Fidelio
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Posts posted by Fidelio
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On 5/15/2021 at 11:26 PM, Jetmo said:
I absolutely agree that an external DAC improves the sound greatly, versus just outputting form my iMac
forgot to ask you, what DAC did you use?
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On 5/15/2021 at 11:26 PM, Jetmo said:
where my MQA enabled DAC will play into headphones but not the Fives
This is interesting. How do you know this? did you listen clear difference on the sound or did you messure both?
How external source did or did not affect the Fives sound it's really beyond me. My bluesound 2i finally arrive, so I tested today via optical to the fives and it sound amazing. Although doesn't change much the tonality regarding my former source via RCA (wich lead me think it's the built in DAC working for both), it does make a real change in terms of soundstage. The volume it's also stronger, it's sound more powerful but not only that, the resolution it's way better on higher volume. I could walk arround the house listening really good, with a lot of details, wich it wasn't the case with my former source via RCA (a Fiio M11 pro DAP).
I noted that in Zeos youtube review of the fives, he also used the optical input and his speakers and it sound so amazing, very far from the sound I got out of them at first right out of the box.
I found a this thread where it discussed a similar experience: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/59238-external-dac-into-powered-speakers/
I'm a total neophyte on the audio world, so a lot of what was said in there its beyond me. But it seems to be that it's not so much the DAC what make the diference, but the filters/gain/EQ as you said.
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On 5/13/2021 at 10:49 PM, dcisive said:
all I can say for certain is the Shitt's DAC fed into the Bellari EQ then onto the Fives RCA input for the Phono with the switch set to Line makes a TON of difference making it true HiFi to me as the midrange is no longer stuffy but clear and distinct and the high end opens up a TONE giving air and imaging galore.
I do believe this is true, no doubt about it. I've had this experience too, listening real difference between digital sources (hence DACs) and trough different inputs on the fives. There's a lot of people also claiming reaching out sustancial improvement using external phono stages for their turntables.
How could this be possible if everything end up on the same blender before the output? Maybe I need to dig more into DSP functioning, but this is a mistery for me.
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25 minutes ago, ChrisK said:
Maybe attempting to get "analogue" sound out of powered speakers and digital sources is not an easy task
I totally agree with this. The fives do sound good, but not great out of the box IMO. They need to be improved, adding a sub to clean up the midrange and allow the trebel details to show up. They also need EQ to sound great, as many users has been doing. The difficult to get analog sound as you mentioned, it's another caveat. They do sound kind of metallic sometimes.
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2 hours ago, Fido said:
Do the Fives have “no way” to bypass their built in DAC
It's seems so, even if your feeding in a signal through RCA line input. At least this is what Klipsch's support team told me.
In my case, I do find differences feeding the Fives from the same source throught RCA line input, optical or USB inputs.
I'm totally newbie in this hobby, but up to now i've found out that "external DACs in powered speakers with DSP" seems to be an open to debate subject, leaning towards "no way to bypass build in DSP/DAC system".
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1 hour ago, Fido said:
I ended up dropping Tidal and now use Amazon HD and a Denefrips DAC with the Node 2i and it sounds fantastic and more analogue than Tidal sounded thru the Node 2i with its built in MQA capable Dacs
This is a very fair point. I do think we're maybe too obsessed with MQA and get the best out of Tidal, that our gear options begin to be very constrained. Thanks for this advice, and I definitely will taking it into consideration.
Now regarding the fives and Tidal use, the main question of this thread seems to be not a subject at all. Any source you're feeding the fives, or any input you do it throught, the signal will be processed by the internal DSP/DAC built in on it. So, according to what was said by Klipsch's support team, there's no "better way" to use Tidal on this speakers, let alone to unfold MQA files.
You can use chromecast audio, your PC, a dedicated streamer, a cheap or an expensive DAP, or even put a highend DAC in between. Everything will deliver the same sound in the end.
I also got a bluesound node 2i on the way, so i'm kind of disappointed it will make no difference at the final output sound that a crappy device could do.
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If anyone is still interested, I put in contact with klipsch's support team and they told me that the fives do not support MQA in any possible way, even when your source could be able to full decode this files. This would be because any signal feeded to the fives, by any of its inputs, its always processed for the built in DSP/DAC system. It can't be bypassed in any way.
If anyone have different info about it, would be so nice to hear.
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5 hours ago, dcisive said:
As for the concept of a "bypass" understand that one is feeding the DAC from the Optical output of their flat screen which is quite high end pure. You are not feeding it the HDMI hence dealing with in speaker processing, which is a good thing. So the pure Optical output goes right into the DAC and is cleanly processed into a analog signal, then on to the Bellari EQ's RCA inputs. Then out the Bellari's RCA outputs into the back of the Fives "Phono" input but make sure you switch that flip switch at that input to the "Input" and not leave it on Phono.
I can understand this process. But in klipsch's support guys opinion, even when one is feeding the five trough RCA line input, it's not the analog converted signal from an external DAC what you're hearing. Any signal, feeded to the fives either through digital inputs or through RCA line, it's always processed for the DSP/DAC system, first into a digital signal then into an analog one by the work of the built in DAC. So any analog signal inputed necesarally go into DSP to once again be converted in digital data, before the built in DAC make it an analog signal again.
