nicesound
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On 1/28/2018 at 1:40 PM, DerKommisar said:
I just demoed the NAD C328 with the KEF LS50, Klipsch RP-150M and JBL Studio 530. I really wanted like this piece because it had all the features I was looking for use in my bedroom 2channel system. However the sound quality was just not there. Bass is lacking and the midrange seems thin. I can see why they included a bass boost eq. It sounded best paired with the JBL’s but I don’t this amp delivers the full potential of any of these speakers. I also have a Cambridge CXA60 on hand for comparison which is in a different league to the NAD. The sound from the Cambridge is richer and more full bodied.
DerKommisar,
That is a very interesting post! You somehow covered everything I've been looking at for speakers. I'm not really planning to buy more expensive speakers now though. I have the JBL 530's.
Where in the world did you see JBL 530's on display? They aren't found around as much.I also just found this thread and noticed you replied to my thread.
They mention nCore sounding much better than UcD, which is in the NAD I'm looking at. Do you think the Cambridge sounds better because more watts RMS? Also, if so NAD a more powerful similarly priced UcD amp maybe.
I think I really wanted a class D Hypex though. I was looking into those NC400 mono block kits. That is way more power than I would need though. I think klipsch Bookshelf speakers need like 4 watts to listen at standard 80db and have power handling of like 80 watts and the NC400 are 400 watts RMS I think!
Do you have any idea how the NAD C328 would compare to my AV receiver Marantz NR1606? That is what I'm using right now.
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Teaman,
I just looked at that eBay posting. Thanks.
I think I'm pretty close to buying the NAD C 328. I really want to get away from an AV receiver. I may get an AV pre-amplifier by a good brand some day, but until then I think an HDMI switch would work just fine.
This new Class D amplifier technology also sounds very nice and NAD apparently uses the best class D chip, though with some special implementation. Having a receiver that is super slim, needs no heat vents, so I can stack stuff on it if I want, is also nice. The simplicity of the device and the remote also seem to match my style and I like to reward companies for that as well as use their products.
The only thing that could make it more future proof would be a modular power supply so I can swap out an AC power supply for DC. I believe homes will start running on DC within the next 10 years. Only current way around that is to get an amp that runs off of DC and has an AC adapter, but I didn't see any really good ones like that.
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20 hours ago, teaman said:
This might even be a good place to start.
https://emotiva.com/product/ta-100/
This is basically a low powered (50 WPC) two channel integrated amp with pre-outs so you can add an external amp as your system grows. You may think 50 WPC is pretty low but Emotiva specializes in amps and their power is actual power. That Yamaha rated at 100 WPC would be lucky to push 50.
This one linked above has a built in DAC, of very good quality for the price. It gives you three analog inputs, including phono capability. It offers two digital inputs and the Bluetooth option to stream. There is also a tuner if radio is your thing. Plus it has a capable headphone amp built in.
It also comes with a three year warranty and excellent customer service from a company that really does stand behind their products. If you call them directly they more than likely have Factory Refreshed or B-Stock for less than that price tag of $399. I know of several people that own, or have owned this own and everyone seems to think it is a bargain.
Edit: After seeing USNRET's post this TA-100 is basically the A-100 with a preamp and DAC built in.
Tim
Teaman,
I was actually ready to press "buy" on the payment page of the Emotiva T-100 about a week ago. Before that I was considering getting their pre-amp(pt-100) and the power amp A-150. JBL also said that to use the speakers to their full potential you should use an amp that can match the power handling of the speakers. That is kind of what I thought early on as well, though I'm not so sure if that is only if you want to drive them for a very large room, rather than simply wanting to have the full fidelity. I do not intend to use them in a very large room. My JBL's are 125 W RMS per channel.
Also, do you think the NAD C 328 Hybrid Digital DAC Amplifier ($550) would be "real" power just like the Emotiva TA-100 ($400). They are both rated at 50 watts RMS and both amplifier companies. I'm a little more skeptical of Emotiva though compared to other brands as they just seem a little more audiphile rather than hi-fi. I also like the idea of the Class D amplifier that NAD uses. Emotiva will not switch to class D I'm pretty sure because that goes against audiophile thinking probably. Emotiva has also released multiple products with weird bugs I believe. I'm quite a bit more skeptical of Emotiva now. I'm also skeptical of JBl since they discontinued their nice bookshelf speakers 5 series and the new ones look really cheap and ugly and half the price. Klipsch on the other hand keeps releasing consistent series year after year and doesn't abandon a line or release tacky looking speakers with bad profile and I like that.
