Clipped and Shorn

regarding: "To each, their own hell?" mdeneen, nice graphics on your overlapping booleans, and I guess those three large areas would also take into consideration the relativity of perception and psychological hallucination etc. in that politics, religion, and science all must at some point deal with perception and the mysteries of how cognitive gestalts are actually formed. Its all in our head. no? Any way, great color choices. -Kalif and Shah

Quote: Cajoled and Sweated - I think as long as the copper pipes are made of long-grain, oxygen-free, free-range copper you'll be OK. Just be sure those joints are snug or you'll lose SPLs when you crank up the pressure!! Response: I am trying to get a handle on the concept of "free range copper" and I have tried two different experiments, one, having a local policeman include my listening room on his beat, and two, making my listening room open to the chickens in the yard so they can get more long-grain copper in their diet as well as the added protein of dust mites. Unfortunately the free range-copper got pissed when the free ranging chickens messed up his otherwise nice shoes. It did seem to enhance the Spike Jones vinyl I was listening to both in the highs and the bass. I think fini has the right idea about braiding the 3/4" copper tubing, although I do believe I can braid the 3/4" copper pipe with a pipe bender. -illicit and porn

Gee, I was thinking, if I am going to go to Home Depot, why don't I run 3/4" copper pipes to the speakers. I could get those insulation tubes to put around the pipes and plumb it with with "sweat fitted" elbows and everything. There is also flexible copper tubing....hmmmm the possibilities.... -kippered and salted

Quote: Don't do it, Ripped and Torn, just go to Home Depot and buy some 12 gauge wire. 'It's the BEST!' I better stop. THANX! Mike, Are you talking about solid or multi-strand wire? Didn't I hear someone talking about using Romex? -Ripe Tornado

Quote: How long will your runs be? I would try to keep the speaker wire as short as possible. I have 8ft runs of this wire and it has done fine. It bettered the CAT5 and Radio Shack 18AWG solid core experiments I was using. It is EXTREMELY open sounding and very detailed. kh, The runs can be fairly short, about 6 to 7 feet, certainly no more than 8'. btw, is there much individual variation among Cornwall speakers, that is, do most pairs you have heard sound approximately the same. I did hear the pair sold from Berkeley, and I am hoping the pair I am getting from Arizona are as good or better sounding. On another subject: What about speaker switching units that allow one to hook up speakers throughout the house and even play all of them at the same time. I wouldn't be doing this with the tube amp, but rather for everyday use with the big Carver solid state receiver which has a mess of watts. For this more utilitarian purpose I will not be as concerned about special cables since some of the runs are comparatively long. I've got some kind of speakers in just about every room in the house. -Glib and Corn

Hey fini, I have heard about your altered LP covers (mostly in France where guys on the street whisper to you and pull you aside). I can't wait until you get a scanner and challenge the freedom of the intenet! -Klystron and Schnokered PS: Nancy and Sluggo say hello.

First off, thanks to mobilehomless for the technical link info explaining the physics pertaining to speaker cables. The physics definitely makes sense to me. I think the debate is not about the reality of the physics but merely whether a particular individual can hear the differences in their specific configurations of gear and space etc. I once was doing some electrical wiring on a barn and happen to notice that a couple of feet of wire scrap lying on the ground connected to nothing had measurable current running through it. I was momentarily mystified until I realized that right on the other side of the wood wall of the barn was a line carrying power and that this single loop of unconnected wire lying on the other side was picking up current through the nearby wall due to the very real phenomenon of inductance. Back in my childhood ham radio days I would "tune" the transmittler antenna with a device made out of a loop of wire connected to a flashlight bulb that a buddy would hold near the antenna wire while I was at the transmitter turning the knobs, when the bulb was brightest and he yelled, the antenna was optimumally tuned. Inductance is very real! Compared to audio signals, most uses of electrical energy carried through wire like motors, lights, and other appliances could care less about the deviations that would be otherwise critical. As indicated in the posted article and links, Inductance is also not the only contributing culprit. I found the following link which was of interest, anyone here have experience with this?: http://www.geocities.com/venhaus1/diycatfivecables.html Also does anyone know offhand whether the old Dynakit-70 tube amps are particulary susceptible to the higher capacitance of this cable design, a caution suggested in the article about these cables. I happen to have a big box of Cat 3 AWG 24 lying around and am thinking of doing some serious braiding. I even tracked down one of the special long nose pliers with the built-in skinning hole that I saw the phone man use, perfect for stripping those tiny 24 gauge wires. In the interest of sharing: http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/71980.html The Cornwalls should be arriving this week and I better start clearing a path in the otherwise cluttered pad. Nothing like a seductive visitor to spur on housecleaning activities. I'll keep you posted. -Clicked and Sprung

