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About ODS123

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    McIntosh MA6600 Integrated; Emotiva DAC; Mac Mini; Technics SL-1210GR; Klipsch Cornwall III

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  1. ODS123

    Beatles Sound Terrible on My Fortes

    My gripes about their sound quality aside I would find it impossible to turn my nose up at any of their catalog because of poor mixing, equalizing, etc. The Beatles went from the sugar sweet pop of Love Me Do to make-me-wanna break stuff Adrenalin of Helter Skelter in a few short years, and in each of these iterations they were unlike anything else before them. I’ll take their music any way I can get it.
  2. ODS123

    Beatles Sound Terrible on My Fortes

    I long ago gave up on the idea of a perfect speaker that makes all music sound great. No such speaker exists. This is why I advocate that people use preamp’s/integrated amplifiers/or AVR receivers that feature tone controls. When zeroed tone-controls do absolutely no audible harm to the signal, but can do all sorts of magic when listening to music like you described. In addition to tone-controls when listening to the Beatles I find myself often using the mono switch on my integrated amp as well. I find the mixing on some songs whereby all of the guitar comes from one speaker and all of the vocal from the other to be incredibly irritating. And certainly not at all lifelike. Viva la tone controls and mono switch!!!
  3. I have a SL-1210GR. ..Bought it new 2 mos. ago. I absolutely love it. ..Wouldn't buy anything but a DD TT. ..Enjoy your G!
  4. ODS123

    Forte III wood finish

    It might be worth your while reaching out to Klipsch and asking if they can custom build a pair of F3's in the CW3's Cherry finish. This can't be so unusual a request. ..As you suggested, what if someone was trying to match F3's to their CW3's for a HT setup?
  5. ODS123

    Forte III wood finish

    Their finishes are different - at least based on what I saw. ..I listened and to both in Cherry. While I thought the F3 sounded great (though not as nice as the CW3's) I didn't care as much for the finish. I thought it kinda strange that they had different finishes though both were Cherry. ..Yes, the CW3 is deeper and a bit glossier. It's not that the F3's aren't attractive, they are. ..But definitely lighter and a bit duller. If I bought the F3's, I would probably chosen Black Ash or Walnut. CW3's in Cherry. Our built-in cabinet and floors are also Cherry and match the speakers quite closely. ..The Forte Cherry must be a different strain or something.
  6. I'm not talking about measured differences b/w cables, I'm talking about repeatable identification b/w cables. No need to do measurements at all, just whether a person can say, when blinded from which is in use, whether it's A, B, or neither.
  7. I haven't and wouldn't call you or anyone else that. ..I'm not suggesting it either. I'm trying to get people to acknowledge that audio engineering is a science and as such biases need to be recognized and controlled before we know whether something is really audible or not. WCD: ..my hearing has been tested and it is just fine thanks. Plus, I have a keen sense for musical nuance honed by a lifetime of listening to live and recorded music at reasonable sound levels.
  8. I would love to know the details of your cable test. Specifically, how participants were kept from knowing if there were listening to the same or different cable (ie., blinded). And also to know if ALL cables compared were deemed suitable for the purpose by a competent engineer. I find claims of hearing even a "subtle" difference very hard to swallow.
  9. Sorry, but that strikes me as totally incredible. wdecho, you seem nice enough and you're obviously entitled to believe what you want - that's fine of course. ..But I do once again urge any newbies lurking to give some long serious thought to that claim before upgrading beyond the cable that came with their component. Hey newbies, look at it this way: how can electricity come from a power plant 150 miles away, run through countless junction boxes, transformers, splices, wire of varying gauges - any of which might change on a daily basis - yet when we change the last three feet that runs from our power outlet to our amp, there is a noticeable change?? Yes, some claim to hear an improvement, but none of these claims take expectation bias (placebo effect) into account. Again, this is one of those things some will say, "hey, to each their own - try it and see if it works for you!" ..Well, isn't this a science!? Isn't electrical engineering founded on scientific principles?? It's not wine tasting. ..It's engineering. This can be empirically tested yet few audiophile seems interested.
  10. Yes of course, tone controls are NOT essential - this is self-evident as many people enjoy listening to their music without them. But it's just as important to assert that they are NOT harmful to the signal when zero'd or taken out of the circuit with a Tone bypass switch.. That is a point worth restating for the impressionable newbies who may be reading this thread. I urge them to be very skeptical of people who claim they can hear a signal being damaged by the addition of tone controls to an otherwise well-engineered integrated amp or pre-amplifier. Just I've said three times now, if a signal is audibly damaged by just two tone controls then why isn't it rendered totally unrecognizable by the hundreds of sliders, pots, etc... that are in the signal path of the mixing boards used to record so much of the audiophile-approved music many hear enjoy.
  11. Well engineered pre-amps and integrated amps that feature tone controls have noise levels that are well below our hearing threshold. My current (Mac MA6600) and previous integrated (NAD 375bee) and even my AVR (Onkyo TX NR1030) all have noise levels that are basically inaudible. So if I'm paying a price for each of these having tone controls, what would that price be??
  12. This is of course true. ..The idea that the signal is AUDIBLY (!) degraded EVERY time the signal passes through a pot, slider, etc.. is not rooted in fact. As I said, if this were true then a signal would be rendered unrecognizable by a mixing board. ..And we know that is not the case. Perhaps EVERY audiophile favorite - including steely dan, patricia barber, Norah jones, etc. - was recorded using something like this. So I recommend any newbies who read this thread to be VERY suspicious of any audiophile who tells you to avoid Tone controls b/c - even when zero'd - they AUDIBLY damage the signal. This is simply nonsense.
  13. Sorry but I didn't mean to imply this. ..In fact, I very much disagree. Using myself as an example, I will use my tone controls to make a wonderful song that is poorly recored listenable, whereas the ardent audiophile will often simply chose to never listen to that same song. ..which is a shame because there is TONS of great songs that are quite poorly recorded. Moreover, in my life I have seen the most extensive music collections - LP and CD - belonging to people w/ full-feature receivers/ integrateds rather than purist audiophiles w/ minimalist featureless gear.. Indeed, some of the latter have barely 50-60 albums. So no, I DON'T think tone controls are used by those who aren't serious about their music. ..In fact, I believe the converse is true.
  14. Seeing and reading about all that stuff makes it clear that you an audio hobbyist who enjoys endlessly tinkering. ..Something that is definitely to be lauded and respected. But it's also predictable that you're probably not going to like ANY speaker right out of the box. ..And will almost certainly prefer dismantling and re-engineering a speaker to a simple turn of a treble knob. ..That is fine of course. But that doesn't mean an equalizer and/or tone-controls wouldn't be the far better way of tailoring music for the vast majority of audio, or make that music lovers.
  15. I'm sorry but given your unshakeable belief in audiophile orthodoxy there may be no way to really help you but to suggest you buy different speakers. Or, alternatively, maybe you can disabuse yourself of your notion that tone controls somehow audibly (operative word here) damage the signal. I'll never understand how a signal is supposedly damaged by passing through a zero'd bass/treble control. You do realize that most of the recorded music you listen to has - since the note was played by the musician, to the time it's burned onto your cd - passed through dozens, maybe hundreds of signal breaks, including equalizer, attenuators, etc... If each such break incrementally reduced the signal that passed through, you'd think the signal would be rendered unrecognizable