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About picky

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    KMAH Founding Member
  • Birthday October 25

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  • Location
    Detroit Area, MI
  • Interests
    Audio, Music, Photography
  • My System
    RF-7, 7.1 Reference System in dedicated theater

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  1. Verna, Bill and I were heartbroken when we had to cancel our plans to come this year a few weeks ago. I was shocked this morning when I read a text from my son, saying that the pilgrimage is canceled. I think it's for the best, to err on the side of caution. Many world-class acts have already canceled their tours for the year or postponed concerts until the fall. I feel Klipsch's decision is prudent. We can't wait until next year! Plus, Verna should be feeling better by then. Note: I teased Verna this morning after I found out about the cancellation: I told her that because SHE wasn't going to be there this year, that everyone else bailed, too! LOL Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk
  2. This post is respectfully directed to all Klipsch Forum members, Klipsch Group and to the KMAH Members: As many of many of you may be aware, my wife, Verna and I have been constant supporters of the Klipsch forum, pilgrimages and now the museum for some 18 years. And as of last year, we're proud to say that our son Bill is now a member of the forum (pickys son) and a pilgrimage attendee as well. We three had planned to attend this year's pilgrimage in Hope next month. However, for the past year, my wonderful bride has endured all of the horrors associated with going through breast cancer, chemotherapy and radiation therapy. I am thrilled to say she came through it all quite well. It was initially our belief that by this March, she would most likely be back on track physically. Unfortunately, such is not the case: Daily fatigue can sometimes overwhelm her days: Even though she might have gotten eight hours of sleep the night prior, by one or two o'clock in the afternoon, it's become commonplace for her to lay down in bed and sleep soundly for 3 to 4 hours, only for her again to need to retire early in the evenings. Therefore, yesterday morning, she and I discussed with seriousness, the notion of our attending this year's 2020 Klipsch Pilgrimage in Hope. We live in Michigan. Sadly, it is our belief that with the 14 hour-drive down and back, the exciting, activity-laden, early starting/late ending days that typically each pilgrimage in the past has brought to our experience, are something that Verna is simply not ready to negotiate just yet. We have both come to the realization that it could take up to a year for Verna's lifestyle to normalize. Because of this, it is with heavy hearts that we, together with our son, must announce that we have regrettably chosen to bow out of this year's pilgrimage. We shall miss seeing all of you and are sorry we will miss all of the events as well as the many trips out to Rodney's Farm. We do, however, hope to attend next year's 75 Year Anniversary Celebration, wherever it takes place! May God bless you all! Kindest regards, Glenn, Verna and Bill
  3. Hello Gary and welcome to the forum. I saw your proposed speaker compliment and I have a question. You've chosen LCR, Sub and 2 Atmos speakers. Should I assume you are not interested in also having 2 side surrounds and 2 rear surrounds, or did I miss something? It would also be helpful to know your room's dimensions (L x W x H in feet). Thanks.
  4. Hello, Tommo and welcome to the forum! It's fantastic to have your wife on board with you. When we built our own dedicated, home theater 16 years ago, I immediately involved my bride in just about every aspect of the design and selection processes. Together, we auditioned more than 13 separate sound systems at various high-end audio salons (a thing of the past) around the Detroit area. We hit pay-dirt the moment we heard Klipsch! We decided on a 7.1, Klipsch Reference system: RF-7s, RC-7, RS-7's and two in-wall rears together with an RSW-15 sub. As of this writing, our theater still sounds magnificent! The main different today is, after the failure of our projector after 10 years of service, we went with a 75" flatscreen and have not been disappointed! Our old Stewart screen was 78" and we do not miss the extra 3 inches. Our screen has since been donated to the Klipsch Museum of Audio History in Hope, Arkansas. My humble opinion is, if you do not plan to go with at least a 100" screen or larger, there are so many much more affordable options out there to go with an 85" flatscreen or smaller than to utilize a screen/projector setup. For the money, I feel there's more bang-for-your-buck with far less cost and hassle than the projector route. However, a projector is currently the only affordable method of going beyond the 85" realm. If you still plan to have a living room with media equipment, rather than a dedicated theater room, I too recommend you might find it best to option out of the Atmos ceiling speakers. However, Klipsch does offer wedge-type Atmos speakers that can sit on top of your front column speakers and project the sound to the ceiling, effectively simulating the Atmos experience. Best of luck to you both, Remember: "Happy wife, happy life!"
