porsche987
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Posts posted by porsche987
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On 6/15/2020 at 2:07 PM, porsche987 said:On 6/24/2020 at 8:54 AM, VDS said:
Hi, I got a little confused reading replies, but you mention perhaps wanting to sell your Klipsh Forte’s? If so, I am interested. Please let me know if you are ready. Thank you, Ted Thompson
Yes I am interested in selling PM me and I can give you more details as well as pictures.
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yes I am interested in selling. PM me and I will give you details
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16 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:
If you do end up going to Cincinnati, be sure to visit Jungle Jim’s. Check it out on the web, it is a great place. No affiliation…
I have a pick up large enough for whatever
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3 minutes ago, wstrickland1 said:
I am on the verge of a major downsizing (in terms of space and "things") and will most likely be dumping a lot of gear I swore I'd never sell. most notably LaScala II and Palladium P37 speakers, a couple of newer McIntosh pieces and a couple of VPI tables.
Where are you located?
I am in northern Indiana. Let me know what you have for sale and where you are located. I am retired so can travel a bit.
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I am new to the forum but by no means new to the hobby. I have been an avid audiophile for over 40 years (I am 68). The list of equipment I have owned is extensive. Many hi end products form Audio Research, CJ, Quicksilver, Mcintosh, Vandersteen, Thiel, Dahlquist, Magnepan, Roland and on and on. Vintage form Marantz classics, Advent, EPI and Yamaha NS1000's. I was one that always turned my nose up to Klipsch. I got so burned out on chasing the elusive that I walked away from the hobby some 10 years ago and sold all of my stuff and used the room for home theater. Then I retired a year ago and started watching YouTube. Checking in on the latest. I decided to build a moderate system in a new dedicated room in my basement. A large room, 20x28x9. Started with some moderate Cambridge, Wharfedale Linton Heritage, Rega table and retaining all of my significant LP and CD collection. I started streaming. Room boomed seriously so sent room plans to GIK acoustics and fully treated my room with their traps/reflectors. WOW....single biggest improvement I have ever made to a system! Thought I would try some modest upgrades. Ended with a full Schiit system of Aegir monos, Freya +, Bifrost 2 and Mani phono pre. Still using the Linton's. Also have a vintage pair of Rogers LS 3/A's I bought in the 70's. I became intrigued by high efficiency speakers via YouTube. I tried a pair of Zu Audio Omen DW's. Disappointing although the people at Zu are awesome. Returned them. Made a trip to a dealer here in northern Indiana and heard Forte 3's Heresy 3's and an older model of Khorns. Very unimpressed but a horrid setup on all parts. Made a trip to southern Michigan and heard Heresy 4's and RF7 mk 3's Better but not stellar. Great dealer, good setup but a bit crowded display. I was intrigued enough that I looked up this forum and joined. Seeking opinions on Forte, Heresy, Cornwall and RF7's. A fellow member that lives close graciously offered to invite me to hear his system. He has a large collection! WOW! This has been the single most enlightening and spectacular audition of audio I have experienced! I heard four separate sets of LaScalas (series one and two as well as commercial), three sets of Heresy's 1, 4 and commercial. And a pair of Khorns. All driven by various vintage tubes (Scott and Fisher I believe). The Khorns were devastatingly good. They were, however, highly modified with virtually all stock parts replaced. Detail, soundstage, transparency, dynamics and any other audiophile adjective you can use were all phenomenal. I was dumbfounded!
At the same time as I joined I found, via a post here, a pair of Forte 1's for sale that were literally 2 miles from me. I very briefly auditioned and purchased on the spot. They are pristine given their age. One owner, oiled walnut, all original packaging and other than a dent on one passive dust cap near perfect. Brought them home with great excitement only to be initially very disappointed. Very dynamic but lacking definition, soundstage definition and a horridly boomy bass. Played with placement which is so untraditional for me as they require a close rear wall location. On advise here, I replaced tweeter diaghprams and crossovers from Crites. Repaired dust cap. Dampened horns with Dynamat. Much improved but still disappointing, I am listing them for sale if anyone interested? Upper bass and lower midrange seem opaque and congested. Room? Traps? I do not know. I removed traps behind speakers and things got much worse. Woofers seem to be in perfect working order and lowest frequencies are well defined. Regardless, they are for sale.