I have a lots o doubts about this, as I've noted very clear differences when a same source is connected throug RCA or USB by example.
I was very precise asking about this. They even told me that MQA files are not supported in any way by the spekers for the same reasons, even when your source can full decode that kind of files.
Any way, the good news is that they confirm me that de EQ featur will definitly be developed sometime in the future. These are his exact words: "I’m sorry, that information is not currently available. But yes I know for sure we are getting the EQ feature in a near future Firmware update as well as other updates, But don't have an exact date for that"
So I hope this bring a little hope to anyone waiting for that so needed feature.
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15 hours ago, dcisive said:
I wouldn't go with a lessor DAC then the Modi
I got a bluesound node 2i streamer on it's way. It's supposed to have a pretty good dac built in, so I thinking using it as a preamp for TV and other sources. Do you thing this could do the same job as your modi placed before the Bellari?. It worries me Klipsch's statement about the fives built in DAC don't be able to be bypassed in any way.
With all this limitations, I'm on my knees for that unfamous EQ app, but i'm also starting to lose hope on it.
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On 4/30/2021 at 3:26 PM, dcisive said:
The Fives themselves have a characteristic roll off that begins just below 60hz gradually dropping off quite rapidly below 50hz. Sure, they have some response down in the 40hz region (open E on a bass guitar) which imparts some pretty solid bass even without the sub. But WITH a sub like I'm using the SW-100, it has a variable filter which can, when the Fives are plugged into the Sub output, begin a roll off of the Fives as high as 120hz on down. I tend to have it set around 85hz which I find most pleasing as it clears up the mids a tiny bit but allows the sub to take the workload of the lower bass frequencies. There is a 3 way setting for the Fives on their own as you may know. Which allows for a "Flat" then a "Bass Boost" so to speak setting and then the 3rd which is a "Bass Cut" The Bass cut was one many asked for and Klipsch delivered to clean up the muffle in the midrange. Having been an old audiophlle/musician/golden ear for so many years even those settings weren't enough. I ended up getting a Shitt brand DAC and using the Optical output of my Sony Bravia 75" 4K screen feeds the DAC, then into a Bellari brand 4 band EQ and then into the RCA inputs of the Fives. This has literally transformed the sound output of the Fives and SW-100. I've had some very high end systems for audio in the past. I sold high end audio in the 80's and was a loudspeaker factory rep for a while as well, so I understand this transformation. Those Fives came alive beyond belief. I sometimes have to remind me they are little guys but come on like a full sized high end speaker. The tonality, dynamics and sweetness on music I'm very familiar with from the past has blown me away. Without the DAC/EQ combo it frustrated me as it sounded cloudy in the mids and the highs were slightly muted. now there is "Air" and Dimension beyond belief. These suckers image like I never thought I'd hear again. The "Phantom Center Channel" effect is simply astounding. Movies are a unreal experience, let alone the bottom end when there are crashes or explosions and there is NO distortion, just a "You Are There" experience. I highly recommend this DAC/EQ combo to all I'm communicated with on this forum. It turns the Fives into a VERY competitive high end audio experience to be sure. The total cost of that upgrade was only $200 and worth twice or more of that for what it brings to the table. Forget about the HDMI interface it ain't gonna happen with this. But it's NO big deal as when I fire up my TV it turns the speaker system on. Sometimes I have to hit the "Phono" input to get it on but that's NO penalty for the sound quality it delivers. Needless to say you flip the switch on the back of the Fives from Phono to "Input" as I recall to enact this process. I leave the sub on "auto" for sensing when the system is on. Check it out. You'll be glad you did.
Thanks for this, it's really valuable info. I also got a sub for my fives recently. I was trying to buy the RS-120W on a really good price, but amazon cancel my buy. Finally I end up with an entry level Elac 10 inch subwoofer. It's Ok, but it doest'n have any filters or features other than the volume/crossover settings.
The sub sometimes seems too boomy (hence I wanted to find a sweet spot for the crossover), but most of the time the soud really has improved. Much more clean mids and the details on highs has finally appear!. Nevertheless, i'm not totally satisfied yet. I't remains some kind recesion on the mids, like the voices seems distant and not totally opened. The higs are much more there but they seems opaque and metallic, laking air and bright.
EQ seems to be the only solution. I've contemplate your Bellari solution, but also I've been diging into a miniDSP unit. Do yo know something about this?.
I was keen into adding a good DAC too, but I get in contact with Klipsch support team and they tell me there's no way at all to by pass the DAC/DSP system of the five. Any input info has to pass through it.
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On 5/8/2021 at 2:23 PM, dcisive said:
I'm using a Shitt Loki model DAC
Matybe is the "modi" your're talking about? the loki is a 4 band EQ as well
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On 4/23/2021 at 9:25 PM, Fish said:
MQA ?? Ain't that just added distortion, forced on the listener ?
Hi, may you explain?
