AKosc

Oh and regarding the topic that originally started this conversation, even though I crossover my 8000f at 100hz, you were totally right! I use the 600m as my surround backs, and placed them on top of my 8000fs as a test, cut down the signal below 100hz, and STILL the 8000f sounded much much better than the 600m above 100hz. Wider soundstage, better mid bass. The 600m are still great surround back speakers though.

Update: Took a while, but I have finally installed the subs. Against previous plans, I did NOT go with a DBA and eight Subwoofers but a Single Bass Array with four in front and a Rockwool Sonorock Baffelwall in the back, because I thought it would be sufficient. And it was. I built the subwoofer out of cheap MDF plates, glued and screwed them together and installed the four 15 inch Dayton Audio Ultimax chassis. Costs: Around 1000$ for the subwoofers, 1200$ for the 3600W amplifier. This is less than the price of my single (!) SVS Pb16 ultra that I had before. That sub is a monster with insane deepbass and max output. So how well does my 1000$ SBA hold up to the reference subwoofer? Not an easy task. As you can see in the graph there is less than a five db fluctuation in my frequency response between 17 and 100 hz. This really is as good as it's ever gonna get. I am so happy to finally have a more or less scientific bass experience, I mean look at the graph, it's pretty much flat. The graph in Room Eq Wizard is set to show 40-90db, which is a rather unforgiving setting. I have seen people out there claiming they have a "flat" response and in reality the curve is totally stretched horizontally, making a 15db variance look rather flat, although it is not. All the suckouts, modes, nulls in my room are gone. My 3500$ SVS was not even near that flat response, I had a huge 25db suckout at 50hz and modes from 30hz downwards. In term of output, and this might be surprising, the four 15" do closely match the one 16" Pb 16 chassis, so it is again absolutely ridiculous what one 16" from SVS was capable of. So from 35hz downwards, I'd say it's a draw, maybe the four 15" have 95% the output the SVS had, and 90% of the output in extremely deep bass down 20hz, but most LFE tracks don't dig that deep and the ones that do only occasionally. But I could be imagining this, perhaps because the SVS had ports and I could literally feel the air coming towards me. Still, sound pressure is pretty much equal. They both could bring my house down. I tested all the LFE classics like Blade Runner 2049 and Aquaman, Godzilla etc. - it's a draw. From 35hz upwards and for music, it's not even close. The four enclosed boxes have tighter, faster bass, and with the suckout gone, kickbass Is now equally as loud as the rest of the frequencies. I do understand this is up to the room, and that theoretically the PB16 plays kickbass just as tight and loud, but in reality, the room is soo much more important, and It just simply was not possible to get that frequency response with one subwoofer. Don't place your subwoofers just on the floor! Have a baffle wall in the back (60-80cm thick)! Place four subwoofers in a grid (1/4 room length, 1/4 room height)! Enjoy a flat frequency response I understand this is not a very realistic scenario for living room home theater enthusiast, putting subwoofers in an grid and having a Bafflewall in the back, but for everyone wanting a scientific experience and thinking about switching to a dedicated home theatrer room, I'd strongly recommend this approach!

Thats nice to get more people to know about this very complicated, but sophisticated method of bass management. It’s not that popular outside of Germany. In my opinion, it is by far the smartest solution out there, unfortunately not very practical for living rooms and also rather expensive. I have a Mono DBA in mind, and as you said right, you practically get the same result with 2 drivers per grid (4 total) as with 8. In theory. This measurements are made in a hypothetical perfectly rectangular shaped space, where reflections come back perfectly mirrored, which is rarely the case in real life. I have like I said a notch in my room, and a window on my back wall. All these little imperfections can have influence on how effective a DBA works. Therefore, with 4 drivers each, positioning them at 1/4 room length/height, this practically makes the entire front wall a single subwoofer making it a super even soundwave, and reflections are hitting the first reflection point equally in time. But yeah, I get your first reaction (8?? is this guy nuts), but actually, it is not that much. Again, 4 are absorbing, so you only hear 4 of them. Secondly, people underestimate the power in bass output the room gains them, through modes and peaks. Without any extreme reflections, you loose a lot of power, resulting in a more accurate, but thinner sounding image. To get that max output back, 8 sounds, for many reasons as I stated above, the perfect number Maybe you too are interested in such a system (providing you have an enclosed listening room, preferably rectangular shaped) I‘ll keep you up to date!

After seeing this video, the dual subs really only got rid of the extreme suck outs, there is still a 30db difference from 30hz to 80hz. Kick bass from 50-100hz gets absolutely drowned by deep bass, this is absolutely unacceptable. here are some measurements on DBA variations (it is in German, but the graphs speak for themselves): http://hannover-hardcore.de/infinity_classics/!!!/Alternative DBA-Anordnungen.pdf Just to clarify, a two subwoofer setup is no Double Bass Array. DBA means there is a subwoofer wave coming from the front, and when the wave hits the back wall, the back subs play with delay the reflected sound simultaneously, but phase inverted to cancel out the reflected sound, hence, the reflections are actively canceled out. With no subs in the back, it really does not matter a lot how many subs are in front, as long as you don't have subwoofers in the back or a baffle wall who absorbs the bass waves. If you take a look at this Youthman guy, there is a blank wall in the back, which will never result in an even bass response. But yeah, I will most likely keep The towers and cut a hole into the notch on the front wall to place the tower further to the right, not ideal, but that's how it is.

Yes I can and I will, thanks for the advice, still there Is a notch on the side of my front-stage, and I need to get the subs on 1/4 room length, 1/4 height each for a proper Double Bass Array. So the question still stands, how similar could the 600m perform if not equally as good, compared to the bigger brothers? Thanks for your reply, but I really do know what I need and to get a proper Double Bass Array set up, you should have at least 2, preferably 4 subwoofers each in front and at the back, positioned at 1/4 room length/height. It is not about output for me, its about a flat frequency response. With a DBA Array I am able to get rid of all my Room modes and cancellations. So IT IS actually just 4 subs that I am hearing, the ones in the back are actively absorbing the reflections that are coming from the back wall.

I plan on installing eight 15" Subwoofers, but my RP-8000f Towers are blocking the subwoofer placement because of their size. Can I swap the 8000f with the 600m and get the exact same performance from 100hz upwards? Everything below 100hz will be handled by the Subwoofer, so actually I really don't need those big towers. But again, I don't want to compromise on Mid- and high frequency performance, how do they compare above 100hz? Thanks in Advance.

Hi, I am currently thinking about upgrading to a Dolby Atmos configuration (currently running a 7.1), but I am not sure if I should do four overhead speakers instead of two. I know that more is always better, but first I would have to buy an external stereo amplifier for the 10th and 11th channel, and second the two overhead rows infront and behind the seating position would only be six feet away due to my small room. Would it still be worth it to go with four overhead speakers? The photos show my setup and where the overhead speaker should be in optimal position (Dolby recommendations on their website) Thanks in advance.