So now, after my incredible audition I am on the look for my next speaker and it WILL be Klipsch. Used Khorns? Cannot afford new. Used LaScala's? Again $$. New Cornwall IV's. Found a B stock pair for $4700. Still more than I would like to spend but will do if necessary. I do plan to head to Indy soon to audition all new Klipsch models at Ovation. Perhaps that will help me decide. I am not at all opposed to buying a used pair of Khorns or Lascalas but I am very picky about finish and aesthetics. They have to be walnut and cabinets must be nearly new in appearance. I am not opposed to doing upgrades and driver replacements. I sure wish I could justify new Khorns but I swore I would not go $$$$ crazy like I have in the past. Any and ALL advise is welcomed and appreciated. I am grateful I have found this forum as it is a wealth of information.
I finally want to extend a warm thank you to the member that so graciously invited me to his home during these difficult times and did an awesome job in introducing me to the wonder of Klipsch. That experience has changed this audiophiles life like no other. Best I have ever heard and I have heard many!
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So I have posted before that I purchased an immaculate pair of Forte I's in oiled walnut. I have installed Crites crossovers, tweeters and dampened the horns with Dynamat. The improvements were not subtle. BUT, I am still having some lower midrange upper bass issues. One note, muddy, resonant might be a good description. I have played, extensively, with distance from rear wassail, toe in and tilt. Image depth is better but still lacking compared to my other speakers. Image width is good and solid. YET, I am addicted to the dynamics, image size and overall "liveness" to the sound. My other speakers also have a better defined (transparent?) high end.
My questions are, what will I gain by moving to one of the aforementioned speakers? The Forte's I have are very much enjoyable but they are not my end game speakers by a long shot. I will assuredly be selling them in the very near future. All boxes and cabinets are very very good to excellent as are the grille cloths. I also have the original crossovers and tweeter diagrams. I am going to a fellow members home tomorrow to their his Lacalas and K'horns so I hope to gain much knowledge on better Klipsch speakers.
Love any advise you guys can give!
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3 hours ago, Alexander said:
I can see how the stamped baskets can 'ring' when in free air but I am curious. Since you will already have the passive & woofer out - place each face down on a flat surface to simulate being mounted. Using slight pressure pushed down on the magnet tap the stamped basket to see how much 'ringing' you get out of them.
Yes they still ring certainly not as much but all of the drivers, horns included have a resonance. The damping compound works though.
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I have checked both speakers for leaks and although I cannot detect any I believe they exist. Upon removing one woofer I noticed a folded gasket that was not fully enclosing the basket. Also found one loose grille fastener that could be removed easily. So, my plans now underway are to do the following;
- Seal all grille holes.
- Replace all gaskets with weatherstripping.
- Dampen the driver baskets and midrange horn with Dynamat. The woofer and passive baskets ring like a bell! Still cannot believe that speakers of this price do not have cast baskets. They appear to be quite cheap.
- Dampen the cabinets with 3/4 inch Sonic Barrier from PE. The cabinets have only one brace at the bottom, resonate like all get out and have to be a negative factor.
- Install Crites crossovers and tweeter diagrams.
- Perhaps create a brace of some kind to stiffen the cabinet.
Hopefully will have all of this completed by weeks end and able to listen. My initial thoughts are the same. Wonderful dynamics, beautiful cabinets, realistic soundstage size and a certain palpability I have never experienced before in a home speaker. BUT, the lower midrange and upper bass are distinctly muddy lacking definition. When there is no content in these frequency ranges the definition is there but when notes play in those frequencies it definitely contaminates the clarity. The image depth is somewhat shallow and although I do get a sense of air in the recording I know there is much more there. By my somewhat experienced listening skills it certainly sounds like a resonance interfering with the rest of the sound. Hopefully my plans will diminish or eradicate this. I so very much want this to work as they do posses a certain magic that I find addictive. I look forward to hearing a near by member system of LaScala's!
Thanks to all for your opinions an Dif you think I am going in a bad direction let me know!
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3 hours ago, porsche987 said:
I did not check all but did a random check on both and they were all extremely tight. But, good question as the muddy or flabby range I am hearing could be easily explained as an air leak. I will research further this weekend and am hoping I get my crossovers and tweeters today. When I do I will fully disassemble check for any potential air leaks as well as do some internal damping of the cabinets and baskets. I still remain amazed that Klipsch uses stamped baskets! Just doesn't seem fitting of the cost of the finished product.
