[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

Well it's been a couple of months but I finally got around to building stands.

 

I tried tilting the speakers and it did help some but it was a trade-off, mid-range improved but it high frequencies were off in the distance and not as present as they should be.  Plus tilting adds another dimension to finding the sweet spot. It's bad enough having to adjust toe-in, distance apart, and distance away to also have to get the distance where the tilt angle height is right. Too close and the sweet spot's still below you, too far and it's above your head.

 

I bought a 4x4 and a 2x6 and built 6" stands that incorporated the "corner post" style of the stands moray james posted, along with the open box style that others suggested would help maintain bass coupling. I am pleased to report I got the sound I was looking for. 

 

If there was a loss or change of bass output it was completely eclipsed by the amazing improvement in imaging and mid-range punch that putting the speakers closer to ear level made. Bass is still strong and solid and appears to have tightened up but I think that's due to the woofers being higher. I can feel it in my chest more now.

 

Keep in mind that the woofers of the KLF-10's are responsible for frequencies below 2300Hz, that's a lot of direction-sensitive sound sitting around your knees, so getting them closer to ear height makes the mids and upper bass bloom. If you're trying to tame bright horns, getting the horn just above ear level, and bringing the lower frequency producing parts of the speaker closer to the ear may help.

[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

1 hour ago, avguytx said:

 

Oh, I agree with you whole heartedly. I spent almost 30 years in the home A/V industry (and car audio) in all facets...installation, retail sales,  management, store owner, and 9 years of that 30 as a manufacturers rep for many lines. There's sacrifice in all that they R&D for whatever given price points.  The bean counters have a lot to say in it! Haha

 

There should be a link to my build in my signature. If not, let me know. 

 

Definitely try the felt pads for poops and grins. It didn't take a lot of "lift" to get them where they were better.  I sat maybe 14 feet back. 

WOW. I thought you owned Belle clones, but you built them. I think you picked the perfect finish for them too. I wish I had the time and workspace/tools for woodworking, but I work on industrial machines so all I have are mechanic's tools. 

 

I noticed you used Russian PIO's then switched to Audyn MKP to improve the HF rolloff. I plan on using a combination of those very same PIO's plus an MKP on the KFL10 tweeter crossover to try to get a combination of PIO warmth and MKP HF.

[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

2 minutes ago, SWL said:

 

 

Yeah, instead of the Klipsch poster saying 'Pissing off the nighbors since 1942'..... there should be small print explaining the reason the neighbors are pissed is because the speakers aren't performing at their full potential.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

 

HA! I was thinking more like Kenwood or Sony speakers... Every member of this forum knows that Klipsch hits closer to the mark than any other big producer. But even then... I just put in Bob's titanium tweeters and my klipsch speakers are even more "klipschy". I mostly piss off my wife and kids!

[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

42 minutes ago, Emile said:

Haha ... get some "lower" chairs.  Think you're a Mechanical Engineer, so you know there are multiple ways to solve the problem  

In my case (CF-3's with the horn between the woofers) I got some Ikea Poang chairs - think ear level is about 33 inches   Have them in my (separate) stereo room ... wife never goes there. Pic below ... pic from sellers house; got them cheap for $110; yes, leather  

 

Oops ... BTW, welcome to the forum  

Beautiful  chairs! Man, now you got me going to Ikea!

[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

19 minutes ago, avguytx said:

I had the CF-3's for awhile (miss them) and, sure, maybe there was some loss of HF but if the seating position is farther back at the right distance, they were great.  IF they were to have been un-coupled from the floor, they would have sounded awful.  But how many people sit 4 feet from their large speakers, anyway?  I tilted the fronts of the speakers with round felt pads and I could hear enough noticeable difference.  I was NOT going to put 100lb CF-3's on stands and for darn sure not like those pictured above with the Forte III's.  Small bookshelf speakers are made to go on speaker stands because they are (wait for it) small and that gets them closer to ear level.  Big speakers were just not designed to go on large stands just to get their mid "up to ear level"; it's just a sacrifice.  I couldn't imagine putting my Belle clones on  top of stands just to accomplish something like that....it would look completely stupid.  If PWK wanted them at ear level, why didn't he just put them there in the first place?  And the same goes with every other speaker manufacturer out there.

 

My fix for big speakers not being at ear level?  Use a shorter chair.     😎  Or buy one that fits along with ones speakers so they perform how they were designed....which was NOT sitting on open bottom stands.

