Troll

Try walking away instead of spitting on the door. Surely you have manners.

Having second thoughts? https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/stereotype-of-tubes-highs-rolled-off-and-low-bass-response.883408/

I sent Mark an email. Let’s see what he thinks. “Hi there, not sure if you have time, but a Chris Isaak fan is complaining about some songs as he is experiencing on Klipsch LaScala AL5s which I was able to reproduce on mine. Wondered if we could know more about the mix and how the waves of the bass and Isaac’s voice are timed and traveling in stereo/mono. I think some of us ruled out cabinet resonance it’s how the song comes across in horn loaded bass cabinets as well as sub and goes away with single channel played, so it seems like a timing issue and wondering whether it is on purpose or just an artifact of the 90s style of engineering.”

Bay Area-based engineer Mark Needham has worked with Isaak on almost all of his records, as well as on the music for Showtime's The Chris Isaak Show. Let’s get Mark Needham on the thread.

Only if you feel you have a right to be offended. The OP is offended with how some songs are reproduced in his setup. Shall we figure out the physics or tell him he shouldn’t be offended?

I’m sure you manage to tune out a very big world without any assistance with thought terminating comments like this. Following the mystery is part of the hobby, but of course if you have an object to sell to “fix” something, you don’t want your customer to find out the reality.

This guy is good but you have to maybe have read/watched through the mono-bass subwoofer guys first to feel as strongly as I do about how wrong they are. https://youtu.be/8hNtxXu0rOY

So I could probably make the warble go away with some delay adjustments.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect#:~:text=Haas found that humans localize,single auditory event is perceived.

Haas Effect?

Will look at this fresh today. I’m thinking when I tried again my sub might not have warmed up or something else was amiss. Does the OP have a sub? Im thinking this could be in the realm of the stereo bass arguments you will see everywhere. For example, one site says “As a general rule of thumb, it’s considered common practice to sum anything below 200hz to mono.” So one idea is to replay the track in mono and see if the problem goes away since it went away when playing one speaker at a time. I have all my speakers set to full range because well they are full range. Bass heads will disagree but I like it. So when I tried it again after system shut down from inactivity, it’s possible my sub was not on, and perhaps the way the sub interacted with the AL5s created the sensation. Remember when I said the problem was gone when I only played the left but then I said the problem was sort of gone when I only played the right? Well the sub is on the right. If my AVR is sending 80Hz and above to mains and not summing the bass and sending to sub (which I believe it is) then the interplay of stereo bass plus sub is showing its effects. Have fun watching YouTube on mixing stereo bass then go listen to the “experts” at audioholics and elsewhere. will also try the peq setting but that won’t make the effect disappear necessarily. It will still be there just less audible, and my windows won’t shatter.

System shut down automatically from non-use while typing the above. I reconnected everything…fired it up again on AL5 all drivers and what do you know it’s gone. I don’t think I had a speaker plugged in out of phase. But reverse the polarity on one of your AL5 bass bin connections and see what you get.

I have to report the YouTube music video of Chris Isaak Baby Did a Bad Bad Thing did not appear to have any annoying resonance but alas that was the wrong song. Blue Spanish Sky at :37 has a good solid double speaker output of his voice that has a warble effect on my ears. I remember vaguely Chris Isaac doing this on other systems. I think it’s his thing. I notice the bass also plays near the same or competing frequency for a bit and they together create this dissonance. If I turn it up and play it over and over yea it kinda gets to me, but at lower volumes it’s a nice room filling deep sound. Engineers can play these games between channels as well to get effects so not sure if it’s by accident or on purpose to get you to recognize Isaac’s trademark sound. I don’t perceive it as an AL5 error though at all. I used to make really annoying bass sounds like this as a kid with my sears amp and slightly detuning one string against another. To me it’s his voice plus the bass together. I think that’s what you might also hear in a live venue. For grins I unplugged the top cabinet and can hear the dissonance even more clearly between the bass and his voice. It’s that warble you hear when two people sing next to each other and one slightly off key. We used to do that in choir for fun. Kinda reminds of the sound of singing through a fan. So yes I think they did it for effects after maybe they at first realized something was off key then decided it was a cool effect anyway. Is this comb filtering??? switching to ns-5000s, much less efficient, gone. Sounds great. Hang on I have to defeat my max vol for these speakers to hear at same level. Still great. I switch back to only left AL5. Gone. I switch to right AL5, mostly gone. The annoying noise you hear is the bass bin interplay of the same signal in stereo. You’re literally hearing the waves coming in from each at slightly offset arrival times or same time but slightly offset per ear. This is literally what pops needles out of records and why they have to do mono bass on vinyl. It’s what destroys bridges and Ella Fitzgerald Maxell wine glasses. Run for your life. Now, AL5s are 12 feet tweeter to tweeter, listening is about 10 feet from face. Ns-5000s are about 80” tweeter to tweeter same distance to listening. There might be some magic to spacing. But I suspect the way the bass bin throws the waves is the same reason for the live effect sound and this interesting artifact. The ns-5000s have a rear port, currently unplugged. My guess the waves are being distributed in a dispersed pattern I might expect to see some nulls as the front and rear waves collide throughout the room. But from listening it sounds good. Now for someone else to do some homework. Is it the spacing at all? Is it the pure unadulterated direct bass wave from the horn design with no competing waves except the other channel? stuck my finger in one ear, then the other, the effect is lessened. So it’s a combination of arrival time of each speaker to two ears not the same distance. But there’s some other things going on too. My guess is that the AL5 throws bass in a unique singularity unlike passive radiation. I think it’s an effect of the horn. Very fun! I’m too lazy to try the other songs and do all the unplugging and replugging for each, but I have to say our OP is NOT WRONG. Now whether you think it’s cool or you think it’s a defect is up to you. I have a feeling chief bonehead and Dave Rat have something to offer for this phenomenon. My verdict is comb filtering, and why Dave Rat runs each instrument and singer out of only one line array and not both at concerts. Why does the NS-5000 not present the comb filtering of Chris Isaaks voice combing through both channels? Is it just the dispersion pattern?