Andy, I have consequently discovered what you said about the great cable debate by checking out that other thread. I see what you mean. If I wanted to experiment with cables where would I even begin? Is there some way to deduce which type or brand of cable might enhance a particular system? At what point in upgrading does one begin to be concerned with cable? Presently, when I get my Cornwalls, I will try them out with my existing gear which is humble but not exactly the lowest of the low end. I will be shuffling systems around since I have several entirely different spaces or studios where I listen to music, one being the main house. I currently have an NAD AV-713 receiver, a Carver 6250 receiver, and an old workhorse tube amp, a Dynakit-70 which is in perfect condition. As I get more into this I will consider upgrading to another tube amp etc. When someone decides to upgrade speaker cable, how does one go about deciding which way to go, or is it always just trial and error? How does distance, eg. wire length, effect the situation, aside from the shear per/foot expense of the cable. Is there a recommended maximum distance for optimum results? I haven't joined a particular camp as regards to this issue, and I am open to whatever works. -Lipped and Horny

I just bought the expensive extra 3 year warranty plan and my system sounds noticeably improved, I think it is the archival paper that it is printed on. I just hooked up my desk lamp with monster cable and the light is smoother and my eyes do not get as tired from reading. Even the reading material seems improved. Long words pop out and short words are more vivid. All kidding aside, are there some physical explanations for the advantages of special speaker cables? I thought electrons were electrons and copper was copper and as long as you have the correct size wire for the general load you would be fine. I would think the terminals, jacks, and connection points would be the more critical factors in the equation. I was a physics major for a few years until the 60s came along if you know what I mean, so hopefully I would understand the subtlties of the potential explanation. Give it a try. -mwo

I was looking over the stuff on mobilehomeless' web pages. I have a feeling that the Cornwalls I got are just the beginning of my upgrades. BTW, can someone explain the physics behind the need for special speaker cables. I thought electrons were electrons and copper was copper. -Kippered and Snoring

1978...a good year. All your drivers, as well as the Type B crossover, are good and sought after. This is actually why those beasts went so high. Most buy the damn things with a big question mark regarding the contents. Your Cornwalls are surely no mystery. What are you running them with? kh ------------------ Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Reply: I have a dynakit 70 and Hafler solid state pre-amp on hand. Also a Carver 6250 Receiver for everyday use. After reading about your Monoblocks, I find those very intriguing. Did you assemble them yourself? They look so cool.They seem to priced in a relatively accessible range. You use them in triode mode, correct? How do the Cornwalls do with 3 1/2 watts per? I was reading about those musical overtones, must be a noticeable difference. It is fun to finally be learning about this. -KleptoScorn Do you also use a tube preamp?

Andy, The surreal cereal #s were actually posted on the auction site. Grrrrrrrreat! They are: 17S717 and 17S718. What does this tell? At least they are consecutive, that must be good, like a matched pair of output tubes, right? Are the S's earlier than the T's? -Klopped 'n Shoehorn

mobile homeless stated: In all actuality, in my opinion, the damn vintage Cornwalls are worth every bit of $2000 judging on sonics alone. It's just a shock that others are finally realizing it. Of course, where that puts the other vintage Klipsch in the price scheme is a bit tricky... But for sonics, and just speaking of the Cornwall alone, $1850 couldnt buy you a more life-like speaker in 2002. I see that RF-7s sell at the local Good Guys for $2200 a pair. How would these compare to the vintage Cornwalls? Are they still using horns in their designs? The K-horns retail here for $5k and once ordered there is no going back. But that is moot since I have no corners to put them in anyway. Am I correct in assuming that current 2002 retail dollars cannot possibly buy as much substance ultimately as an investment in the carefulness and quality of a recently bygone era? -Klipped and Schorn

bigbusa, thanks for the offer. Now that I am reading this forum I may learn some things about speakers I don't even know about yet. Also, I may want to dollar-cost-average on my next purchas to balance what apparently may have been an extravagant first outing into the klipschwelt. Then again, the matchingness of yours could be tempting. -Shipped and Cloned

