KyleY

Hey All, (This is also posted in my other thread "Hiss in Reference Series with Denon 3802" but since it is important to both I posted it here too). Well, I'm pretty convinced that all or at least most receivers have the hiss I have been experiencing. I heard it in another Denon 3802 in a dealer's setup as well as a Pioneer Elite (worse in the Pioneer). I ended up buying a Sony 5ES to directly compare to the Denon at home. The Sony's hiss was almost completely inaudible at the lowest volume setting while the Denon's could be heard easier. On the other hand, the Sony's hiss was way louder at max volume than the Denon's was at max volume. So, that didn't decide anything for me. I listened to some music and DVDs, and I couldn't tell a whole lot of difference between the two. The Denon did seem to have better separation of the music, and it seemed to be a little easier on the ears at the same volume. The Sony seemed to scream at me more. The differences were *not* big though. When listening to DVDs (scenes from The Matrix, Saving Private Ryan), I tried the Studio Cinema B that others love. Neither stood out to me as much better than the other, but the Sony did some odd things - speech normally included in the center channel only was heard in the left / right front speakers. For some reason, that speech sounded a little mechanical (like a slight echo). That was the only big difference I noticed. When watching The Matrix, I preferred the Sony sound, but when watching Saving Private Ryan the Denon seemed to sound better to me. Sorry, I can't really describe the differences... Since I couldn't tell much of a difference between the two, didn't need the extra features of the Sony, and the hiss was present in both receivers, I decided to keep the Denon and save nearly $200. It would have been a toss-up, but the price difference made the choice easier. The Sony's remote is better, it's upgradable, has a 5 year warranty (vs Denon's 1 year), and the onscreen menus are much better. It also had a lot more controls (EQ, crossover frequencies, etc.), but I'm probably better off not messing with that anyway. At any rate, the Sony is clearly a more advanced receiver, but the actual sound wasn't much different from the Denon and seemed a little inferior in the music area... BTW, I do plan to unplug everything from the house to see if that has anything to do with the hiss, but after hearing it in stores, I think it may just be normal. Later, --Kyle

Hey All, Well, I'm pretty convinced that all or at least most receivers have the hiss I have been experiencing. I heard it in another Denon 3802 in a dealer's setup as well as a Pioneer Elite (worse in the Pioneer). I ended up buying a Sony 5ES to directly compare to the Denon at home. The Sony's hiss was almost completely inaudible at the lowest volume setting while the Denon's could be heard easier. On the other hand, the Sony's hiss was way louder at max volume than the Denon's was at max volume. So, that didn't decide anything for me. I listened to some music and DVDs, and I couldn't tell a whole lot of difference between the two. The Denon did seem to have better separation of the music, and it seemed to be a little easier on the ears at the same volume. The Sony seemed to scream at me more. The differences were *not* big though. When listening to DVDs (scenes from The Matrix, Saving Private Ryan), I tried the Studio Cinema B that others love. Neither stood out to me as much better than the other, but the Sony did some odd things - speech normally included in the center channel only was heard in the left / right front speakers. For some reason, that speech sounded a little mechanical (like a slight echo). That was the only big difference I noticed. When watching The Matrix, I preferred the Sony sound, but when watching Saving Private Ryan the Denon seemed to sound better to me. Sorry, I can't really describe the differences... Since I couldn't tell much of a difference between the two, didn't need the extra features of the Sony, and the hiss was present in both receivers, I decided to keep the Denon and save nearly $200. It would have been a toss-up, but the price difference made the choice easier. The Sony's remote is better, it's upgradable, has a 5 year warranty (vs Denon's 1 year), and the onscreen menus are much better. It also had a lot more controls (EQ, crossover frequencies, etc.), but I'm probably better off not messing with that anyway. At any rate, the Sony is clearly a more advanced receiver, but the actual sound wasn't much different from the Denon and seemed a little inferior in the music area... BTW, I do plan to unplug everything from the house to see if that has anything to do with the hiss, but after hearing it in stores, I think it may just be normal. Later, --Kyle

