night and day. (And I thought the KSF-C5 was pretty good to begin with.) Ill let you know how the whole setup sounds once I get the other 2. I can hardly wait. Thanks again everyone and happy listening.

Everyone, thanks for all the input. BobG, sorry for railing on your new company partner Mondial, Im just a newbie when is comes to separates and failed to peruse the forums before my knee jerk reaction. Yes sir, you were absolutely right about the ground loop hum or buzz, I found that out on the Mondial forum shortly after my last post. (So much good info out there, so little time) While a good line conditioner may correct the hum, I bought a 63 cent cheater plug at Lowes that solved two problems. One, the ground loop noise path is broken and the hum is gone completely. Two, I can now plug the amps 3 prong plug directly into the Sony receivers 2 prong switched outlet, allowing for remote on/off operation. While Im thinking this may not be the best solution if I were to drive the amp hard to reach painful sound levels, I think this might work well with the very efficient Klipsch. In other words, I really dont think the power draw will ever be that significant requiring a direct wall connection as suggested in the owners pamphlet. What do you think, am I really limiting the amp? I will admit that with my old KSB 3.1s, the amps overall sound seemed somewhat cleaner than with the receiver alone now that I have listened to them a while. Again, this may be more psychological than anything. I know there is 90 more watts of dynamic power available if extra current is ever needed for certain passages. The high end distortion of my 3.1s is still there as it has always been. It sounds like a high quiet ssshhh whereas the tweet may be struggling to reproduce more than it is capable. This ssshhh translated into incredible detail with the new RF-7s. The 3.1s have been great speakers overall and have served me well, but that new super tweeter of the RF line is more accurate and open than anything I have heard to date. The B&W Nautilus 803s and 804s that I listened too in the local audiophile store were open but I also found them very bright, fatiguing, and makes your teeth grind after a few minutes. (Tested with a 200 watt Rotel amp) They were so in your face and up front sounding, that they were almost behind you! Overall, I think Klipsch gets a bum rap for making bright speakers. I think the accuracy and clarity translates to brightness for some people who own even cheaper electronics than me. My so-called bright Sony receiver matched up pretty well with the KSB 3.1s and I have been very happy overall. But now I want that extra definition that creates a sense of being there and the amazing out of the box ambiance that the RF-7s produced (and have now spoiled me on). Its just time to move up to the next level. Dean, thanks for your input guy, Ive decided to try your setup with the RC-7s as mains. But I have a question. According to the Klipsch info site, the RC-7s have a 2.5-way crossover with a tapered-array configuration. It sends some of the midrange info to one of its 8 drivers for smoother transitioning and improved dialog. Which one is it, the left or the right? (facing the front) I would assume that placing the dedicated woofer on the bottom and the mid/woof on top with be preferable to the reverse. Is the difference in sound obvious enough to hear when listening? And did you have any problems removing the tweeter from the front and swirling it? Any more info on this front would be greatly appreciated. Mike, Im sorry about the earlier criticism about Denon as I was rather harsh. The receiver really sounded just fine, but personally not that much better than the Sony for me to justify the cost. Also I was demoing the 4802 which has 2 more amps crammed into the same basic case, so it may be somewhat lacking compared to the 4800 according to some of the forums Ive read. Also, the addition of another Pronto type remote which comes with the receiver, was overkill for me since Ive already got one. TheEAR, in your last post, you said, You should hear the upgrade a great power amp makes to some large bass deprived speakers! Those who complain about the bass lacking often use receivers. Are you saying (between the lines) that the Acurus is not a great amp? I found no noticeable difference in the bass dynamics with the 200W Acurus and the 110W Sony receiver with the RF-7s at normal listening levels in my average size living room. The bass deprived beasts were not bass absent by the way, and I may have given that impression. Its just the presentation of the bass was smooth and surprisingly understated compared to the RF-3s, and KSB 3.1s. A bad analogy would be like eating fried chicken vs. buffalo wings. While they both taste good, I could eat the wings everyday, whereas the fried chicken would get old fast to me. If I could never eat hot buffalo wings again and had to settle for KFC original recipe, I would be bummed. Thats how I feel about the RF-7s, they are really good listening, but dont have the lower end slap of the 8 drivers to my ear. I have a KSW-15 that handles the much lower end music stuff and movie effects very well. I just want that mid-bass speed and punch that seems to break through in spades in my 3.1s and the RF-3s. To me, the RF-7s are not as interesting in the low end for whatever aural reason my ears have come up with. But personal preference is what its all about. Isnt it great to live in a free country and have the freedom to choose little things like speakers that can make our existence here on earth a bit happier. Its no wonder that other people are jealous of what we have here in America. Its just really sad that evil hatred is sometimes born of this jealousy. We are truly a blessed society, and I thank God every day for having been born in a free country rather than Afghanistan, or even Russia. Thanks again.