There were a total of 18 bidders in just that one auction. Six different bidders were $1200 or over. The ones offered from Riverside CA closed under $1000, but that seller offered no clue as to the cost of shipping, offered no images, and did not respond to any of my email questions. Like someone here stated, the AZ auction was a text book for how to do it. It worked for (on) me. When I get them and hook them up I let you know how I like them. -Clipped and Shorn {baaaah....ah...ah...}

Here is the complete bidding history on the Cornwalls that are on their way to my house as we speak: -Clipped and Shorn $1,850.00 Jan-11-02 19:05:37 PST $1,825.00 Jan-11-02 18:22:44 PST $1,700.00 Jan-11-02 15:28:24 PST $1,625.00 Jan-11-02 14:46:56 PST $1,600.00 Jan-11-02 15:27:37 PST $1,500.00 Jan-11-02 15:26:36 PST $1,330.00 Jan-11-02 13:04:38 PST $1,230.00 Jan-11-02 08:53:48 PST $1,200.00 Jan-06-02 11:49:29 PST $1,200.00 Jan-10-02 16:11:19 PST $1,100.00 Jan-08-02 05:12:05 PST $1,000.00 Jan-04-02 17:41:07 PST $1,000.00 Jan-06-02 10:08:01 PST $920.00 Jan-06-02 10:06:58 PST $900.00 Jan-06-02 08:50:50 PST $850.00 Jan-05-02 18:09:18 PST $800.00 Jan-03-02 17:16:09 PST $800.00 Jan-05-02 18:06:03 PST $750.00 Jan-05-02 18:05:47 PST $700.00 Jan-02-02 17:25:38 PST $700.00 Jan-03-02 17:15:50 PST $600.00 Jan-02-02 13:44:39 PST $600.00 Jan-02-02 17:24:58 PST $400.00 Jan-02-02 05:40:52 PST $287.00 Jan-02-02 11:52:02 PST $276.00 Jan-02-02 08:30:59 PST $250.00 Jan-02-02 08:30:33 PST $230.00 Jan-02-02 06:24:09 PST $200.00 Jan-02-02 05:28:32 PST $167.45 Jan-01-02 20:52:43 PST $100.00 Jan-02-02 02:45:49 PST $50.00 Jan-02-02 02:00:00 PST