  5. Khornukopia: Yes, we do, especially in my son's room with the dual 15" subs and the skewed side walls. My room was measured about 8 years ago be fellow Klipsch Forum member, Dr.Who. At the time, he was an engineer at Shure Microphone in Illinois. My room measured 13Hz-20KHz +/- 3.0 db! His comment: "This just doesn't happen in a home!" He took the measurements 3 times with similar results.
  6. Khornukopia: I believe your statement is true: You can order different thickness of the Owens Corning mineral wool. In my case, all of my son's walls are 2x4 stud. Therefore, in order to get the 15-bag discount, he ordered the 3" thick stuff because that is the majority of what he needs. We simply triple it up for the ceiling joists and it works great!
  7. schwock5: All drywall used was 1/2" thick. Walls are wooden studs with mineral wool insulation. The roofing membrane was then stapled to the studs wall-to-wall and ceiling-to-floor with any joints taped with Gorilla Duct Tape. Then, in most cases, one layer of 1/2" drywall was screwed to the studs on top of the membrane. The only wall that used a double-layer of drywall was on the stagger-studded, double wall adjacent the utility room. There is a solid composite, oak veneer door in the doorway between the utility room and the theater. That door has exterior, bulb-type weather stripping on the top and side gaps. Even more importantly, there is an industrial noise brush sweep on the door's lower edge that blocks sound from transmitting under the door to the theater when it is closed. Note: Leave the door open when not using your theater so the appliances inside can have a full air exchange. When watching a movie (with the door closed) at what I'd call a real life reference volume, it would be nearly impossible to hear the water heater, furnace, washer or dryer running through the wall. It's important to stuff the ceiling joists over the wall with mineral wool and to use the membrane wherever possible. Treat sound as it it was a liquid, so to speak; if it could leak, you will hear it! The metal speaker enclosures should work fine. However, I discovered not all of Klipsch's metal enclosures shown on their site are still available for purchase. This is why we built our own. Also, ours were much cheaper. Regardless of which type enclosure you may use, I recommend wrapping all of back and sides with membrane using glue, tape or an other method. You want to contain that sound within the "envelope" of the theater. If installing Sonex (yes it's very expensive, but effective), I also recommend stuff the ceiling joists full of mineral wool. We used 3 layers and held it in place with the metal stripping referred to as "plumber's tape" across the bottom of the joists about every 3 feet. We wrapped self-adhesive pipe wrap tape, that is made to block pipe noise, on any exposed drain pipes from tubs, showers, toilets, etc. Then, we button-nailed membrane across all ceiling joists thereby covering our insulation and all HVAC duct work in the ceiling. The duct work we placed into the walls to ventilate the theater (heating/cooling and cold air returns) was vinyl flex duct hose that has an insulated sleeve over it. Using this instead of rigid steel ducting tends to transmit less sound from the theater into the rest of the home's duct work. The grid holding the Sonex tile hangs just below all of this with at least enough clearance so the tiles and membrane do not touch each other. Sub bass sound is definitely the hardest thing to block and I'm sorry to say that it's nearly impossible to fully eliminate it. You may not hear it at the other end of the house, but you're going to feel it to some degree!