Thanks everyone for your responses, my computer has been down for a couple of days so I'm just now back on. I did take Mike's advice and try another more powerful amp. I tried the Acurus 200X5 with my Sony as the head unit. (Point of fact, I was disappointed entirely with the whole Acurus experience which Ill discuss in a moment.) The bottom line, a new amp simply didn't help the bass output at all. In fact, at normal listening levels I couldn't find a discernable difference in high, mid, or bass output at all. Maybe at ear bleed levels there may be a difference, but I tested it pretty loud. Im not sure if it is the crossover network with that big tweet just sucking the bass out of the woof or what. The 2 10s had no thump, no impact, no depth. Its hard to explain, but the mid bass kick drum and bass guitar runs that I consider important detail to involve me into the whole musical experience just wasnt there on the RF-7s. The highs and mids imaged fantastic and the accuracy and detail are all there, better than I have ever heard. But the mid bass rolled off and low bass disappeared entirely on many of the tracks I listened too. Deang, I heartily agree with your assessment of towers and 2 tens. I also liked your idea with the 2 centers and swirled horns. Do you get mid bass impact and lower end detail AND get the out of the box highs and imaging with that set up? Mmm, I may have to think seriously about that one. : BobG thanks for weighing in. I did try different speaker positions, closer to the wall, etc. but I could not convince the 7s to capture the visceral impact that I was looking for. Those 2 lonely 10s just sat there like they had nothing to do sometimes. Other times the bass was there, but more muted and smooth, and very understated compared to the crisp highs and mids. Tone Locs Break it down bass section on Funky Cold Medina wouldnt hurt a fly with the RF-7s, Im sorry to say. BobG, is it possible that when Klipsch designed these behemoths, they may have had more classical tastes in mind? I listened to a lot of jazz and acoustical and the RF-7s sound pretty darn good on some of these more mellow tracks. But when I want to rock and roll, they just missed the boat for me in the deep and rapid bass department. They sounded to me like they were not interested in giving it up for some reason. Could the refinement team have concentrated on one area a music and left us old time rock and rollers behind? And for TheEAR. As for the Sony not putting out the bass, I proved that wrong by hooking up some of my old, old Infinity 12 inch slop jobs I had in my garage. They shook the walls. (Of course that about all they did sound wise, thats why theyre in the garage) You are right, the bass control needs adjusting up a bit, but the Sony DB930 allows you to adjust the lower frequency midpoint that you can adjust up or down from 100hz to 1Khz. I know to the purest like yourself, this means absolutely nothing to you, as everything should be played flat on a good amp like a Bryston. I would probably agree if I could afford a Bryston. But I guess Im just another uncouth audiophile wannabe that likes to fiddle with the controls and try and get more sound out of my toys than they can probably supply. I do occasionally like to revisit my childhood and press the infamous bass boost button to wake up the neighbors cat. That being said, music and sound is a very personal decision, and Im finding out, a tougher one than I had anticipated. Basically I want it all: detail, accuracy, involvement, soundstage, imaging, bass impact, feeling and overall balance. I want to feel like I am there in the room while Eric Clapton plays. Klipsch RF-7s get me halfway there (the top half) but just not down to the bottom half. I dont have real deep pockets but I have a extra few dollars, and my wifes approval, to upgrade my Klipsch bookshelf and sub system and I must get the most bang for my buck. The RF-7s struck me as a fine bookshelf disguised at a tower. If Klipsch would put one fast 8 inch woofer setup in a bookshelf with that fantastic 1.7 inch tweeter, there is no one in the industry that could touch it. It would blow the doors off of everything from planers to ribbons. Im still thinking about the center setup that Deang mentioned, I wonder if this