Thanks for your comment. I think we should remember that almost every time a speaker-builder designs and makes a speaker, it is not a cost-is-no-object endeavour, and they are mostly building under cost and design constraints. That means that in many cases the speakers they built could have sounded better. How much more would it have cost PWK to make the Belles taller? Why not just make the best speaker he possibly could every time. It wasn't because they sounded the best the way he made them, but rather that was the best sound for the use he envisioned for them, combined with cost he was willing to take on and the price he thought he could get for them.

 

I wish I could afford taller horn driven speakers, or I could use a shorter chair, but it would have to be a chair about 10" off the ground. Plus my listening space is my home-theater/office/studio. It's a small room and most of the time I'm in my office chair just a few feet from the speakers, so height is crucial.

 

I like your idea of using felt pads to tilt, I think I have some felt pads hiding somewhere. I can imagine the height of the CF-3's really being an issue at a close distance. Did you keep the felt pads under the CF-3's even when your sitting position was further back? Also, I'd like to see pictures of your Belle clones.

[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

5 hours ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

Every time I have rasied floor standing speakers they lost considerable amounts of bass.  Especially short boxy speakers like fortes etc... KG 4.5 & 5.5 or KLF 10,20,30 are taller & narrower & dont look right raised up on stands IMO. 

 

If you want to get the tweeters closer to ear level I think a slight tilting would be the best option, 1-2" tilt will not mess with perception much if at all.  Heresies have tilted risers & I've never heard anyone say, "my brain expects the sound to come at me from a more normal stage height."  

 

Play with tilting them or maybe change their position or your listening position a bit.

I will definitely experiment with tilting before committing to purchasing and building any type of stand. 

[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

5 hours ago, glens said:

Keep posting that photo and some folks are going to start to think raising floor-standers, especially with a void under them, is a good idea, though I won't be one of them.  At least skirt those stands so all four sides of the cabinet can acoustically couple to the floor, please.  It's painful to look at knowing what it does to the lower registers.

So if I were to build 6" tall "boxes" under the klf's (like the risers on fortes or chorus'), do you think I would not lose bass?

[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

7 hours ago, moray james said:

it has been my experience that tilting messes with the perception of the stage because your brain expects sounds to come to you from in front of you at a normal stage height. When you tilt a speaker up then the sound is coming to you unnaturally from below the normal plane from which you would it expect it to. I use stands to raise my speakers so that the centre of the mid horn (in your case the mid/tweeter horn at your seated ear level. Attached is a set of new Forte lll on four post stands to raise the centre of the mid horn to seated ear level. The factory risers have been removed for stability and esthetics.

Thank you for your response. I like the way those stands look, they look like a part of the speaker. They actually make me think of the concessions speaker builders make to meet price and aesthetic demands. It wouldn't be hard to determine a range of seating heights and build speakers accordingly, but how many wives would say "no" to an even taller speaker?!

 

But please tell me how it has affected bass response. And could you tell me the height of those stands? They look about 8" tall, and the forte being 36" tall, that tells me that your sitting height is about the same as mine (39") because those stands would put the spot between the tweeter and the mid at about 38"-39" (from my visual guestimation).

 

I desperately need these KLF10's at that height, the sound difference is night-and-day. I have a sub woofer (synergy sub12), and am trying to get a second one, so I can overcome the loss in the lower end, but the klf's are putting out such a good bass response in the mid-lower to mid-upper bass region that I would hate to lose it.

[KLF-10 HEIGHT, STANDS OR TILT?]

In my listening position my ear is 39" high. The tweeter center of the KLF10 is about 33" high. When I lower my ear to the level of the tweeter center or just below,  the sound really blooms. I need to make up that 6" somehow. I can either build some 6" stands or tilt the speakers back a few degrees to get a 6" height differential to my seating position. 

 

I was hoping other Klipsch tower owners who have dealt with this issue can chime in. I know stands can change bass response, so how did it change in your experience? 

 

Tilting is used to time-align tweeters to woofers and mid-ranges, but with a recessed Klipsch horn I doubt that's even an issue. Will I create an issue should I tilt? 

 

Or is there an option I haven't considered?

 

I guess every solution comes with it's own set of problems...I will be doing some testing but in the meantime, I would like to hear what you've heard.