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Hi everyone,
Hope i'm not to late to the party, also a newbie here trying to bring up the best posible sound out of the fives in general, and especially with tidal.
On 1/8/2021 at 3:44 AM, Marko said:Ok, thank you guys. I'll try the Chromecast
Do you finally go this way? how does it work?
I use a fiio m11 pro as a main digital source. I got it connected to the original brand dock and from there to the usb port in the fives but i'm not satisfied with this solution. As this configuration seems to be using the five's dac, mqa shouldn't be able. The thing is it doesn't seems to improve a lot using the rca line conection.
I found a real quality difference when I stream tidal to a regular chromcast in my tv, and from it through hdmi to the fives. Boy!! the power in that is a real game changer, also seems to be a most fuller and detailed sound. Even though, i'm not sure mqa is really unfolding this way.
Any one can share more info about this?
On 1/7/2021 at 11:21 AM, techguy52 said:If you want MQA support then I would recommend a BlueSound Node 2i.
I'm considering this option, but i'm worry I get the same disapointing output of the fiio dap (it got an impressive mqa support dac set on papper) via rca line. Maybe i'm doing something wrong.
Thanks in advance!
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On 9/28/2020 at 11:31 PM, nathanceb said:
What frequency response do the Klipsch The Fives play if there is a subwoofer involved.
Hi, do you find an answer for this?
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On 4/6/2021 at 2:30 AM, Quiet_Hollow said:
Sourcing material can be a chore I guess
It could be in did, but I think I found the product you refer to. I will try it when the subw arrive.
Thanks!
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11 hours ago, Quiet_Hollow said:
Want my opinion? Seeing as you're getting a subwoofer, stuffing the ports with a chunk of acoustic foam will also help clean up their mid-bass response. That's what I did to achieve the sound in the video below. Wait until the end to hear the difference without any of the tweaking:
That's cool, I just catch your video on youtube a couple of days ago! Thanks for the advice.
Wow, the difference is remarkable. Is there's any inconveniences using this foam? I assume it could be removed any time or the effect is permanent?t. It could be a less expensive solution until (if) they release the eq app.
By the way, I haven't watched Tenet yet. By what I heard on your video, looking forward to do it under this configuration.
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On 3/30/2021 at 6:01 PM, dcisive said:
Just to be clear however regarding what Klipsch may or may not provide regarding a App for EQ. I simply MUST (I repeat MUST) allow the app to alter the DSP inside the electronics of the speaker in such a manner as to set it to adjust your EQ setting and apply them to ALL (I repeat ALL) input signals. eg. from say the HDMI signal) otherwise it is useless. I currently have an EQ app on my Android phone that allows me to EQ any music that is on my phone. The EQ is NOT usable for anything BUT what is on the phone. I sure hope they know this and are doing as I say, allowing it to adjust the DSP in the speaker for ALL inputs. Otherwise my current DAC to EQ to RCA inputs of the Five's will remain a permanent fixture. I'm ok with it if it MUST be. But it would sure be a sad day if Klipsch doesn't do this RIGHT as I described above.
Hi everyone, I'm new here and also new on the "hi-fi" journey.
So glad to find this forum, especially the work @dcisive has been doing to improve the fives sound. I'm another one who find this muddy midrange sound or dark veil quite annoying.
I came to the fives in the search for a soundbar, but even when it was way beyond my initial budge, I choose them because I thought I could fullfil a very postponed desire of a hi quaility audio system for music on this purchase.
I Don't think it was a bad choice. I manage to get a couple of good sources at cut prices (a Nad c715 as a stereo receiver and a fiio m11pro as a streamer) and I've been listening a lot of quality music as I never did before.
Nevertheless, I'm not totally satisfied. Hip hop and electronic music are a true delight to experience, but the voices or even the guitars on rock music seems like to be compressed or lacking bright. Like the sound need a little of fresh air. As others have said, the dialogues on the movies also have this problem.
I tried to use a dac (fiio k5 pro) but it doesn't do much of a difference.
The eq approach give me some hopes, but I wonder if the fives signature isn't quite all for me.
I just get the r-120sw on amazon hopping a sub could help with this problem, but it will only arrives to my country in may-june!.
@dcisive, is there's any chance for you to upload a video with your solution? I'm hopping to get the bellari in the future and that will be very helpful. Thanks in advance.
I really hope this thread help to improve the fives experience for everyone. I'm sorry if my english isn't good enough, but its not my native tongue!
Sort Of Some Fives EQ News
in Home Theater
Posted
This is great news. I got a similar answer from them a couple of weeks ago. Even when they don't go more precise than "soon", it's a good thing they're confirming this is a feature really being working on.
I also asked them about it before, when I just got the speakers, but the answer was a lot more ambiguous without confirming this eq thing could be real.
I got a lot of expectations on this too. If I remember well, I think that in the "Joe n Tell" review of the fives, he said have heard that the app even will include a room correction feature. That will be so good if it's true, and aside a decent amount of bands for EQ, it will really make it work the price it has right now. As for today state, I don't think this speakers should cost more than 500-550 USD top.