Checked all and less than an eight of a turn to some but not all. Listened again, moved around a bit and the problem is still there. Replaced with Wharfedale Linton and although they are warm sounding the problem goes away. Perplexing. Just an FYI the Lintons are smaller sounding, airer, much less dynamic although they are rated at 90db/spl at 4-6 ohms.
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thanks all. I did two coats of Watco natural yesterday and they look fantastic! I honestly think these could almost ve sold as NOS! Now if I can just get the low frequency issues figured out! I will most likely fine steel wool them and add one final coat.
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13 hours ago, John Chi-town said:
Stupid question, but have you removed the speaker grills and checked to see that all screws holding horns and bass are tight, as well as the passive radiators?
John
I did not check all but did a random check on both and they were all extremely tight. But, good question as the muddy or flabby range I am hearing could be easily explained as an air leak. I will research further this weekend and am hoping I get my crossovers and tweeters today. When I do I will fully disassemble check for any potential air leaks as well as do some internal damping of the cabinets and baskets. I still remain amazed that Klipsch uses stamped baskets! Just doesn't seem fitting of the cost of the finished product.
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If I can tame or eradicate this low frequency issue I'd be onto something that would be incredible.
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14 minutes ago, John Chi-town said:
Glad to hear you are on the right track! Hopefully the crossover rebuild will take away the muddy bass. The Ti tweeter will help smooth things out as well. Keep in mind Klipsch speakers overall are probably the most revealing simply by design. Garbage in, garbage out, from a recording perspective. Poorly mastered CD's etc. will really shine with all their glory through all Heritage designs.
The forte line is considered among the best in the Heritage line in the sense of a well balanced speaker. Cornwall I-III, will have less midrange, but a more robust bass. LaScala, great mid and highs, but lacks bass. Think 1-2 subs in the mix with that route. I have owned my forte II since I unboxed them 28 years ago. The only Heritage that has come out since then that I would replace with is the new Cornwall IV. However they are $6K a pair. Will wait a couple years till they are available on used market for half or less. The new Cornwall IV INMHO is like a forte III on steroids. Finally gave it the larger mid range it needed for decades.
Remember as PWK stated we live in the mid-range.
Regards,
John
I've listened now for a few hours and played with placement. Toe in, distance from back and side wall and while I am very impressed with the dynamics and the realism I continue
tp have significant reservations about the low end. The deepest bass seems well articulated but the lower registers of the male
voice and similar frequencies seem to either resonance or muddle the rest. Almost
like a resonance. Hoping the crossovers, new gaskets, new tweeters will help. I also suspect that the cabinets have some distinct resonance. They certainly feel it tactically. I've ordered some no-res Nd dynamat thinking that may help. Perhaps dampening the cabinet and woofer frames could help? It is not my room not
source material. I so want to hear both Cornwall IV's and LaScalas
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28 minutes ago, John Chi-town said:
How did the repositioning and playing with toe in work out? Any improvement?
Regards,
John
OK, I am a convert. Serious improvement when 12" from the wall and straight ahead. Bass is definitely better and no real compromise in imaging. All arid better. There still seems to be some resonance in the upper bass/lower mid. Just gets a bit muddy. BUT, I am very impressed and will assuredly look forward to the improvements the crossovers make. Also wondering of doing some damping to the cabinet with a no res type product? I will, no doubt, be moving up in the Klipsch line. I am just wondering how large an improvement can be had with either a Cornwall or LaScala? Hum, maybe some tubes too?
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I just purchased a mint pair of Forte 1's. They are walnut and the scabinets are pristine other than feeling a bit dry and very little sheen. I am an experienced wood worker and can certainly treat these in whatever way is best but before I do I would like to ask others opinions. Mu inclination is to just use an oil treatment like Watco natural. Any thoughts out there?
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18 hours ago, jimjimbo said:
I mostly agree with John above with regard to moving them and a new crossover, but honestly I think you're going to have a hard time with the Forte performance in that room. I commend you for your effort on the acoustic treatment (which most people don't do), but I believe that there is too much there for your passives to perform properly. I would also guess that your subs are contributing to the problem. Have you listened without the subs engaged? I would not expect a "night and day" difference when you get the new crossovers because although they will be new caps, the electrical design will be the same as OEM. There will certainly be some difference, but most importantly, IMHO you need to get the room and setup figured out. I'll send you a PM with my phone later today.
