picky
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Posts posted by picky
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IMAX
in Home Theater
Hallwalker:
Heck, between news reporters and the weather forecasters I don't know WHOM to believe??
-Picky
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RobHT & SteelersFan:
The reason I claim that a lack-of-power might be perceived is because I run my VSX-49TXi volume control at the -10db setting to get realistic sound while playing DVDs and I would feel a bit un-nerved to run it much beyond that level when considering reference level is 0 db and max-dial is +12db. I'm simply being cautious here folks and leaving some headroom.
As for the 49TXi sounding a bit bright with the Ref 7's, I usually agree with Scott (Orange Peel) but, I must disagree here. Even though my 7's haven't been what I would call, completely broken-in yet, they sound great to me and not really what I would term as "bright". However, I was told by my dealer that if I really wanted the 7's to sound warmer, I should consider a tube amp. Now, that could simply be his (the dealer's) personal preference...or, my own hearing...just I have had my hearing tested and despite being 52, the ears still work great! ...huh? What's that?.....
Thanks for the good words on my HT site. But, "Where are the pics of my finished theater?" Sorry, dude: That's why it's a "construction site!" It won't be finished until the end of this year! Sorry! I will update it with new pictures "when the hammer stops a-swingin'!"
Please do not misunderstand my caution here regarding power. The Pioneer may have what it takes, I just don't want to see you be suprised if it doesn't. The great effeciency of our speakers is a great help, but I don't want to make the asumption of telling you "Yeah! It's great! Pioneer Rules!! Go ahead and spend all that money!" and then find out I gave you bad info!
I will say that I know there are a lot of people out there that detest equalization stuff (and that's okay), but I absolutely LOVE the MCACC setup system in my Pioneer! If you don't wanna go the separates route, perhaps your local Pioneer Elite dealer will let you set up a demo 49TXi in your place for a trial run and see what you think? It's an outstanding rig! It's worth a try! Best of luck!
-Picky
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007:
Yeah, and to think the theater's web site says they have 12,000 watts, but when you get there you find out they actually have over 15,000 watts! SHEESH!
Talk about "Power-Envy!"
We saw their projection room. I'd have to say it is about 35' (W) x 75' (L) x 12' (H) and the IMAX projector is this big, white box that is about the size of three side-by-side fridges. Their equipment racks were ay least 8 feet tall and two were filled top-to-bottom with power amps (could not see what kind)! Techno-overload for sure! The reels of 70mm movie film were at least 5-feet in diameter! Can you say "hernia"? -Picky
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BigBusa:
Wow! That is the first time I've heard "disappointment" and "SDA SRS" mentioned in the same sentence. Shame on you! You have shattered all of my former dreams!
Actually, thanks for your honesty. I'd always wondered what it would have been like to own a pair, other than having no room left in my living room for furniture, that is.As for the ADS L180's, so those are your in the picture? I saw that picture on the web (Vintage Asylum) last week and posted the link in an earlier post, above. No idea they were yours. I totally agree they sounded fantastic, but they were weak-in-the-knees at higher levels.
All: Happy Thanksgiving to those of you who celebrate!
-Picky
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RobHT:
First of all, welcome aboard! I think you'll find there are some outstanding people here in this forum that we all learn from. And though I am not trying to imply that I am one of those people, I do have some information for you that I hope you might benefit from:
Your planned room sounds very nice and it is quite a bit larger than mine: 14'(W) X 26' (D) X 9' (H) versus mine: 10.5'(W) X 19' (D) X 7' (H). Mine is in an older basement, hence the low ceiling.
However, our speaker choices are quite similar: 2 X RF-7, 4 X RS-7, 1 X RC-7, 1 X RSW-12 versus mine: 2 X RF-7, 2 X RS-7, 1 X RC-7, 1 X RSW-15 & 2 X RCW-5s.
I am the proud owner of a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi which is one of the three prospects you mentioned in your post. Although I cannot tell you how the others will perform in your selected space, I can tell you that I love everything about my Pioneer and I have not been disappointed with it, even once, in the year I have owned it. In my small room, it runs my reference series speakers to realistic levels with no hint of distortion or laboring.
Taking all the above information into account, and assuming you are also going to want to hear realistic dynamic representation of music and effects while watching movies, I must tell you that it is my opinion that if you decide to go with a VSX-49TXi, I fear it may disappoint you in that sizible room environment due to a lack of sufficient power. (130 watts into 8 ohms X 7) If it were up to me, I'd recommend going with separate front-end and power amps of a more sizible confiuration or a much larger receiver. Also, not knowing your personal tastes, it is my belief that your single, 12" sub may disappoint you as well in your selected room.