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teaman, Well the Yamaha can do 70W per channel at 6 ohms, which is what my current speakers are. The Marantz I was using was only rated 50W (at 8 ohms I believe and I don't know for 6 ohms). The Yamaha is even more watts than the more expensive NAD amplifier. I think either will work. I don't think I'm going to blow them by cranking up the volume too high for the wattage to try to hear them. I also use them in a small room.
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2 minutes ago, teaman said:
Are you dead set on buying new? You could buy nice quality gear used with much higher original MSRP in used than what you can get new.
Are you looking at a budget you want to stay under for the amp? Strictly two channel or the possibility of adding channels and going surround in the future?
teaman, I have considered buying used. I checked on ebay and craigslist. One thing though is that these big items cost a lot to ship used for what they cost. I didn't see anything on ebay. Also, if I buy something pre-owned even if it has not been used I expect to not pay more than half the price of buying it from a registered retailer with a warranty due to the increased risk. If I could pick up a Yamaha s-301 for $150 I might do that. I also kind of like the idea of slim receivers or more specifically class D amplifiers like the NAD because they do give me a lot more space on my rack and may be more future proof.
I'm on my third integrated amplifier / receiver as the last two died on me. The Onkyo AV receiver onscreen meny failed so I couldn't change the setting anymore and the Marantz the same thing happend, though it is being repaired under warranty right now. However, I decided to stop using AV receivers because they are too complicated and fail and also because I don't want to do surround sound anymore. So, I plan to try to sell the Marantz used and buy a simple integrated stereo amplifier.
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4 minutes ago, teaman said:
NiceSound, maybe I missed it but are you driving the JBL or looking at a specific Klipsch speaker to power? Just because you can use a low power amp doesn't mean you have to. There is no such thing as overkill. A more powerful amp will better control your speakers. If you have larger drivers you still need the power to push the driver.
From your last post it looks like you are thinking about a small bookshelf type speaker with a small driver to use in conjunction with a subwoofer. is this correct?
Also, where are you located and what is your budget for each the amp and the speakers. Each or both
Tim
Teaman, I'm going to start just by powering the JBL Studio 530's. I used to think I needed closer to 100 - 125 watts for those because I was told so in reviews and that is also the power handling. What do you think? More recently I decided that isn't true. The website says they can take 30 to 125 or something like that, but the customer service seems to suggest people go to the highest.
I'd like to try klipsch in the future perhaps and that is why I'm asking here. What people said about not saving much in cost to manufacture watts below 50 makes sense to me and I was wondering perhaps that was the case. 50/60 watts RMS per channel is basically standard entry level now.
I mostly listen to bookshelf speakers at the computer desk to listen to music, play games or use them next to the TV for movies and pull a recliner up really close to the TV.
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52 minutes ago, wvu80 said:
May I ask what sub you have?
The reason is some subs have two ways of getting a signal, high level and low level inputs. The low level is an RCA cable, but the high level uses your regular +/- speaker wire.
If your receiver or 2-channel integrated amp does not have a sub-out (most don't) that will give you an option. FYI I run a older 60 watt JVC receiver with my Mancave TV into a 2.1 setup using a 10" Paradigm sub.
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Option: You might consider getting a pre-used AVR from a few years ago. You can get some fantastic sounding AVR's for pennies on the dollar (like a hundred bucks) as people let them go cheap as they upgrade to AVR's with HDMI. They almost always support optical in and it will have the sub pre-out as well.
Wvu80, I have the Emotiva Ultra Sub 10. It does not have high level inputs. I don't really want the subwoofer, but I'll try it with my new amplifier. I haven't used a subwoofer in years. It is the only Emotiva product I've bought. I think I'd be more likely to buy a Klipsch subwoofer or maybe a BIC. I know BIC has high level inputs. They could come in handy when some integarted amplifiers don't have pre-outs or subwoofer out, but I think I expect pre-outs or subwoofer out more than high level inputs on a subwoofer. I'm also not sure if that drains the power of the amplifier or not.
