[Cornwall and solid states]

23 hours ago, mdm7eb said:

Entering the fray here (maybe foolishly). I think it is prudent to acknowledge the limits of knowing and ability to make definitive casual claims. Making a causal claim (which in my mind is required before saying x is better than y) is exceedingly difficult. Of course, we are entitled to our preferences, but we should be clear the limits of what a preference denotes. The task of saying x is better than y becomes even more difficult when you are on the bleeding age of the state of the art, which for the most part, is where we all live in this hobby/forum. 

 

Almost all of academia (both the hard and social sciences) is focused on research design and methodologies that allows the testing/validation of causal claims. I think it is also helpful to remember the study of sound and how it is perceived  is called psychoacoustics. The point being, psychology plays such an important role when it comes to human perception. Concepts such as confirmation basis, placebo effect, endowment effect, among others are real and cloud our ability to make casual claims, or in other words, to say a Klipsch Cornwall III does not sound as good as a Klipsch Cornwall IV. To even make that argument, we would have to define and all agree on what does "sound better" even mean. A difficult task indeed. 

 

Don't get me wrong, when I can, I plan to upgrade my Forte III speakers to the latest Cornwall and I am sure I will "perceive" a noticeable difference -- but I want to be clear about, I would not be able to make the claim the Cornwall sounds "better" than than the Forte -- only that I prefer it. To say x sounds better than y, again, we would need to define what "better" means and carefully articulate what dimension of "better" we are describing and comparing (I think sometimes what we really mean, x sounds different than y and I prefer that difference). Then we could test those claims by designing and administering an experiment, including conducting  a sufficient number of trails that rise to the level of statistical significance (n>30 at least), and then see what the data shows to see if our claims are indeed valid. 

 

I am not about that. This is a hobby for me and I listen for pleasure and enjoyment. I do, however, think it is helpful to bring some rationality to the conversation, particularly when making claims of superiority.   

 

On the amplifier front, all the above applies. While I will agree you will notice the difference between speakers (room/speaker interaction also plays a huge role which I will not address) one is less likely to notice a difference between amplifiers if they are properly compared using a rigorous and scientific methodology. Why? Almost any modern amplifier (and even a lot of vintage amplifiers) are designed to specifications that beyond the limits of human audibility. Think S/N ratio, distortion %, and other design characteristics. The same holds true for digital audio. As we all know, humans perceive louder as better, and it is important that is accounted for when making comparisons. For example, does a more powerful amplifier allow for greater dynamic range/headroom and the perceived increase in dynamics (louder) is the reason we think amplifier x sounds better than amplifier y? 

 

I will note, I have a McIntosh tube amp and solid state preamp. They cost multiples of  electronics that are equally technical competent. Why do I have them then? Is it irrational on my part? That would be the case if I truly believed is was purely for sonic reasons and not those of aesthetics, build quality, prestige, and in my case also nostalgia (for the tube amp anyways). All of these reasons also effect my perception of sound, and I probably believe my McIntosh gear does sound better (when in reality, I probably can't tell the difference). The important point though is, they make me happy -- which is beyond the limit of science (at least in my view) and that to me is what really matters. 

 

Have I tested this theory? No. Again, not a scientist and I don't enjoy these elements of the hobby (in part because I am not capable of conducting experiments with the necessary rigor to derive beneficial knowledge/wisdom) -- I am in it to enjoy the music. But, I am fully aware of the power of my mind and its ability to influence my perception limiting my ability to make causal claims and/or definitive judgements of superiority (and folks have won noble prizes proving this is in fact the case).

 

To the OP, I doubt you can go wrong either way. At the end of the day, both speakers are likely better than 99% of all other speakers out there. I would spring for the Cornwall IV, but I am sure the Cornwall III is also great. We all have tradeoffs to negotiate and only you can decide what value judgements you will make to help you navigate those tradeoffs. I would also agree, listening is still valuable -- the more high quality information (read first hand) you can gather when weighing a decision is always helpful! 

 

Anyways, let's all keep having fun, enjoy the tunes, and when the fancy strikes us -- piss off the neighbors. 

 

 

 

Agreed... "My perception of sound" and all that it encompasses to attain it... at that point, if you like what you hear, thats all that matters.

[Chorus II - Sound damping - too much?]

The 1” foam I’m using is from Parts Express. Sonic Barrier 1” Acoustic Foam. It has an adhesive backing but it didn’t stick very well so I used a few 1/4” staples (the original foam was stapled as well) to secure it. I may leave it as I now have it because it’s much better than what was originally inside. Easier to add more if needed. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. 

[Chorus II - Sound damping - too much?]

 I’ve decided to update my Chorus II's  - Crites Crossovers & tweeters already done, I’ve made new component gaskets , sealed all inside joints and updated the damping with 1" acoustic foam on the sides and tops of the cabinets - (I bought them with pink fiberglass insulation already in the cabinets and will be removing it). Instead, I was thinking of adding denim insulation above the woofer to fill the top area.  Is that too much? Can you over do it with sound damping and significantly affect the sound in a bad way?

 

Thanks!

[CHORUS II - Sound Damping?]

Thanks for all the information everyone. Since I had previously updated the crossovers & tweeters and now have the Passives out (and like many others now spending more time at home) I’ve decided to complete the updates on these speakers. I’ve taken all the components out and made new gaskets, sealed all the inside joints. The cabinets are in excellent condition and are seemingly very solid (no bracing needed at this time). BUT - the previous owner added pink insulation in the top of the cabinets which I can appreciate sound wise. However, I’m not a fan of the fiberglass fibers laying around inside so I’m looking for other options (foam?) to possibly replace the insulation with. The original grey foam (one wall covered and a partial wall and the top covered) is still intact. I was looking at melamine foam but it’s very expensive especially for the amount I would need. Any less expensive suggestions would be appreciated. 
 

Thanks again!

[CHORUS II - Sound Damping?]

Thanks for the info. Hmm hadn’t thought about dynamat to the horns.  I have sealed and braced the cabinets to my stacked NLAs and it made a huge improvement. I’ll have to look for pics of bracing on the CH2. 
 

Thanks again!

[CHORUS II - Sound Damping?]

Im working on updates to my CHORUS II's. I have added Crites crossovers and titanium tweeters, fiberglass insulation in the top of the cabinets and dynamat on the woofer baskets.  Would I gain any benefit from putting Dynamat on the basket of my Passives? 

 

Thanks!