Are you typing in disappearing ink? I can read the email but not the post on browser.

***Word***

FYI the JBL 2226H also has a peak right about there without a cabinet. I think it’s a function of the woofers themselves. Whether a cabinet hides or enhances it could be the question.

Think of damping factor as control. If a big bass signal causes the woofer to punch, followed by nothing, a low damping factor will cause the woofer to swing the opposite direction like a pendulum until it eventually comes to rest at zero. A high damping factor amp will return the woofer to zero without any reverse pendulum counter motion. It’s basically a resister on the circuit. Damping factor at 1Khz on the m-5000 is >=300 at 8ohms. Some of the Burmester amps have an adjustable damping circuit and report >=1000 at 4ohms. I will try the above songs on my m-5000 with both AL5 and NS-5000s and report back. The Yamahas have high slew rate amps. Bringing life to a lifeless song with tubes is the same as choosing cabinet resonance. Not bad or good but it’s “reproduction as a musical instrument” compared to some other objective.

I am looking at a graphic online of how to mix kick drums, the graphic highlights 200-300Hz as muddy murkiness, common to slightly cut this area. A friend who intended to get kick drum sound out of some big Cerwin Vegas came over and heard my AL5s and said “yep that’s what I want to hear”. Mind you he has VERY DIFFERENT EARS.

I hear lots of notes I don’t like in live performances and it turns out it’s the instrument itself. Then when amplified it gets worse. I have been fooled by some EDM that injects bass distortion and thought I blew a speaker. If you are isolating to a single song you need to also rule out that song with headphones although I suspect you already did. Ruling that out then certainly room modes then finally yes rap your knuckles, preferably open fingertips on the side of the cabinet and that’s the natural resonance. If that’s what you’re hearing it’s the cabinet. But yes like mentions above anything that makes a noise has to vibrate so fast and with such energy you can feel it with fingers for it to be audible across the room. That’s why speaker guys are always knocking the wood and walking around the units. If you’re like me you’ll start tapping everything in your house to hear the resonance. A loose window is always interesting though. Watching a subwoofer that is off, moving back and forth because it is adjacent to another speaker is freaky.

Wait, do you mean if I remove the resonance from an acoustic guitar it will play quieter???

It’s a testament to fine engineering without waste if indeed 0.6 mm actually makes a difference. I’d probably lose that much over time if a maid I used was still employed here. She understood elbow grease, but not fine finishes.

I was thinking about gluing shag carpet to the sides. Jk it’s still an idea for a diy set because it was popular in Arkansas when I was a kid.

Wouldn’t room correction hear this and minus it out from listening positions? Might have to play to see though I don’t like what room correction comes up with. My sense is that speakers are also instruments and all instruments resonate. It’s part of the experience. Who wants to hear a non-resonant instrument? But yea if it’s too loud just pull that peak down. There will be other room peaks to deal with as well as the peaks and valleys in your own set of ears.

Unplug the top from the bottom to isolate what you are hearing. Also, throw one in your backpack and take it somewhere else and see if you still hear it. Could be the room.