I know this is not good news for you, but I hope it helps make your decision easier.
-Picky
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artto:
You pointed out a VERY profound discovery that we in the automotive interior engineering field have become painfully aware of over the last decade or so: Elimination of the majority of interior noise, always uncovers other annoyances not priviously realized! Such as the way that rear suspension struts are able to "telegraph" noise from the road right into the steel body structure along the strut towers of the truck area and back window region, thereby giving the rear seat occupants a free, live "concert"! Or, the elimination of engine noise reveals wind noise, etc. Thus, the same goes for home and business interiors: the elimination of know annoyances within a room will always reveals things (both good and bad) that we weren't aware of because their sounds were being masked by louder, more prominent sounds. {SIGH!} It never seems to end...........
BTW..the 2' x 2' x 2"-thick Illbruck (Sonex Harmoni) melamine foam ceiling tiles I am using in our suspended ceiling are also available (at an extra charge) with the sound blocking membrane already bonded to the unexposed side of each tile, which saves you some time in applying isolation materials between floors.
Everyone: If you do celebrate Thanksgiving Day, please have a wonderful one!
-Picky
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Flason:
I still have my old pair of ADS L810s. They are safely stored in the garage and one has a blown tweeter, the other has a blown midrange. I found a resource in California on-line about a year ago that rebuilds old ADS drivers for a resonable sum. Trouble is, even if I did get them repaired, I'd have no place to set those babies up and enjoy them; the house is already full of Klipschs!! (In the theater and editing room) So, I can't really justify the money to get them fixed right now. What a shame because they were very enjoyable to listen to.
-Picky
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Ear:
NEVER, EVER trust voices you hear in your head!!
ROCK ON!!! -Picky
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IMAX
in Home Theater
Hallwalker:
Apologies to you: I'm not trying to be a know-it-all here, but according to your link: (http://www.bigscreenmovies.com/ImaxMatters/LansingAnnounce.htm ) it says the Lansing IMAX screen is 44' x 70' and the room seats 330 people. The IMAX at the Henry Ford in Dearborn touts they are the largest IMAX theater in Michigan showing both 2D and 3D films (it seats 440 and the screen measures 62' x 84'). Ref: (http://www.thehenryford.org/imax/about.asp ) So, that's advertising for you! I wonder if they know who is right???
-Picky
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artto (et all):
On the Ice Shield rubber membrane and wall construction:
The roll of ice shield I was able to get at Home Depot measures 48" wide. The most problematic area of noise I must contend with in my theater is an adjacent utility (furnace/laundry) room. To eliminate this problem, I have built the following:
A double-studded wall consisting of a 2"x6" top plate and sole plate with 2"x4" studs that are staggered along each edge of the top and sole plates and not touching one-another. Between these staggered studs I have run one thickness of the rolled, ice sheild rubber membrane material. I have also added standard fiberglass insulation to each side of the ice sheild simply to fill the void. On the furnace side of the studs I have applied 1/2" sheet of B-C Plywood and a sheet of 5/8" Drywall. To the theater side of the studs I have added a 1/2" of Homasote sound deadening board and a 1/2" sheet of drywall. As with all walls in the theater, all studs were coated on each side with elastomeric chalk, prior to screwing the wall coverings to them.
The 32" door that goes from the theater into the utility room is an oak verniered, solid wood-composite door with aluminum strip-mounted, extruded rubber bead weather-stripping along the sides and top of the door and a 1-1/2" x 32" Flex-Guard Brush Seal sound barrier brush from Memtech along the door's bottom. http://www.flex-guard.com/brushield.htm
The results? From the theater, I no longer hear the roar of the furnace when it is operating, nor can I hear the washing machine during spin-cycle. My conculsion is that the wall and isolation materials are working successfully in concert with one-another as expected, although admitedly, the ice shield is not as dense (nor nearly as expensive) as the other vinyl barrier materials that are available.
I am very happy with the results I got for the money.
The bottom line for me was to follow the basic rule of thumb to isolate one room from another: In order to form a sound barrier, it is imporant to literally form a seal between the rooms. The ice shield and door weather stripping helped me do that, and for the least amount of money.
