Sundevil

Just thought I'd provide an update. It appears that being patient has paid off. Was cruising the web today and stopped by the Emotiva website to see that they were having a sale. Decided that I wanted a proper foundation for whatever speakers I end up choosing and I picked up a UMC-1 and I treated myself a littl e bit and got an XPA-5 as well. Pretty happy that I was able to snag some good deals!

Hi everyone- I'm trying to decide on a Powercenter. I've looked at ACS, Panamax, and Monster options. I've even tried contacting a few of the customer service departments for help. So I figured I'd ask the experts here since I haven't gotten any substantial assistance after phone calls, forums searches, and googling. How do you select what size/model to buy? I don't want to take shortcuts but I also don't want to overbuy and have WAY more than I need. I've really honed in on the Panamax products, as I've used them in the past and had no issues with them. I'm looking to protect a 47 inch LCD, emotiva umc-1, emotiva upa-500, blu ray player, Xbox 360, directv hd dvr box, and then the rf82 pair and rc-62. I've tried to add up my total max wattage and I think it's roughly 3000 watts. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Sundevil

Alright, great. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated on my home theater build. I'm going to start ordering things in a couple of days. I'm just trying to figure out a final few things before I make my purchase.

Yeah, I'm sure the entry level harmon kardon receiver with no tuning is probably the culprit in the sound. I'm hoping when I get the UMC-1 and UPA-500 all hooked up the sound will be what I expected. I'll be sure to give them a call. I'd love to support a local brick and mortar store but their pricing just can't match online dealers. My local dealer had RF-62's for $50 under MSRP, which I thought was a fair price though. They were only willing to give me an 10% additional price break if I purchased an entire 5.1 system. They were telling me that if I got the towers, center, rears, and sub they'd throw in the center for free and give me 10% off the top of that. That's just more speakers than I planned on buying, haha. I'm still undecided about the 62's vs 82's. I know the 82 is more sound than I want right now, but it's just a minor change in price that I should just go forward with it for the long term investment.

Well based on the feedback, I'm betting that the receiver/amp was the main issue with the speakers. I've done a little more research and I've found where others experienced this at having a lesser amount of power to each speaker. I know the Reference series is a good product and realize that this was probably just a fluke that it wasn't sounding right at a lower volume. The feedback everyone has left also reassures me that this is the case. When I demo'd these they were not in a good setup position by any means. I'm sure the sound was bouncing all over the place. I'm slowly going to start piecing the system together over the next month or so. Does anyone have any experience with open box items from Acoustic Sound Design? It seems like in most cases the speakers were just taken out of the box to setup and then put back in the box. Buying things that way may help with my budget a bit. Thanks to everyone for their continued knowledge and feedback. It's really helped!

No worries, I re-read that first post and can see where I made it sound like it had to do with the harsh/bright sound. I thought it was really odd too though. I'm assuming based on your explanation that it was probably the recevier that was causing the issue in the store. However, like you mentioned, I'm hoping others can chime in on this issue I encountered to see if it's a common concensus that it was the receiver causing the problem. While I didn't nessecarily expect to have a lot of low's at a lower volume, I surely expected the mid's to be more pronounced than they were. Even the guy helping me was like "hmm...there's absolutly no mid's or low's right now". I will say though that the clarity of the high's was very impressive.

Alright, I appreciate the feedback. It's hard to pinpoint and explain exactly what was bothering me about the sound. At a reasonable TV watching audible level or even movies late at night, I completly lost any mid's and low's in the sound (I'd say this was around -32 to -34 volume) but the second it crossed over to -24ish volume it completely came alive. It's not that I can't tolerate the speakers being that loud because trust me I've had 2 12" ported subwoofers in my car for years now and I like listening to things louder than the average person. I'm more concerned with others not being able to tolerate the loud sound, whether that be my neighbors or even my guests. When I was at a reasonable level for the high's I had ZERO mid's and low's in the sound. The sound was completely flat and like I mentioned it reminded me of my HTIB Panasonic system that I used throughout college. I even compared it in the store to it sounding like the speakers were just pissed off that they wern't louder. You could almost hear that they were begging for a higher volume. I guess this really comes back to finding out if it was purely the setup in the store that was causing the loss of mid's and low's or if that's just what Klipsch is going to give me at what I deem a reasonable listening level.