  8. schwock5: Ironically, our son's theater is also 12'w x 14' deep!! I cannot agree more with garyrc not to over-deaden the room. My own room as well as my son's appear to have just the right amount of "echo-time" in them using the methods I mapped out in my earlier post to you. The Sonex tiles are the finish of the ceiling. Ours tiles are matte black as well as our front walls (painted drywall). We've discovered that going to black not only makes the screen "pop" (especially the colors), it eliminates any distractions from the viewer's eyes and the viewer no longer is able to perceive the room's physical dimensions while viewing in a darkened atmosphere, thereby giving viewers the perception of total envelopment into the movie: It makes one feel they are sharing the environment displayed on the screen (a feeling rather difficult to explain)! As for Atmos speakers, in each area you plan to place one, instead of the Sonex tile, you substitute a 1/2" thick, 2' x 2' sheet of MDF painted in your tile's color with the appropriate template hole cut into it in which to pace your speaker. If you require more isolation, you can do as we have done: Build backing boxes for your in-wall and ceiling speakers out of 1/2" MDF or a good grade of plywood, glue, screw (or brad nail) and stuff (and staple) with insulation, as you would any speaker box. As you've discovered, it is sometime quite difficult to believe some things that are posted on-line. However, although I don't know the exact specs of the Owens Corning mineral wool insulation, I can tell you this stuff really does work! I'd be willing to say that when used in conjunction with the roofing membrane I used, the combination offers MANY times more isolation that the pink stuff. In a 2x4 stud wall, you'd need one layer of mineral wool. In a 2x6 stud wall, most-likely two layers. We used three layers in the ceiling joists. Another benefit: It's fireproof! We did not use any type of unusual wall framing in our rooms with respect to improvement of isolation. Because both of our rooms reside in basements, we did nothing to isolate the concrete floor. As far as studding, we did place our wooden-studded walls an inch or two away from the basement concrete or cinder block walls in order to isolate them from the structure. This distance of course varied on the skewed side walls. In my own theater, the right side wall abuts to an adjacent utility/laundry room that is quite noisy. For that wall, I built two staggered-studded walls that do not touch each other and ran membrane and double drywall (without clips or green glue) on both sides. I approximate the resultant sound level drop to be perhaps -20 to -25 db. I'm sorry that I'm unable tell you how well the Sonex tiles perform vs. the clips/hat channel/double drywall w/green glue method you'd mentioned as I do not have the basis for performing such a test. Perhaps the vendor you would go through to buy the Sonex tiles has this information? I bought mine through a vendor here in Michigan: Memtech. But, I can tell you that yes, these products do provide you the absorption you seek without added external tiles or devices. That's the whole point in going to this method. And the few, Inserted MDF panels for adding the Atmos speakers or recessed lighting fixtures seem to be of little consequence acoustically. Note: we added a narrow, self-stick foam to the bottom-outer edge of the MDF so, as it rests in the ceiling grid track, it does not vibrate.
  9. schwock5: Coincidentally, my son and I are in the midst of building his home theater as well. I'd built my own back in 2004, when resources weren't nearly as abundant as they now are. Since then, I've learned many things about theater design, construction and materials. Being able to find items that appear to accomplish the same feat with far less expense is a huge asset. One of these items would be in respect to sound-blocking, mass-loaded, roll membrane for use on walls and ceiling etc. This type of material can be quite costly. However, I have discovered that if one substitutes GAF Tri-Ply APP Smooth roll roofing membrane 3 ft. x 33 ft. (100 sq. ft.) for the expensive "home theater mat" and combine it with the use of Owens Corning Thermafiber Fire and Sound Guard Mineral Wool Insulation (Batt 15 in. x 47 in.) instead of the "Pink Stuff", the same isolation may be achieved. A 100 square foot roll of Tri-Ply can be had at places like Home Depot for only about $69 and the Mineral Wool insulation is also available at places like Home Depot for about $42 for 10 sheets, however if you purchase 15 packs or more, they will discount it to about $29 per pack of 10; a huge savings! Fill your walls and ceiling with the appropriate amount of mineral wool and then cover the studs, wall-to-wall with the tri-ply using a pneumatic staple gun and then drywall over it. You may be amazed by the amount of sound blocking that occurs for so much less money! Be sure to cover all membrane seams and holes around electrical outlets with Gorilla Duct Tape. In my experience, the pink insulation does almost nothing to effect sound, relative to blocking or absorption. Mineral Wool is "da bomb"! As far as the ceiling is concerned, rather than drywall, we're using Sonex Harmoni, melamine foam ceiling tiles on a 2' x 2' grid. It's 2 inches thick, comes in numerous colors including mat black, is fireproof and absorbs about 90% of the sound that hits it. It's what I used when building my theater in 2004 and now our son's. The downside: Sonex isn't cheap, especially if you order it with the sound-block agent ProSPEC Composite, incorporated on the back. But nothing else of which I am aware, seems to work as effectively. Finally, the last thing I'll mention is that we are doing a slightly-different design in our son's theater than was done in my own: We skewed the side walls front-to-back a total of 8". What this accomplished is a non-perpendicularity at the front and rear corners of the room in order to reduce any standing wave problems in the bass. The testing we've done thus far with two 15" Klipsch subwoofers up front, prove that our design does work! At last spring's Klipsch Pilgrimage in Hope, Arkansas, I had run my idea by several of Klipsch's engineers and they all agreed it was a good idea as their own manufacturing plant's demo room also has skewed walls and sounds amazing! So, to clarify, our son's theater is more narrow on the screen wall and wider on the rear wall, similar to a isosceles trapezoid. I realize this is a lot of information, but I hope you are able to gain some help from some of my suggestions. Best of luck! -Glenn
  10. EdmundGTP: Your plan to upgrade sounds exciting. Although, my son and I have been huge fans of Pioneer Elite products for years, I'm sorry to say that our collective experience with their products has really shaken our confidence in them. I happen to own their former flagship model from 2004 and had to have the audio processor board replaced after two years of service. Naturally, the unit was JUST out of warranty, so that cost me $650. Considering that it was a $4,500 receiver, $650 made it worth replacing. However, ever since, there's been a low-frequency buzz in the system. I also had one of Pioneer Elite's top DVD players that utilized Firewire to engage surround sound for listening to SACD's and DVD-A disks. The Firewire section gave up the goods about two years after purchase. "Ugh". As for my son's experience, he's gone through three Pioneer Elite receivers and had issues with each one. He's switched to Onkyo and has been satisfied. When I decide to upgrade, which won't be much longer, I too am considering Marantz as on of my target brands. I'll be anxious to read your post when/if to decide to make the switch, to hear your take on the differences. I have a Klipsch RF-7, 7.1 system.