About EQ:
No arguement here. I realize I am introducing additional componentry into the signal path. However, when I do an A/B test between my saved EQ setting and the Dry signal path, I like the saved EQ settings best in this room. After all, we invested in this setup to make US happy. I'm sure you are happy with yours.
About the ceramic tile in the bathroom:
You were close....We got ours at Lowe's: Portobello 12" x 12" & 6" x 6" Ibiza Ceramic Tile, Item #: 121141 Model: 78288. We have been to both Home Expo (run by Home Depot) and to The Great Indoors (run by Sears) and they both have a huge selection of ceramic tile. This was my first-ever attempt at installing ceramic. It was easier than I had imagined, but it was still a lot of work.
-Picky
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Colin:
With all due respect to artto, whom I must admit, probably knows more about the subject of acoustics than I would ever hope to know: for my own personal room needs, the equalization-route (which he dislikes), coupled with the other things I'd mentioned, works fine for us. We did not have the luxury of developing a room of optimal size relative to all of the wavelengths, etc. So, we are working with what we have. Basements are not very forgiving size-wise. We are not about to take our room to the level that artto has taken his, nor would I begin to compare the two rooms. If I had to classify the two approaches, artto's would probably be the ultimate, while mine would merely be adequate. But, we like it just the same. Different strokes, I guess.
-Picky
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bmarch:
I've not yet owned a Luxman but I do have great respect for them. I can only tell you that I have been extremely happy with my Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi and the way it has driven my Klipsch system for the last year. What I cannot tell you is that you should be regretting your purchase. I figure, so long as your own ears are happy (and that's what is really important), then I think you did pretty good, don't you? Best of luck!
-Picky
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Ear:
It sounds as if you are all set for anything that comes your way. Be sure to let us know how that voice sounds after you get the DVD!
m00n:
How about that! A cartoon? I'm going to have to check out 'Titan AE' as I am not familiar with it. To test certain aspects of the system, I like to use the "Christmas Recon" chapter of 'Behind Enemy Lines' and the "Test Drive" chapter of 'Super Speedway' (Mario Andretti) which was originally filmed for IMAX. During the "test drive" portion, you can actually feel the air pressure change in the room as the car circles the track. It's amazing!
-Picky
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Frzninvt:
I could not agree with you more on the ADSs!! They were fantastic-sounding speakers. The L-910s were even more awesome. I always wished I could have afforded those, too. I also agree that Polk made those SDA's back when Polk was at their best. The SDA-SRSs sounded unbelieveable and were so-o expensive back then (1986). You could literally hear minute detail not only side-to-side in them, but top-to-bottom as well! I also agree that the SDA-2A's didn't exactly "Rock" as you put it. They were good for "lighter" music, until I added the 10" Polk sub. Then, they rocked!
-Picky
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Man-Oh-Man:
Huge questions here! FYI: My theater is currenlty in construction.
EQ: Yes, I did try EQ first as it is built-into my Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi Receiver and it is is automated (MCACC System): http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/0,,2076_4151_20157532,00.html
Room Treatments: Because the theater is being built in a basement and there are cinderblock walls and a concrete floor, I went with a partially suspended ceiling that utilizes specialized acoustical foam tile from Illbruck Industries (Sonex) that absorbs 90% of the sound that hits it to help eliminate some of the reflections. They're called Harmoni Acoustical ceiling tiles: http://www.illbruck-archprod.com/ceilingwall/ceilingwall_harmoni.html They are made of Melamine foam that will not burn and has a Class 1 commercial fire rating per ASTM E84. 14-2'x2' ceiling tiles were about $600.
I am also using a thick, rubber membrane to cover all of the walls and the ceiling prior to drywall and/or ceiling tile application. This membrane blocks sounds transmitted from the upper floor and helps to stop any reflection that might occur from the cinderblock walls. Several companies sell this acoustic membrane at some rather high prices (more than $200 for a 48" x 60-foot roll). But, I found a roofing product at Home Depot for about $35 per 48" x 50-foot roll that seems to work just as effectively. Some roofers refer to it as "Ice Sheild". It is applied to the studs and the joists using short button-head nails. The "buttons" are plastic and act as washers and are also available at Home Depot or Lowe's.
After the room is completed, if I need to address any standing wave problems with the bass, I plan to install Sonex foam corner bass traps that are shaped like a triangle: http://www.sonex-online.com/Specialties.htm I do not believe these are very expensive. They may be used in corners and in other room boundaries such as where the walls meet the ceiling.