so guys...I'm having a couple of issues. I went to my local authorized retailer today and worked with a guy that was incredibly knowledgeable about the products. I listened to the 52's, 62's, and 82's and decided that the best option for me is the 62's. I just couldnt notice much of a major difference between the 62's and 82's to justify the price increase and honestly only when I was further away from the speakers (well beyond my distance from couch to speakers) I could tolerate them. However, this is where the problem starts. These speakers sound FANTASTIC at anything under -26 or so. However, at what I deem a reasonable listening level, something over -30 the mid's and low's are completely gone. It honestly sounded like a HTIB system, even the sales guy was shocked because he said he really only demo'd them for people at their higher volume. With my current living situation, playing it at -26 or lower really just isnt an option for me on a regular basis. On another note, I was wondering if the speakers were just losing the mid's and low's because they wern't getting enough power to them. They had recently sold their floor model Marantz receiver and they were powering these using an entry level Harmon Kardon receiver (I think he said they were pushing 50W to the towers). Is this why I'm not getting any mid's and low's at what I deem a reasonable listening level? Only when I added a sub to the system in the store did I gain back some of the mid's and low's at the -30 level, however I could hear the rattle and I know that's not something I can have in my current living situation (next 2+ years). I was really impressed with the product, I'm just a bit concerned that I'm buying large paperweights if I can't get any mid's and low's at a reasonable listening level. Thanks as always! Sundevil

Alright, I'm assuming that's just all based on how you set them up?

I apologize for my delayed response. I've been out of town the past week or so and I've just gotten around to replying to things. I'll be sure to check out different options for my speaker wire and HDMI cords. I really like the Monoprice HDMI's that release on 7/30. Do you have any suggestions on sound proofing? I just checked out my townhouse for the first time this past week and I'm a bit concerned that I may be "that neighbor" with my proposed setup. Are the low's in the 82's going to bother my neighbors? I don't know exactly what type of blocking they have between the walls but I never heard anything other than people going up and down steps when I was there. Thanks again!

Thanks! I'll be sure to search around Monoprice for my cords. I really like that RCA cord, it will look fantastic! Once again, thanks for the really insightful and lengthy response explaining everything. I'm going to slowly piece this all together over the next month or so while I'm in transition between moving my things from Arizona to Ohio. However, I figure with things like cords and the Emotiva products I can go ahead and place my orders sooner because of the inflexibility in the pricing for the most part. Going to shop around on quotes for speakers at different places and see what type of deal I can get. As the system is priced right now, cords excluded, it's $2841 if I was going to buy the speakers directly from the Klipsch website (which I wont), the UMC-1 and UPA-500 from Emotiva online, and the Monster Power Supply off of Amazon (which is a suprisingly good deal in my opinion at $193). I'm hoping to be able to get that down around $2600-2650 by getting some deals on the RF-82's and the RC-62, if possibly even lower than that. I suppose it just depends on what type of deals I can find. Thanks Again, Sundevil I'm still trying to decide about in-wall routing of my wires. I've got a rental agreement on a townhouse for the next 2 years and I'd like to avoid having to patch the walls at a later date if at all possible. They don't have any touch up paint or color code for it at the leasing office for some reason so anything I patch is going to be a trial and error experiment.

Thanks for the advice on that. I'm gonna start looking out for some deals on the UMC-1 and the UPA-500. However, I'm comfortable within my budget to buy them new if I don't end up finding a good deal. There's a "mint" UMC-1 on Ebay right now for $350, however buying it new and selling my upgrade card brings me to about the same cost and in that case I'd prefer to just buy new from the manufacturer. I'm really happy with everything I've read on the Emotiva stuff. I guess one of my final questions before I start pieceing this all together is what do I need in terms of connection cables. I'm only framiliar with standard speaker wire that comes in the HTIB kits. I have friends that are into home audio and they've already pointed me in the direction of banana plugs. Outside of HDMI cords, what other connections do I need? I was looking at the amplifier and noticed it would do fine with standard banana plugs but what goes from the amplifier to the receiver? Is there a specific gauge that I should be using for my speaker wire? Are all brands fairly similar? I know a lot about the whole HDMI myth and that as long as it's gold plated it essentially does the same thing, but if I'm investing this amount of money into a speaker system I want to make sure they are hooked up with the proper cords to ensure I'm getting the most out of my speakers. Thanks, Sundevil