  11. philallergro: Now, having your room dimensions, given that it is 30 feet deep, you might wish to consider migrating over to a pair of 15" subs; one below the front wall and one below the rear wall with both aimed towards the center of the room. That is a very long space for one or even two 12" subs to fill with even bass, in my humble opinion. Of course, if you are already pleased with your current 12" sub's performance, than of course, please disregard my suggestion. As to your question about the rear channels, I believe that the greater the sensitivity the better (KL-650-THX vs KL-525-THX.
  12. Sorry for the double-post. Tap-A-Talk seems to have screwed me up.
  13. Hello and welcome to the forum. It's a great place to be! So, a former K-Horn owner; that's fantastic! I think your choice of the RF-7III's as front main speakers is an excellent choice for home theater. I currently have a pair of the original, RF-7I's and love the manner in which they project. Considering that you, having been a K-Horn owner, please allow me to suggest that you also consider a pair of the new, Cornwall IV's in place of the RF-7III's. My reason for suggesting them is that, in my opinion, the Cornwall VI's, with their new midrange squaker, tend to sound more "K-Horn-like" than the RF-7III's. They too, project extremely well and because they, like the K-Horn, are 3-way systems, their bass-to-midrange-to-treble transition is handled a bit more smoothly than with the RF-7III's, again in my opinion. Naturally, there is a larger cost differential, but you did not mention your budget. In any case, if you do choose to go with the RF-7III's, you will immediately see a dramatic performance increase in dynamics using your existing amplification over your Paradigms due to the large difference in the two speakers' sensitivity ratings: 92db for the Paradigm Studio 20 v5 vs 100db for the RF-7III. The Cornwall IV is 102db. Should you decide to stick with the RF-7III's, I'd like to suggest the RC-64 III Center Channel Speaker. For Cornwall IV's I would suggest the Heresey III or a third Cornwall IV as your center channel (a perfect timbre match). I would agree that your choice of the THX Ultra II Surrounds (KL-525) is outstanding! As for subwoofers, depending on the size of your space, I would like to suggest either one of Klipsch's Reference Series 12" or 15" subs or the pair of THX subs, which would require their external amplifier or an alternative amplifier of your choice. Best of luck, philallegro! Happy shopping!
  14. Hello and welcome to the forum. I completely understand the need to respect your budget. And, as my buddy dtel mentions, I too am unfamiliar with the speaker models mentioned in your link. I just wish to make the point of saying that, based on the type of music you've stated that you prefer, basically a lot of metal and grunge, I would recommend that you check out a pair of RF-7 III's. Few speakers, for the money, can rock Metallica, et al, like a pair of RF-7's! The issue this brings is that doing so would totally blow your $1,500 budget out-the-window. However, if you wish to have a great system that is capable of returning a truly-detailed, visceral rock experience, given the demands of that style of music and its energy, you'd be hard-pressed, I fear, to get satisfaction within your budget. I personally have an RF-7, 7.1 reference system and I have been thrilled with it since 2004. I love metal, grunge and many other genre and utilize my system for music, movies and concerts. It does all three without effort. Best of luck!
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