If early reflections from the side walls becomes a problem, I will install a couple of Illbruck Fabritec Wall Panels: http://www.illbruck-sonex.com/products/products_FABRITEC.html I do not have pricing. Sorry. I do know that they work great.
Just in case you were beginning to wonder: No, I do not work for Illbruck nor do I receieve any kickbacks. I have simply done a lot of research and I have a resource near my home that carries these items.
I also plan to cover the cement floor with floor tile and an area rug just in front of the main viewing area. I hope this information helps you! Best of luck!
-Picky
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mmiles:
I simply ran a 20-Amp home-run circuit from my equipment rack back to the breaker panel and it runs my entire system; projector, sub and all. No issues yet. (12 gauge wire) 2,400 Watts (@120 Volts) is a lot of power! Be sure to use a 20-Amp-rated outlet as well!
-Picky
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Frzninvt:
It's obvious we disagree on the quality-level of the Polk SDA-2 sound, and I'm okay with that. Everyone hears things differently. And, although I do believe you when you said they did not handle the power they were rated to run at, I never seemed to reach the limitation-level that you had taken them too when the 6.5s would begin to "lose it". I didn't have the luxury of the kind of power you had to run them on (300 Watts per channel). I had my SDA-2As connected to an NAD high-current, intergrated amp that was rated at 100 Watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms. They seemed to run fine on that for me.
Years ago, I owned a pair of ADS L-810s http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vintage/messages/54266.html that I still feel to this day, were some of the cleanest-sounding speakers I have heard. Unfortunately, they could not take a lot of power.
Another pair I found even more impressive back in the mid-1970's were a pair of vintage Dahlquist DQ10s. http://www.audioweb.com/Ad/AdInfo.asp?adid=131531 Trouble was; I couldn't afford them then.
-Picky
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KiNNi C P:
Naturally, I don't expect eveyone to agree. But, yes, without revealing more about the movie to those whom have yet to see it, I was referring to the voice that came from the large head, or "Machine God" to borrow the phrase from m00n. I also mentioned in an earlier reply that the DVD mix for home release will most-likely be tweaked differently. I am anxious to see what that will sound like at home on my system. I do have 'Reloaded' on DVD , but I haven't had time to view it yet. Sorry to hear it's not up to par for you. I'll have to give it a whirl real soon.
I have heard the deep submarine noises on my system at home while watching 'U571'. And although I found them to be remarkably strong, I did not find them to be nearly as impressive (to me) as the voice in 'Matrix: Revolutions' as viewed at the IMAX. I think the reason has to do with the combined mid-range and mid-bass components coming from the rear surrounds and not just from the subs (in 'Revolutions'). The deep sounds in 'U571' were purely sub. But still remarkable. I'll have to rent 'Godzilla' on your recommendation. Thanks.
-Picky
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Flason:
I agree, the SDA's do take some power. Mine were rated up to 600 Watts if I recall correctly. They certainly did have a fine, open sound. If there was anything I would have changed about them, it would have been the addition of a dome mid-range driver.
-Picky
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Grand11:
I truely believe your perception of the noise does totally rely upon where you viewed the film. In my case, the voice wasn't simply high-output, low end. That is something I think we've all heard before. Instead, in addition to the high-ouput, low-end it also contained some extremely powerful mid-range as well and the overall perception I got was that the voice eminated from both of the rear corner surrounds and the subs. The level of energy exerted by the surrounds was quite remarkable and unique to any other effect I have witnessed thus far in a theater. So, perhaps the reason you found the voice to be rather unimpressive, could be a component of the possibility the theater's sound system may not have been up to the task? I don't really know of course. You were there, I wasn't. -Thanks. As I mentioned before, I do plan to view the film in a "normal" theater to do a comparison. I'll let you all know what I discover. I don't know how soon we'll be going as the hoilday season is nearly upon us.
-Picky
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Yes, I'm sure some of you lucky people out there do have systems that will handle "THE VOICE". I'm actually being a bit facetious when I say my RS-7's won't handle it. But once you hear this voice, you'll understand what m00n and I are talking about. It is incredible and unlike ANYTHING I've ever heard in a movie before! It was quite thrilling.
Just to clarify a couple of things:
I haven't seen the fim in the regular theater (I plan to), but in the IMAX the voice Mainly comes out of the two rear surrounds (very unsual) and the subs. It is not perceived to come at all from the fronts, at least not at the IMAX. This may differ from the normal theater.