Hey all, Many of you may recall I was getting hiss with my Denon 3802 + Klipsch RF3 II speakers (w/ no source) and the hiss got worse when a CD was playing (perhaps just CD hiss). Well, I went to a local store and listened to the Denon 3802 there, and the hiss was there too (as well as a buzz). I listened to a Pioneer Elite receiver as well, and also heard the hiss. I went to another store and listened to Sony & Marantz. I didn't hear the hiss at first, but it appears they are switching themselves off when no audio is coming in. When a CD was playing, I heard a good amount of hiss, but that was likely just CD hiss. Anyway, I'm still thinking of trying out the Sony because it has all the features I want, I can probably get it for close to the same price, and it sounded good in the store. What I might do is bring it home and compare it directly to the Denon (and keep the one that sounds better). Before I do, I was wondering what others thought of this receiver? Is it worth considering over the Denon? I wasn't as impressed with the Harman Kardon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Marantz, or Yamaha in terms of features I'm looking for (powered multi-room / multi-source, DTS ES, DD II, etc.). I originally thought Sony to be a step below others in receivers, but I've heard some people recommend this one. It has mostly the same features as the Denon with a few minor additions. I'm sold on the features, but I was wondering what people thought of the build quality and sound quality. It will be used both for home theater and music, probably more home theater (DVDs). Thoughts? Thanks, --Kyle

FYI, I spoke with Denon technical support regarding this issue, and they seemed to think it was normal... I don't think that buying a MSRP $1,200 receiver and hearing hiss at -70 on the volume dial is normal myself. In a $200 receiver, maybe. They claimed it was due to the speakers being very efficient (Klipsch and I also tried JBL). They suggested I take it to a local service center and have it checked out. That's what I'm going to do, but I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the results. If it's bad and can be repaired, great. If it isn't "defective" I don't know if I'll keep it or send it back and get an entirely different receiver (maybe Sony? I want one with multi-room / multi-source capability). Later, --Kyle

Hi again... Well, I have more conclusive results that allow me to definitely blame the problem on the 3802. I disconnected the 3802 from all components and speaker. I took the 3802 to a wall outlet separate from everything else. I plugged it in and one speaker (Klipsch RF3-II) and absolutely nothing else. Once again, as soon as I turned the volume from --- (off) to -70 (one notch up), I heard the hum. Like before, it got louder as I turned the volume up. To take it even further, I hooked up an old JBL bookshelf speaker and I got the exact same hum. I even used different speaker wires. Definitely a problem with the 3802! I'll be trying to get it serviced now. I didn't by it locally though (over the Net), but I did buy it from an authorized Denon distributor - 6ave.com. Hopefully I can get a local service center to service it... As far as the suggestion to trade it in, that may be ideal, but I'd have to ship it back and I'm not sure if it's still within the time frame to do that... Thanks, --Kyle

Okay, I found another very odd thing about my problem: When I turn the volume all the way up to +15, the hiss gets louder, but I could *also* hear an FM radio station! I could hear it loud enough that I could clearly make out the song anywhere in the room - "Running with the Devilllll..." I could clearly hear it with my ear to the speaker as low as -16 on the volume. So, what might this mean? Thanks again, --Kyle BTW, this is the radio station I currently have tuned in on the FM tuner in the receiver. BTW2, I have just a speaker wire that is plugged into my antenna connector at the back of the receiver. That speaker wire (antenna) runs along with all the other wires as well. This evening I plan to unhook the receiver, place it in a corner by itself with one of my RF3-II towers (only one hooked up) with nothing but the wall plug and one speaker wire connected to the receiver, and I'll see if I still have hiss and / or the radio interference. This message has been edited by KyleY on 04-24-2002 at 09:17 AM

Hi all, Well, I've done more testing and I'm not too happy with the results: 1. The hiss occurs immediately when I take the volume from off to -70 (the first volume setting). I just hadn't noticed it before. 2. The hiss gets slightly louder as I turn up the volume to max. Also, as I turn up the volume I notice faint pops and clicks (this is with no source playing) as the volume is being adjusted. 3. It doesn't matter whether the input is optical or RCA (DVD or CD player) or even FM radio - all hiss. All of my testing was actually done with nothing even playing - just the DVD or CD player on pause or off. 4. Doesn't matter what DSP mode it's in - Direct, Stereo, 5 channel stereo, dolby, etc. 5. The hiss is in all 5 speakers at all volume levels. So, what's the verdict? Bad Denon? Should I see about getting it serviced or try to return it altogether? Thanks everyone for the help! --Kyle