First off, as always THANKS SO MUCH for the wealth of knowledge you are providing me. Weather was beautiful during graduation! It was a really great time. I'm sad that it's come to an end, but I'm sure I'll get oppertunities to go back and visit ASU from time to time through recruiting undergraduates for my work. Like Tmassey suggested, I think I'm going to go with the UPA-500 for now and then if I feel I need to get something bigger to power the 82's I can always go with an XPA-2 or another brand to power the towers. While I've stated that I'd like to stay between $2500-$3000, I do have the capability if needed to spend more to get exactly what I want. My only problem with that is I'm eventually going to want to upgrade from an LCD to an LED tv and I'm trying to start saving a little bit of money for that. But I will agree, budgets do suck. I'm most interested in seeing what type of deal I'm able to get from a retailer on the actual cost for the speakers. From my research it doesn't look like I can buy Emotiva anywhere else so I'm guessing I'm stuck with their pricing on their website for the amp and receiver. The price I'm able to get may dictate if I'm willing to stretch the budget a little bit or not. Thanks again, Sundevil

I really like your point about using the UPA-500 for now and then if the 82's need more power I can go to the XPA-2 and use the UPA-500 for everything else. It really does help out my budget a little bit because I'll be able to get a good solid foundation without having to spend what it costs to get a bigger amplifier. Is the only place to find these on the Emotiva website? I started searching around and I couldnt find any other retailer for them. Thanks, Sundevil

I haven't talked to any dealer's yet but I'll be sure to check with everyone here when I get some pricing to make sure that it's a relatively good deal before making my purchase. I got my parents to lend me their Def Tech rear's yesterday that were in a box in their basement since they don't have them setup. So I have some rears in the meantime to tide me over until I can afford some myself.

LOL You're quite welcome but I only wrote a couple of sentences where as SubXero wrote an editorial. I think he deserves much more praise than me........great input dude! Couldn't agree more. It was a fantastic write-up. I'm still trying to process all of the information so I completely understand all the parameters I need to make sure I satisfy with the Amplifier and Power Supply. Big shoutout to SubXero for the lengthy and VERY educational posts. They've really helped me understand the home theater process a lot more!

He'll pretty much give you his best deal but it never hurts to ask if he can knock off a few more bucks to meet your budget. Keep in mind also that he will be quoting a delivered price without sales tax as well. Great! With my proposed system changing constantly by the day, I'm going to need to find some savings anyway I can! Thanks!

Thanks again for all of the knowledge, I really enjoy getting to learn about the different aspects of what I should be looking for when piecing together my system. To answer your question, yes I went to ASU and just graduated a month ago. Glad to have run into a fellow Sundevil that can provide some assitance in my quest to get my first real home theater system. I'm starting to repiece my system together a bit more and I really appreciate all of the feedback I've received. It's completely changed my plan for how I'm going to construct this system. I'm going to go ahead and go with a 3.1 system to start for sure, I'm usually pretty picky when it comes to things matching but as long as it's fairly close I'm sure I'll be able to live with it. My changed build to this point (still plenty of research left to do before my actual purchase) would be to run... Fronts: RF-82 II's (I feel that the small price point between the 62 and 82's warrants that I spend the extra cost for the 82's) Center: RC- 62 II (I'd really like to spring for the RC-64 II but at a "new" price it would be well out of my budget) Receiver: Emotiva UMC-1 Amplifier: Emotiva UPA-500 (I'm certainly going to do some research on the issue you mentioned or consider looking in other places for a more reliable amplifier like you suggested. I'm still a bit lost on calculating how much power I need to have put out by the amplifier to be "above" the max limit like you mentioned in your post) Power Supply: Monster HDP 2500 or another alternative, I know as a reference my parents have been using a Panamax for the better part of 10 years now and it's still humming along from what I can tell (I'm still a bit confused on what I need to look for when I'm selecting how big I need my power supply to be, is it just adding all the Watt peaks together for all the components I'd be running?). Thanks for all the help and support from everyone that's commented so far! I really appreciate the help and it's really helping me piece together a better system overall. Sundevil