Also, when they do release films for home DVD, the sound is almost always remastered to play in a more percise manner due to the closer quarters, rather than playing in a more general fashion in order to cover most of the seating in a large theater. For example, the newly released 'Lion King' was remastered in that way for home theater. See link: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=508&page_number=1 I would imagine that the 'Matrix: Revolutions' will be too.
-Picky
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Follow-up:
Well, I am happy to report that the old Polk towers made it to our friends' in Northern Nevada in fine shape, thanks to the packing expertise of the UPS Store (AKA: Mailboxes, Etc.) and for the care shown them by UPS Ground. (4 days from Dearborn, Michigan to Dayton, Nevada. Not bad!) Our friends immediately hooked those SDA-2As up and they were thrilled with them! I'd always loved those 2 speakers, but we simply needed more room in our tiny living room for our new furniture and could no longer justify having those "monoliths" in there any longer.
The B&W LM-1s are all hooked up to my Onkyo Pro-Logic receiver and I was able to tweak them the other night. I must admit there is absolutely no comparison between the small, wall-mounted B&W leisure monitors and the Polk SDA-2A towers, nor did expect there to be. But, what did surprise me is just how well the little B&Ws project and play cleanly and loudly without any discernable breakup or distortion. They have a sensitivity of 91db @ 1 watt @ 1 meter, which I think is pretty good for such small speakers. Granted, these little guys do fall on their faces with anything below 100 Hz. But, I kept my Polk 10" self-powered sub and after tweaking it certainly blends in nicely with the LM-1s. I also retained the use of our Polk CS-350 Center channel. I have always been very satisfied with its performance, especially on dialogue.
So, it seems like we did the right thing: We sold our old, mint-condition Polk SDA-2As to some friends at a resonable price (split the shipping with them, too) and they are very happy, and we were able to turn around and break even with the money buying the pair of B&W LM-1's. We now have more space and only a slight compromise in sound enjoyment. Heck, if I want to do any critical listening, I'll just go downstairs to the HT and fire up the Klipsch reference series system!
Happy Campers! -Picky & Wife
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Easy:
I must agree with you and now I understand what the THX people have been saying for years: All channels should have identical speakers and power. Unfortunately for people such as I, budget and room space prevent me from pressing ahead with this philosphy. I sometimes get "seasick" at IMAX theaters, too. However, this particular film provides sufficient relief from the motion between scenes that I did not experience that phenomenon last night, nor did my wife. The sound was not overly-loud either. This was totally pleasant experience.
dblue:
I totally agree with you, man! That sounded like the devil himself!
Thanks!- Picky
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OMG!
All I can say is, seeing 'Maxtrix: Revolutions' in the IMAX format (70mm) was incredible! Don't worry, for those of you whom have not yet seen the movie, I am not going to give anything away regarding the plot. But, in reading m00n's thread a week or two ago, (When Matrix Revolutions comes out on DVD it will be bitter sweet) he mentioned a voice that occurs in a portion of the movie that he said he'd never be able to reproduce on his HT system at home. Considering this theater has a 12,000 watt sound system with 8-18 inch subwoofers,
that voice sounded unlike any voice I have ever heard before! m00n was right: I doubt I'll ever be able to get my RS-7s to do the job those huge monsters hanging up in the rear corners of the Henry Ford IMAX theater did! My wife and I walked out of there speechless last night. I will say this about the movie; I liked this 3rd version of the movie better than the first two I think, although the first one was very remarkable. I thought they over-did the special effects in the second and it was not quite as good as the 1st and 3rd, but it was still thrilling to watch. However, this third iteration of the Matrix was just outstanding! If any of you ever get the opportunity to see it, please do so. And, if you get the chance to witness it in IMAX, DO SO!! http://www.hfmgv.com/imax/showtimes.asp
Life will no longer be the same.......time to go look at bigger power amps! ...the wife is going to kill me!
-Picky
We saw their projection room. I'd have to say it is about 35' (W) x 75' (L) x 12' (H) and the IMAX projector is this big, white box that is about the size of three side-by-side fridges. Their equipment racks were ay least 8 feet tall and two were filled top-to-bottom with power amps (could not see what kind)! Techno-overload for sure! The reels of 70mm movie film were at least 5-feet in diameter! Can you say "hernia"? 
Actually, thanks for your honesty. I'd always wondered what it would have been like to own a pair, other than having no room left in my living room for furniture, that is.
Thanks!
The latest matrix out on video
in Home Theater
Posted
If it stunk...it had to be 'Matrix:Reloaded"....#2.