ODS123

As an aside, I'm enjoying day 388 of water-damage and corner-dent free bliss with my MDF Cornwall III's. Fingers crossed.

If you can listen for hours with "0" listener fatigue then you may be missing something from the original performance because an accurate system WILL eventually cause listening fatigue That is, if the goal of a system is to recreate the live performance. Live music, even when played by the best musicians, WILL eventually cause listening fatigue if listened to loud enough and long enough. Woodwinds, trumpets/cornets, flutes, even violins If listened to long enough will begin to grate. This is partly why I long ago insisted on tone controls. After 3 or 4 hours of listening, a 1/4 counter clockwise turn of the treble control will allow me to continue on. Remember, our hearing did not evolve to endure endless loud noises such as that we encounter during concerts. ..Apart from a loud waterfall and maybe crashing waves, our hearing is not prepared for continual loud music, even orchestral music.

If he's promulgating the myth of cable break-in (seriously?) and amp break-in (not mentioned in the owner's manual, but he's said it elsewhere) it becomes hard to know whether or not to take seriously his remarks about Speaker break-in. ..No, I probably wouldn't tell him I distrust him on these counts. ..He's cranky. I loved my 3A sigs, but I never bought into his claims about time coherence/ alignment, etc. ...I listened extensively to them and liked them enough to buy them. ..I sold them b/c they aren't meant for the kind of SPLs necessary for home theater. I now need my floor-standers to perform double-duty: 2-channel for music, L/R front for HT.

I didn't say there are no linear SET amps. McIntosh SET amps are very linear. As I mentioned earlier, a previous employee at McIntosh said it was common knowledge (though not openly admitted) that NO ONE there was able to reliably able to distinguish their SET amps from their S/S amps. ..Now that is a well engineered SET amp! So, if an SET integrated amp IS linear, and therefore sounds like a S/S amp, why chose it over a S/S amp? Moreover, I also require tone controls, a mono switch and input leveling. Which SET integrated amp even offers this?? McIntosh has SET pre-amps that offer this but not integrated. Also, I most certainly DO listen to my music very loudly at times. But even then, my wattage meters never crest 20 watts. But when I do listen at quiet levels I expect my integrated or pre-amp to maintain volume balance all the way to full attenuation. My PeachTree Nova plus my Bryston and B&K pre/amp combos failed to do this. I already said I'd LOVE to have a (newer iteration) MC275. But not because I think it will sound different but b/c I love the history of it, the look, etc... But not until kids are out of school.

Keep reading… He also talks about cable break in in the manual.

I think my reasons for choosing my amp have been covered, but if not. Here's my review of my amp on Audioasylum. Hifi Heretic is my name there. https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/amp/180899/review-mcintosh-ma6600-integrated-amplifier-ss

I did w/ my last three speaker purchases: Vandersteen 3A Sigs (3 way floor-stander); Paradigm S8 v2s (3-way floor stander); and my Klipsch Cornwall III's. In each case I let one play through the night than came down the next am to compare. ..No, not one iota of difference. And not to antagonize but all of your explanations as to WHY break-in might occur doesn't really enter into what I'm suggesting. A beginner can just ignore all of that and just try it. In fact, reading an explanation such as yours or something they may read in an owners manual might have the effect of predisposing them to expectation bias. I personally believe break-in is a myth perpetuated by some manufacturers as a way of discouraging product returns. 250 hours of breakin?

I'd say now swap the left/ right leads just to make sure you're not hearing a channel imbalance - ie., one plays louder than the other. ..Other than that, what's there to say? So they hear a difference. At least they can make the claim after having applied an iota of scientific rigor. And an "iota" is about all that it would be because there's still plenty of opportunity for bias to intrude. But at least it's a comparison made w/ levels matched AND made quickly.

A few months ago I saw a nephew for the first time in a year and noticed immediately how much his voice had changed. ..I made a comment to his mom and she said, "Really? I haven't noticed."

Beginners: A few other audiophile notions you can easily test: Speaker break-in. Once you buy your speakers set both right beside each other. Hook one up and let it play all night. Next day, hook the other up and now switch between the two using a mono recording and the balance control. Hear one iota of difference? Perhaps not all golden-ears, but many will tell you that speakers will sound dramatically different after break-in. Interconnect/ Speaker cables: Again, put both speakers right beside each other. Hook fancy/ expensive cable to one channel, hook generic/ inexpensive cable to the other. Again, using a mono song and your balance control switch back and forth. Again, do you hear one iota of difference?