is the panacea that I am looking for. As for the Acurus 200X5 amp, the two page pamphlet that was the owners manual suggests plugging it into the wall directly to get the most direct power draw for the amp. Unfortunately a loud, noisy A/C hum was transferred to the RF-7 speakers. It subsided to a slight buzz/hum after plugging it into a good power strip instead. I know a good line conditioner is a must for good equipment and I planned on getting one. But I would expect better filtration from this, or any other amplifier right out of the box. I dont want to get a line conditioner to correct a problem with the amp to begin with. I want it to improve an already excellent performer. There was an advert in the box for an add-on A/C filter and remote power on box for an additional $199, I dont think so. I leaped before I looked on this one and its going back. (It doesnt even have a 12v input for remote turn on from another receiver, I should have checked into it first) Anyway, it didnt bring out any more musical detail in either the RF-3s or the RF-7, none whatsoever. I thought there may have been a slight, and I mean very slight, increase in authority to its presentation over the Sony. But after factoring in the human factor, I dismissed this as merely perception (Hey I know that big box has 200 watts and the little box has 110 watts, it must be more muscular, right?) I will upgrade to a better, cleaner, stronger amp to get the most out of my speaker upgrade. Maybe Ill go with 4 vertical RC-7s and 1 horizontal. After all I still have stands for the front bookshelfs. (you cant say that wouldnt be timbre matched huh) If anyone has any suggestions for amplifiers, Id love to hear them. Thanks

Currently, I'm A-B testing the RF-3s with the Flagship RF-7s and am having a sound problem. Musically, the 7s have it all over the 3s in the upper sound department. The cymbals are accurate and dissipate, or trail off, very gracefully. (On AC/DCs Hells Bells you can hear the complete tonal ringing of the bell as if you were actually there, very impressive) The vocals and midrange are simply out of the box and more natural than any previous speaker I've auditioned including Martin Logans. The trouble is in the bass punch. The RF-3s have a more articulate mid-bass thump that reaches out and grabs you, involving you more in the music emotionally. The RF-7s, with those 2 big ten inch gold hummers sitting there, just won't do it. The lack of low end presence and feel from the RF-7s is a disappointment. They are smooth enough but they don't attack when they need too like the RF-3s. My question is, while the Klipsch are very efficient, would a larger power amplifier to make these RF-7s rock and roll deeper than the RF-3s? Will the available power reserve allow the flagship puppies to breathe and place me in total audio nirvana? Or am I kidding myself and are the efficient Klipsch already singing the tune they were designed for and I just don't approve of the new bass approach? I'm using a Sony DB-930 receiver (110 watts per channel X5,discrete). I'm looking at adding the Outlaw 750 amplifier (165 X5) and using the Sony as the head unit. I'm thinking this could turn the RF-7s into my launching pad to the upper stratosphere of music reproduction. Will it? Two more things real quick. I know the Sony gets slammed when being paired with Klipsch. I've heard it all before but I don't agree. I tried the new Denon 4802 and it sucked in every way for a "high end" receiver as far as I was concerned. I prefer the sound shaping capability on the Sony versus the lame nasty sounding blah and trible control on the Denon. But thats another story for another day. Also the LFE with movies on the RF-7s sounded really deep as opposed to the low end on music. I have a KSW-15 which is turned off for my evaluation period. It handles the movies effects quite nicely. And yes, my speakers are set to "Large" on the receiver. Would the RF-5s be a good choice or a compromise? I haven't tried them yet, but they do have the 8 inch drivers (maybe for the kick I'm looking for) and the newer 8 inch square horn design. But will the smaller 1 inch horn driver provide the more open mids and refined highs of the RF-7s? Any help or opinions on my dilemma will be mucho appreciado. Thanks.