I either missed it or have not received your number. My email is tball@tredittire.com
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jim
1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:I mostly agree with John above with regard to moving them and a new crossover, but honestly I think you're going to have a hard time with the Forte performance in that room. I commend you for your effort on the acoustic treatment (which most people don't do), but I believe that there is too much there for your passives to perform properly. I would also guess that your subs are contributing to the problem. Have you listened without the subs engaged? I would not expect a "night and day" difference when you get the new crossovers because although they will be new caps, the electrical design will be the same as OEM. There will certainly be some difference, but most importantly, IMHO you need to get the room and setup figured out. I'll send you a PM with my phone later today.
I can pull the traps easily but they have made such a huge difference with everything else. Soundstage, bass clarity and imaging improved by an immense amount with the traps. I have been an audiophile most of my 68 years and I have never made as large of an improvement. The depth and sense of air I get with my other speakers is incredible.I am not using the subs and have not since I bought the Forte's. I figured that I should get a handle on them alone first. I look forward to talking! I will move them way back and pull the traps directly behind them tonight.
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John, will try that tonight thanks!
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more later thanks guys!
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new crossovers ordered!
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unfortunately I cannot upload my pictures they say I can only download 3MB and my first picture was almost that. The tags on the back say; type; FOR WO RV, Serial; 8827072. Also has the numbers 277/79 and (0421) (0516). What do we know from these?
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tough to move them as they are in basement. So a couple of questions. Where might I find gaskets? the surrounds from the outside look to be in fine condition. No cracking and cones move freely. I will look much closer though. I have not had any speakers with passives in this room. Actually, never had a speaker with a passive radiator. Only other speakers I have had in this room besides the Lintons and Rogers were a pair of Zu audio Dirty Weekends. Very disappointing. I am going to try to post pictures now and as I have listened for another hour plus I am getting a better grasp pn this. I can say that the lower kids and lows certainly have a wooziness to them. Lacking definition and almost sounding resonant. No rattle or distortion noticeable. Jimjimbo, I am in Bristol (just east of Elkhart by a few miles) how close are you and maybe we can get together?
Thanks all!!
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OK, got my Forte 1's last night and did a brief listen. Approximately 30 minutes. Listened to some Patricia Barber, Diana Krall, Dire Straits, Joni Mitchell, Fourplay and Zeppelin. A few others as well. Initial impression is not good. Flat soundstage, slightly muddy or ill defined bass, good dynamics, and not the greatest detail retrieval . Speakers were approximately 3 feet from back wall, 2-3 feet from side and the room is fully treated with GIK acoustic trap/reflectors. System is;
Schiit Aegir monos
Schiit Freya+ pre
Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC
Schiit Mani phono pre
Technics 1200GR table with Ortofon BLue
Cables were Kimber KCAG interconnects (balanced) and DIY Mogami speaker
I will do some extensive listening today/tonight and work with placement a bit. The speakers are in incredible condition. Actually amazing for their age. Grilles fully intact, veneer is pristine and all original boxes and packaging. Any advice on how to get the best sound out of these is appreciated. I would also like to know what improvements can be had with the Crites crossover and tweeter diaphragm. I will probably do both as well as look at the internal bracing. Initial impressions are very disappointing. Certainly no where close to all the accolades Klipsch Heritage speakers have recently received. And, I will say a recent audition of the Heresy IV provided very good sound. I will shoot some pictures today and post later today or tonight.
Thought? Help?
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Skelt, will do. I have rebuild and modified many original large Advents, have a wood shop and have refinished many speakers. I am hoping they are oiled. they had a very low gloss finish and other than a very slight water spot from a glass leads me to think they are oiled. I will post many pictures after I get them. Probably on Thursday. I am so pumped to play with these!
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LaScala II, McIntosh, VPI, etc. Plug & Play
in Garage Sale
Posted
I am interested on the LaScala's but you are a long way from northern Indiana. Given freight costs what is your bottom on them? Jim speaks very highly of you. You can also PM me and I will share my email address.