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ODS123

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About ODS123

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    McIntosh MA6600 Integrated; Emotiva DAC; Mac Mini; Technics SL-1210GR; Klipsch Cornwall III

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  1. And I love the old school equalizer and receiver too! ..Today's no-frills approach to Audio of no tone controls, no balance control, no stereo/mono switch takes audio backwards, imho. These features, if sensibly implemented, make listening to music soooo much more enjoyable. ..And fun too. Love your system.
  2. And what I am saying is since it lacked "such rigor" people should not be overly surprised and overly influenced by peoples' glowing account of how how much better the v. IV sounded. Again, and for the reasons I've mentioned >1, I think such a glowing reaction was predictable. I DO look forward to hearing the v IV. Meanwhile, I'm quite reminded of when Paradigm introduced it’s new Beryllium tweeter in it’s signature series, the buzz was “OMG, the Ber. Tweeter BLOWS the titanium tweeter version out of the water!!!” I was then quite surprised that when I had the opportunity to compare them side-by-side, with volumes carefully matched, that the difference was FAR more subtle. Ditto when Vandersteen upgraded the 3A to the 3A sig. ..The diff was very very subtle.
  3. I am NOT suggesting you or anyone else was playing games! (Sheesh). And yes, you should sleep well at night. You make great products and employ a great many people. I've not disputed that. Simply put: Bias is unavoidable when listening comparisons are not precisely volume-matched and blinded. I'm not suggesting you willfully misled people. I am, however, pointing out that you didn't go far enough to control the influence of biases. ..And you're in good company as ALL such invites by mfgs. to hear a new model probably are similar to yours.
  4. I am sorry you see those two statements as having the same meaning. ..They do not.
  5. Totally agree.. ...My grand parents got as much joy from music as anyone I know and they listened to it on the least expensive Realistic Carinette all-in-one system. One speaker was at ear level, the other on the floor.
  6. I did not say or suggest that Roy TOLD people what to praise. I AM saying that if someone who is regarded as an authority (such as Ray) say's something like "listen to how much tighter the bass is" (just a possible example) that it is predictable that people will hear tighter bass. This does not make you gullible, it makes you human. This is why when patients participate in clinical trial they are (generally) NOT told whether they are being given the control or study medication. And I'm not suggesting anyone needs my stamp of approval. I AM suggesting to those who visit this website (or other such) to research a purchase (such as IV CW or Heresy's) that they consider the environment in which others' observations were made. ..That there is a gross lack of validity testing in MUCH of what you read here AND other audio websites. That one should ALWAYS consider the context.
  7. This is NOT true. ..And I haven't made ANY mention of measurements in this thread. I DO want to hear peoples' opinions BUT find them be much much more valuable when efforts are made to minimize bias. And as I see it, a group of people being invited to Klipsch HQ, and then told what to listen for are NOT apt to offer anything but their approval that "Yes! ..That speaker (v. IV) does sound better. And as an engineer, I'm surprised you don't see my point. ..I'm not an engineer (I work in Pharma sales) but I am surrounded by them in my personal life and ALL of them agree with my belief that audio is bereft of any sensible bias controlling or validity testing.
  8. It's a shame you feel this way. I do think think those who read your comparative remarks about the III v. IV would find your answers to my questions to be helpful. ..And I'm not saying it's not a fine speaker, by the way. By and By, I find it so disappointing that people don't approach this hobby with greater scientific curiosity, which would included an interest in reducing bias, validity testing, etc..
  9. I have no idea what you're saying here, please expand. Volume matching was just ONE issue I raised - what about the others? ..Not the least of which is how being invited to Klipsch HQ is going to predispose someone to praise what they hear. Do you not agree?
  10. To be clear, I think MOST claims about improvements from one generation of speaker to another end up being more subtle than not. I'm merely suggesting that people not be overly impressed with anecdotal, and possibly bias-laden, accounts. Anyway, I think it would be helpful if you answered my questions as it would provide context and possibly help substantiate your observations about the IV. Thank you.