Thanks for your replies. I'm closing this thread b/c I posted it in Technical Questions as well (sorry for the double-post). Thanks, --Kyle

Hi Zandern, I've tried a CD player and a DVD player (separate units) and both have the hiss (one an optical connection, the other RCA). I think power wires could be a problem... I do have all my power cables and speaker wires going through the same hole at the back of the entertainment center, so perhaps that has something to do with it. I'm getting an RPTV in the next week and 1/2, so I'll reroute my wiring then. Thanks, --Kyle

Hi Doug, Yes, this is my first set of Klipsch. It's actually my first decent stereo really. The CDs I was listening to are relatively new (Pearl Jam - Yield for example). I'll try what you suggest, but I'm pretty sure there is no hiss when there's no input. I don't notice the hiss at lower volumes, but I need to experiment more... I hope it is just the recording, but even then, I'm still disappointed in the hiss Other than that, the sound is excellent. Thanks, --Kyle This message has been edited by KyleY on 04-22-2002 at 11:25 AM

Hey all, Sorry for posting this twice - I wasn't sure which forum it was more appropriate for... I now have my Denon 3802 plus Klipsch reference series (RF3 II) 5.1 set (no sub yet though). Anyway, when playing CDs through my DVD player's optical output (or my old CD player's RCA output), I hear hiss (or static?) at moderately high volumes (starts around -22 on the volume dial). It's enough to make me sick that I spent this much money and have hiss / static to deal with. I hear the hiss in all 5 speakers (or both fronts when in regular stereo mode). It's most noticable during quiet / silent parts of the CD tracks. Any idea what the problem may be and what I can do to fix it? Could it be a power issue? I had an old powerstrip, but now I'm using an RCA "home theater" power strip that has a noise filter, etc. Probably not ideal, but I didn't notice any difference with it (and only my DVD player and receiver plugged into it). I have tried with no other components turned on (TV, etc.). Could it be the Denon? If so, what should I do? Contact Denon? Could it be speaker wires? I'm using 14 guage wire from Home Depot (I know, not great stuff). I may get some good wire to try, but I'm afraid that's not it. Aside from the static at higher volumes (it can still go way higher), it sounds very good. When watching a DVD, I didn't notice the hiss, but I wasn't listening for it as much then... This system is all brand new, and I've just been testing it out. I think I even heard a few pops and clicks as well, but that may have been my imagination... Thanks in advance for advice, --Kyle

Hearing Hiss Hey all, I now have my Denon 3802 plus Klipsch reference series (RF3 II) 5.1 set (no sub yet though). Anyway, when playing CDs through my DVD player's optical output (or my old CD player's RCA output), I hear hiss (or static?) at moderately high volumes (starts around -22 on the volume dial). It's enough to make me sick that I spent this much money and have hiss / static to deal with. I hear the hiss in all 5 speakers (or both fronts when in regular stereo mode). It's most noticable during quiet / silent parts of the CD tracks. Any idea what the problem may be and what I can do to fix it? Could it be a power issue? I had an old powerstrip, but now I'm using an RCA "home theater" power strip that has a noise filter, etc. Probably not ideal, but I didn't notice any difference with it (and only my DVD player and receiver plugged into it). I have tried with no other components turned on (TV, etc.). Could it be the Denon? If so, what should I do? Contact Denon? Could it be speaker wires? I'm using 14 guage wire from Home Depot (I know, not great stuff). I may get some good wire to try, but I'm afraid that's not it. Aside from the static at higher volumes (it can still go way higher), it sounds very good. When watching a DVD, I didn't notice the hiss, but I wasn't listening for it as much then... This system is all brand new, and I've just been testing it out. I think I even heard a few pops and clicks as well, but that may have been my imagination... Thanks in advance for advice, --Kyle BTW, this is the radio station I currently have tuned in on the FM tuner in the receiver. This message has been edited by KyleY on 04-24-2002 at 08:30 AM