Please leave politics out of this thread - that is, of course, unless you're trying to get it locked down.

Certainly a lot of ground has been covered. ..Maybe I'll take a break from posting here for the night and instead retire to some Richard Thompson or Nina Simone. It's kind of a special night. ...My MDF Cornwall IIIs and I are celebrating 387 days together without water-damage or corner dents. Phew.. It hasn't been easy resisting the temptation to take them out in the rain or carry them up 2 flights of stairs.. Fingers crossed for another 387.

Buying something just to use in a blinded test w/ my family knowing I'll be returning it afterward makes me uncomfortable. So I'll either agon it or give it to my son.

No, I didn't say return it. I said audiogon it. Buying something knowing I would be returning to the seller strikes me as a bit unethical. ...And it occurred to me that my son might want to use it at school. ..Wouldn't want to spend a ton on something apt to be abused. Is there a problem w/ wanting a balance control. ..Is that apt to kink the comparison?

Whatever I buy may end up w/ one of my sons. The Dayton doesn't have a balance control and one of the users complained of a volume imbalance until the knob was 12 0'clock. ..Can't abide that. So i may go with a Sony receiver or AVR. Can anyone suggest a specific model - one they've heard and can attest is simply awful sounding?? ..Preferably w/ Klipsch?

I'm not sure I understand Jason. I'd consider buying ONE amp/receiver/ AVR to compare w/ my McIntosh MA6600. Can you suggest a model number?

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not mad. ...😀 see?!

I mean something currently available . Again, a present day S/S amp, stereo receiver, or AVR renowned for sounding horrendous.

The AudioSource AMP100? ..No, not something I own that you haven't heard. Please recommend something you (or another gold-ear in the thread) has heard w/ Klipsch speakers that was so bad, so awful, so offensive, that you would call it ear-shredding? ..What? Pyle? Crown? Behringer? Onkyo? Pioneer? Please.... Even an AVR would be fine. I'm sure Best Buy sells a handful of such components . If not, then I'll get it online from Sweetwater or B&H, etc..

No, it's not unreasonable. ..Just two posts above yours Deang claimed to know of an amp SO BAD that is Shreds ears when paired with Klipsch speakers.. That sounds like a pretty easy amp to pick from a group, no?

Again, make and model please!! I'm dying to know. ..If not too expensive, I'll buy it and will play it for my family and friends and see if any complain of SES (Shreded Ear Syndrome)

Dean just said he knows of an amp so bad it will shred your hearing!! ..I can't see how it would be hard to pick such an amp from a good amp 100 straight times, let alone 2 sets of 12. Anyway, from the RC $10k Amp Challenge wiki Q&A:: Is two sets of 12 correct responses a stringent requirement? Yes. Richard Clark intentionally made the requirements strict because with thousands of people taking the test, even random guessing would eventually cause someone to pass the test if the bar was set low. Since he is offering his own $10,000 to anyone who will pass the test, he wants to protect against the possibility of losing it to random guessing. However, if the listener is willing to put up their own money for the test as a bet, he will lower the requirements from 12 correct down to as low as 6 correct. Richard Clark has said “22 out of 24 would be statistically significant. In fact it would prove that the results were audible. Any AVERAGE score more than 65% would do so. But no one has even done that”.”

Shred your hearing? Really? ..Please tell me the make and model of an amp or CD player that is so horrendous that it will "absolutely shred my hearing." I'm dying to see it's specifications. I have a little bit of disposable money these days, I might actually buy this amp and see how it sounds with my Cornwalls. Even if my room and setup will soften some of it's "shreddiness" (as you did say setup is a factor) I'm sure it will still sound much much poorer than my Mac, my Onkyo AVR or my $130 AudioSource Amp100, right?? I mean you did say "shred" so it should be plainly obvious. If only for my edification, I would be happy to spend a few hundred bucks on a modern amplifier which is SO nasty that even a hardened skeptic such as my self can hear the difference. I'd treat it w/ kid gloves and would sell it on agon when I'm through being disappointed w/ its sound. Make, and model please.

Still hoping someone can answer this for me. For example, who would this be at McIntosh? Of relevance to this, someone from another forum who used to work at McIntosh told me that no one at McIntosh Labs is able to reliably distinguish their current S/S gear from their current Tube gear. So how/ where does their house sound come from?

I'm not sure what they take away is with this. Yes, this is true. But don't you think the 1000+ people who failed in Richard Clarks $10k challenge were just as confident in their hearing as you?