  11. Curious to know... When you compared the III's to the IV's: Did Roy tell you what was improved on the IV? If Yes, then listeners are predisposed to hearing the differences AND considering them to be improvements - BIAS! Were they carefully volume matched? If no, then the louder speaker is likely to be perceived as more open, dynamic, basically "better". - BIAS! Did you know which you were hearing at any given time? ..Was this a blinded or sighted comparison? If "sighted" there would be a strong tendency to pick Roy's version IV as sounding better. Afterall, you were his invited guest - would be kinda hard to say "nope, not hearing a difference." Kinda like a friend who says, "isn't my baby the most precious you've ever seen?" Plus, having been invited to preview the speakers confers a bit of prestige and pride on those invited. ..I see lot's of opportunity for confirmation bias here. BIAS! Did everyone hear everyone else's comments and observations? If yes, then much opportunity for each persons opinion to be affected by the opinions expressed by the others. Would be better if everyone just took notes on what they thought was better about them - then shared (or better, pass them to someone else to be read). BIAS! Sorry, but I find any listening comparison where there isn't a good-faithed effort to control biases to be rather uncompelling.
  12. I think what you're saying makes sense. ..And as the owner of Cornwall III's, who has been reading lot's of similar hyperbole about how "the Cornwall IV's crush the III's! (by probably the same group of posters) I can relate to your comments. ..While I haven't had the occasion to hear the Cornwall IV's, let alone compare them side-by-side with the III's, I'm quite certain if I got the chance, the difference would be FAR more subtle than what people here would have you believe. After all, they were designed, engineered, and manufactured with the same guiding principles - so why would there be a night & day difference between them? When I bought my previous 2 speakers - Vandersteen 3A Sigs, and Paradigm S8 v2's, I had the occasion to compare them directly with their predecessors AND they too had their fanboys who claimed that they new model absolutely trounced the outgoing. What did I find?? ..In blinded tests it was VERY difficult telling them apart. ..And even when I succeeded, it wasn't entirely clear which sounded MORE like music. ..Just slightly different. ..And so I bet it goes with the version IV Cornwall And Heresy. ..That the differences are much more subtle than what you read here
  13. And to add to Andrew Robinson's comments above, I'll repeat that Bob Crites, noted Klipsch authority and manufacturer of heralded upgrades (including drivers) also says Break-in, beyond an hour for large drivers, is BS. ..Of course it is. If a manufacturer knew their speakers sounded better after 30 hours of play, then they would make 30 hours of play part of the production process. And be doubly skeptical of anyone claiming electronic components or (sigh) cable have a break-in period. People offering mere anecdotal accounts of "I didn't think I'd hear a difference, but then I did..." are not very convincing. ...There can be a myriad of reasons why speakers or other components "sound" different from day to day, including one's mood, sinus congestion (gross), environmental noise, etc... But breakin? ..Sorry, but not so, IHMO.
  14. To test the "break-in" hypothesis I suggest doing the following: After unboxing a new pair of speakers, let ONE speaker play through the night. This can be easily accomplished using the balance control. ..Come morning, play a song in MONO with both speakers set side-by-side and switch b/w them using the balance control. Do you hear a difference??? I did this with Spica TC-50's, PSB Stratus Minis, Vandersteen 3A Sigs, and finally Paradigm S8 v2s. ..All were purchased new. ..Neither I, nor ANYONE in my family could hear one IOTA of difference b/w the speakers. Speaker break-in is a myth. Manufactures (some, not all) allow it to persist b/c it helps to mitigate returns from people who aren't bowled over by how their brand new speakers sound. "Don't do any critical listening for 50 hours" serves a purpose for manufacturers. ..They know that after that period of time your ears will have adjusted to your new speakers and the impulse to return them will have passed. And you'll probably have re-read the great reviews that led you to the purchase in the first place and have gone to web forums such as this where people will reassure you that they are much better than what you had.
  15. I don't doubt what you're saying. Unfortunately, when a new iteration comes out it's inevitable that some will claim HUGE improvements based on marketing claims, etc.. In reality, there's not a great deal known now that wasn't known when the V2's came out. ..I wouldn't be surprised that when you actually set them side by side, the differences are suddenly quite subtle. As for break-in. ..I wouldn't count on it. THere's no way it takes 40 hours for speakers to break in. Bob Crites, who manufacturers replacement parts (incl. drivers, crossovers, etc..) and is regarded/ respected as an authority on all-things Klipsch, said that the most it takes for drivers to break is about an hour. 40 hours is totally redic.
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