My thought is to get main speakers with drivers no larger than 5.25 inches and use a sub-woofer if I really need more low frequency.
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1 hour ago, USNRET said:
Yes, they are very efficient.
As an amplifier manufacturer states "if the first watt sucks, why continue"
Quality not quantity.Based on the above, you want an integrated amp or receiver..not an amplifier.
Welcome to the forum by the way.Mike, Thanks for the welcome and yes, I almost said "integrated-amplifier" as that is what I want, not a power-amplifier. I also want it with a DAC as well, though I considered getting a $30 fiio toslink DAC and plugging it into some integrated amplifiers that don't have a DAC and I'm sure it would sound perfect, though may be more likely to fail, but could be cheaply replaced.
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What would be the least expensive high quality amplifier for Klipsch Premier bookshelf speakers as part of a 2.1 setup?
I know Klipsch speakers are very high sensitivity, so that means one should not have to spend as much to buy a more powerful amplifier. My calculations actually show that to listen at 80db, which is the recommended listening level, one would only need a 5 watt RMS amplifier with Klipsch speakers. Those same formulas show that a common medium-low sensitivity speaker would require about ten times the wattage (50 watts) such as the JBL Studio 530, which I own and have 5 stars on What hi-fi I wonder why they don't review the Klipsch reference priemere bookshelf speakers. I also saw the new CES 2018 version coming out in august and would get those if I switch to Klipsch.
The The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel has a video called "How many watts do I need?" which has a link to a spreadsheet in the comments to calculate. The video also mentions that wattage is not enough to go on and the "torque" so to speak has no measurable rating in audio electronics. This is why two amplifiers with the same wattage could have very different results.
I saw the Yamaha s-301 which would be more than adequate at $350 and 60 watts RMS per channel. However this seems overkill. I know cambridge audio makes amplifiers which are as low as 20 watts RMS, however I'm not impressed with their website and lack of specs. I know not all amplifiers are the same and found a review of the 20 watt Audioengine amplifier that said it left the music sounding flat and empty compared to a 30+ year old NAD amplifier that was also only 20 watts and is also a class A/B amplifier.
I'm very interested in these new slim and low heat class D amplifiers and have searched all brands that make them, however the good Japanese or Canadian/USA brands are quite expensive compared to the $100 class D amps being shipped out of China by unusual brands which have many reviews of defects and no customer support.
I found the nice NAD C 328 class D amplifier for $550 which is 50 watts RMS per channel and that would drive any bookshelf speakers, though it seems overkill and it is their entry level. It does have sub-woofer out though, which is important. I like the simplicity of the design and lack of knobs.
It does bother me a bit they included blu-tooth, which I don't really need, but they also didn't make it the aptX version, which is the CD quality standard used which their next model up has. I wish they just left it out or labeled an RCA input for that if you wanted to buy something separate to plug in. Also, a lower end model might have been nice for high sensitivity speakers like Klipsch to bring it to a wider audience. But, anyway, that is sort of pointless to complain about I guess.
Any recommendations for amplifiers? I would most likely want optical in and subwoofer out / pre-out.
Thank You.
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Class D Crown vs. Hypex nCore
in Solid State
Posted
Do you know how the Hypex nCore compare to the best ICEpower amps or even ClassDAudio (brand) amps? The Hypex nCore is extremely expensive. I have not found a brand that offers them at what I would consider a price within my budget for the value they may offer.
I find your post very interesting about UcD vs. nCore though. The Klipsch amplifier uses UcD and so does the NAD amplifier around $500. A TEAC around $300 uses an ICEpower though is only rated something like 25watts. ICEpower ASX2 is supposed to be better and there are multiple tiers of ICEpower.
I think Nord is the cheapest around $800 for a 50 watt RMS per channel power amplifie using Hypex NCore NC252MP twin channel Module, so maybe I would consider that. I'd still need a preamp/DAC. It is Hypex nCore MP which is supposedly 85-90% as good quality (as the non-MP?) nCore lines. Not sure exactly.