Andy stated: "That guy will certainly recover from the expense of his lovely Cornwalls LONG before he gets tired of them." My sentiments exactly. I am the guy, and here is the story: A friend recently informed me about the beautiful Cornwalls for sale in Berkeley, California, eg. close enough so I could pick them up myself. By the time I found out about them , however, these babies which had sat on the floor in the shop at $800 were now on eBay with a "buy it now" for $1200. I am sure you all remember them about a week ago. After some research in the "completed auctions" section of eBay I discovered that someone had recently purchased a similarly clean pair offered down in Florida by excercising the "buy it now" option for $1200. I was all set to plunk down the $1200 "buy it now" for the Berkeley pair, but my friend (who got his for $600 privately a while back) informed me that Cornwalls come up frequently on eBay and that $800 was the good price AND I should maybe hear them first! Weather conditions prevented me from getting down to Berkeley to hear that pair before the "reserve" was met on eBay, at which point making the "buy it now" option no longer available. I believe the reserve had only been the same $800 they were trying to get on the floor of the shop. I was able to go down to the shop and hear the Cornwalls with a handful of my favorite CDs (correctly assuming they would not be set up to demo with vinyl), and I would still be able to race home (an hour away) and still slam down a "sniper" bid at the last minute, assuming I liked them which I did indeed. They were way better than anything else in the shop, not that there was all that much to compare them to. While in the shop, another prospective local bidder came in with his handful of CDs and he and his wife had big smiles when they heard the sounds and looked rather determined that they would be getting them. We had friendly conversation, but I didn't really mention in so many words that I was a competitor. We knew some of the same people, and he was a nice enough guy. After returning home in time for the bidding I did have second thoughts about the competition now that I had met the person I would be bidding against and he knew who I was and could probably deduce that I was the competitor. But such is life and that wasn't really going to stop me. As you remember the bidding kept creeping up from the $800 and was fast approaching the "buy it now" price of $1200 (plus 8=% tax but no shipping since I could pick them up). I knew I should have plunked down the "buy it now" earlier, but now it was way too late for that, and I know from past eBay experience that more often than not with highly desirable items the "buy it now" price can be the best deal in the long run. But alas, where does regret get you. So I prepared to slam down my sniper bid, now realizing I would have to way exceed this "buy it now" $1200 price in order to be competitive, but how much more than $1200??? At least now I knew for sure that I like the sound of the Cornwalls I had heard. As the adrenalin pumped and I watched the highly accurate digital clock on the desk I got ready to slam down the last minute no-going-back sniper bid which was somewhat over the $1200 mark. Shaky hands and pumping adrenalin is not conducive to calm and cool operations, and to make a short story longer, I ended up mis-spelling my own damn password! Washout! No Cigar! I had a boatload of ready rationalizations. The other guy who won was indeed the guy I met in the store, so I am glad he got them. Also now I would have time to research the alternatives to Cornwalls before bidding on the Arizona pair with the $70 shipping (no tax) and only faceless competitors. So now I start doing online searches for what-the-hell other speakers are out there besides Cornwalls that would give me as much bang for the buck. This was not so easy and many of the alternatives I see you discussing or mentioning in this forum now I did not come across in my internet searches then. I only found exotic high-end speakers for much bigger prices. Admittedly I became hasty and I would be the first to admit I am not well informed about the subject, I just wanted to get some good speakers and move on to other things like listening to and making music. I started to get the impression that the Cornwalls filled a niche which was difficult or impossible to cover with more readily available items. I am an old-timer and I tend to have some of that "the older stuff is better" syndrome. I got obsessed with the Cornwalls and was determined to get the pair from Arizona, figuring all I had to do is outbid by a couple of dollars whatever anyone else felt they were worth. That is the concept of "sniping" which, if you haven't noticed is DANGEROUS to the pocket book. eBay has been a great source for finding obscure and rare recordings, but now that other collectors are hip to it there has been an enormous escalation of prices. It is without a doubt a sellers market. eBay is determining a new set of prices for things, especially if they are collectible or otherwise "scarce" in some sense. Since I had already seen this process in the two or more years I have been using eBay, I started to realize that there was a different kind of valuation as the result of such a global marketplace. Rare recordings (vinyl) you could buy for $35 are now selling for $200. I had to totally give up this as a source of records, besides I already have plenty (10k) to listen to. Within about a week or so I had watched the value of $800 Cornwalls go quickly and most assuredly to $1200 and I also knew that this would not be the end of the line. If you look at the bidders I beat, you will see that I only outbid the next highest bidder by a few dollars. I had decided that if it was worth that to him, it was worth a couple more dollars to me. At this point, looking into the bidding histories of several past Cornwall auctions,you will see now that there are quite a few bidders willing to go higher than $1200 for a convincingly clean pair. The Arizonal seller did a great job of display and promotion and inspired much confidence by his past history and his email communications. So maybe I did not get the super bargain this time, but I can make up the difference from all the other super bargains I have indeed acquired in areas more to my expertise. All I have to do is unload some other bargains as an eBay seller now and I am cool again. eBay giveth and eBay taketh away. It is either an eBay heartbreak or eBay heart attack. The heartattack cost you more, but at least you get your goodies. The one's that got away are totally boring stories. I am sure the Cornwalls will sound wonderful with my little Dynakit 70 tube amp and Hafler pre amp, and/or with a large Carver receiver I am currently using along with a modified Technics SL-1200 MK2 turntable from KAB electronics. Am I at least in the club now? Thanks, -Clipped and Shorn PS, hey fini, now you know the rest of the story.