Just so I understand since the naming of their equipment is not something I'm framiliar with, the UMC-1 is like a standard receiver and the the UPA-500 is an amplifier. So I'd want both of them together? I'm going to go to an authorized dealer later this week to check everything out. I'm a little worried that I might walk out of there and want the biggest baddest thing they have, haha! I visit my parents fairly often and they have the Definitive Technology BP700SC's which I realize nothing I can afford can compare to. Thanks for the help! Like Beechnut said, you have to CALL Mike at acoustic sound design. Don't "add to cart" and place order online or you will pay wayyyy too much. We're both speaking from experience. Thanks! I'll be sure to call them when I'm ready to make a purchase. Anything specific I need to let them know to get the "good price? :-) Thanks for the fantastic response! This really helped me hone in on the types of things I need to be considering on this purchase. I'm living in a townhouse and I really didn't ever consider the noise bothering my neighbors so I think it's safe to say that I'm 100% set on building a solid 3.1 system to start and then adding on the rears down the road a little bit and then a sub when I'm finally out of community living. I'll be sure to check out APC power systems and see what they have to offer. I've been able to find a few good deals on the Monster systems but I'm not sure what size or wattage output I should be looking for. I'm continuing to do some research to make sure I fully understand the options available for the power centers. I've never been framiliarized with an amplifier before. Is there a specific model that I should be looking at getting. I know above it was suggested by tmassey that I look at the UPA-500, I must say I really like the looks of it but I don't nessecarily understand the technical aspects of it. Is there anything specific I should know about an amplifier? I understand the basics of how it works and so forth. I like the look and specifications on the Emotiva UMC-1 that tmassey suggested. Is that something you'd also suggest? I'd like to get the opinions of multiple people so I can look at all the equipment from every angle before I make my purchase. Once again, I appreciate the lengthy and VERY helpful response. I'm somewhat of a noob to this, which is a shocker since most things electronics I consider myself to be an expert in (mainly PC builds). I want to absorb as much knowledge as I can about what type of system I should be looking at for my entry level system. Thanks, Sundevil

Thanks for the help! I stumbled across acousticssounddesign.com a couple weeks ago and I was planning to order through them when I decide to make the purchase here relatively soon. I do like the idea of building a system the same way you mentioned. I initially thought about doing a 3.1 system since I've never had a good sub or rears, I figure a solid 3.1 will blow my mind on it's own to begin with. As for the questions... Budget? I'm looking to spend no more than $3000, however my comfort zone is more about the $2500 mark. Location? I've just recently relocated to the Athens/Southeast portion of Ohio. Craigslist? I've been actively watching craigslist for some deals the past few weeks and there's occassionally some good finds on there, however I am an uber novice when it comes to home theater systems and I don't know what to be looking for when searching the used market in terms of how people have treated their equipment. Even if there's no cosmetic damage, I dont know what sounds a speaker would make that would indicate it's on a declining path. Listening Preference? I would say on average I'm at about 40% Movies, 40% TV, and 20% Music. I'd like to get into watching more movies though as I've just picked up a blu-ray player recently and I'm already in love with the quality improvement over a standard DVD. Thanks again! Sundevil

Thanks! Got it fixed now, appreciate the help!

Hi Everyone- First off, I want to apologize if this is not the proper place to post this thread. I searched through the forums and this seemed to be like the right spot for this question. I'm new to the home theater game, I've previously owned a few HTIB Panasonic systems and now that I've finished college, found myself a good job, and am starting my "life" per-say, I wanted to make a purchase that is going to last me a while. Here is what I have in mind, please feel free to critique anything as I don't have many reasons (other than the ones listed) for my selections... Fronts: Klipsch RF-52 II Towers Middle: Klipsch RC-62 II Center (my reasoning is simply based on the fact that I like hearing the dialogue and figured that a more powerful center channel would accomplish this, however if not please advice) Rears: Klipsch RS-52 II Surround Speakers or RS-42 II (I've never had surround speakers hooked up before so I'm not sure what to go with here) Subwoofer: Klipsch RW-12d Reciever: Onkyo TN-NR414 5.1 Channel (I like the built in features that Onkyo provides and I've read nothing but positive reviews on this receiver. I would opt for a 7.1 receiver but I've already determined that this will always be a family room sound system and I dont think it'll ever be practical for it to be 7.1) Power: Monster HDP-1800 8-Outlet Power Center Thanks in advanced for any critiques or comments. Cheers, Sundevil