[Early digital, Virgil Fox, and OMG!]

As I was writing (and adding the pic) to my post above, I missed your latest post, Dave, and I'm intrigued...

It's my understanding from what I've read that these historic session recordings on the Ruffatti at Garden Grove were recorded between August 28 to 31, 1977 due to the strenuous nature of recording direct-to-disc with no breaks inbetween pieces. As in the linear notes from my "Digital Fox" album and CD, there were no other recordings made of the same material on the same instrument within a month of each other. I assume what we hear on any of these formats is what was simultaneously recorded between those three days in August '77 on direct-to-disc, analog tape, and digital tape.

I'm guessing since on all the formats the performances are not all in the same order, there are certain selections used from either the direct-to-disc masters and digital tape masters from the 3 day session...I dunno. On my Ultragroove/Bainbridge CD this tidbit is mention though:

"Originally released as a direct-to-disc collectors edition recording (UG-9003). Please note: This CD contains the same repertoire as the originally released direct-to-disc recording. However, during the direct-to-disc sessions, the simultaneous use of analog tape and the newest technology, digital tape, was employed as well. This disc is the result of the digital tape recording. Although still live, the performances and frequency balances are different."

Since I no longer have the cassette copies of these LPs, and my turntable's wired-in patch cables are shot and need to be replaced, I can't at the moment play my albums to hear if indeed different performances of the same material are used. My long term memory sucks, and I haven't actually played these albums in years, so I assumed all the pieces in all the releases are all the same. Apparently not, it seems. As mentioned on the jacket notes from the Chrystal Clear LPs, the direct-to-disc process is a tension-filled, exhausting experience due to its very nature, and even with the smallest error or mistake, even if towards the end of a lacquer's side, the vinyl is lost and the entire process must start all over again! Since analog and digital masters were simultaneously made along with the direct-to-disc lacquers, any other perfectly good selections lost due to errors on the wax were duplicated anyway on both tape formats, so I guess some judicial editing was indeed used...waste not, want not! I really need to get my turntable playable again so I can listen to these performances again!

We're all learning something new about these old recordings...Virgil would be so proud today that folks are still enjoying the fruits of his labor!

[Early digital, Virgil Fox, and OMG!]

I'm glad to see new discoveries to this wonderful recording![]

I was 15 when I bought The Fox Touch dual direct-to-disc albums back in '77, and even though I recorded them to cassette, I still played the hell outta them (they're a bit worn but still quite playable today). The jacket notes on both Chrystal Clear records mention these recordings as using a state-of-the-art direct-to-disc process and nothing else...it wasn't until '81 when I also bought The Digital Fox album (volume 1 only) and discovered these '77 recording sessions were historic in that they simultaneously used direct-to-disc, analog tape, and the newest digital tape technology (at 16-bit/37.5kHz), and was tauted as "the first digital tape recordings made in the United States" (I assume they meant the very first "commercial" digital recordings). The '81 album was released under the Ultragroove Records label and its selections used the digital tape masters.

In '84 I bought The Digital Fox (volumes 1 & 2) CD under the Bainbridge Records label...it too used the digital tape masters for its complete '77 selections (which at over 64 minutes fits both albums perfectly on disc). Sometime in the early '90s I also purchased the 1990 release of "Virgil Fox" on the Laserlight label; it also is cut from the original '77 session digital masters and sounds identicle to the Bainbridge CD. I know of no other releases from any other labels that use these same recordings from the Ruffatti organ at the old Garden Grove Community Church (which, BTW had been combined with a large '62 Aeolian-Skinner pipe organ from NYC's Avery Fisher Hall, totalling 320 ranks and installed in '80(?) in the new all-glass and steel Chrystal Cathedral...at least Virgil was able to play this magnificent enlarged instrument he helped design as a consultant for Ruffatti; he died months later of cancer).

And no quibbles here, Dave[]...regardless of miking techniques, the overall sound of that Ruffatti as a whole is spectacular IMHO, even if RT and the antiphonal is lessened to some degree (nothing's perfect). Recording is as much an art as it is a science, and many opinions on how its acurately done does allow for very interesting results...as long as the final recordings are as near perfect to the live event as humanly possible, then I'm fine with that.

[Mallette CD Distribution]

Dave,

I received the discs in the mail yesterday; they all arrived in great shape. I fired up my 300B SET amp and let the bottles warm up a bit before playing the first of the set:

1. Stewart Wayne Foster: In Recital, the Dedication of the John Scott Memorial Grand Piano at The Episcopal Church of the Annunciation: From an average listener's standpoint, this recording is every bit as good as any from such big time labels as Dorian or Chesky (IMHO). The piano is properly miked so its full frequency spectrum is fully capitalized, which includes the natural ambiance of the room as well (in essence a sounding board in itself). Close miking properly placed allows the instrument to sound brilliant, dynamic and true, regardless of any squeaks or groans a mechanical device such as this will generate while being played...IMO those extraneous noises (what few are there) are what makes the piano come alive. Overall, this is an exceptional recording to my ears.
2. Dallas Camerata In Concert, James Rives-Jones, Music Director: The wind ensemble recorded here has a different tonality to my less-than stellar ears. Maybe it's different mics, their placement, or the recording equipment/bit-sampling rate is different from the Foster piano recording...although imaging and soundstage are present, it's just not as dynamic or open sounding as the first disc I auditioned. It's almost as if the recording is somewhat congested or chesty sounding. Maybe it's my playback equipment, I dunno. It's not a bad recording by any stretch of the imagination, just different (a thicker sound to me...I'm afraid the more I try to describe the differences I'm hearing, the more this critique will come off as sounding like a bad review, and that's not the case at all).
3. A Peasant Celebration, The Hubbard Chamber Music Ensemble, Michele McDonald, Artistic Director: This recording sounds every bit as lively and dynamic as the Foster recital! I can only assume the mics used are the same (or similar) as those used in the piano concert. Definately not chesty or heavy sounding, the instruments here shine; they're clear and exceedingly detailed! Imaging and soundstage are eerie acurate; placement of each musician is clearly defined to my ears...this recording is also extremely enjoyable to listen to thru my Klipsch RB-75s and SET power amp!
4. Asylum Street Spankers: 8PM Show, Volume 1, Saxon Pub, Austin, Texas: Another excellent live recording...love the naturally dry acoustics of the pub, the tinkling of glasses and the yammering of the well-intoxicated crowd, plus the instruments sound spectacular...the bar was transported into my listening room (without the spilled drinks or the stale smell of cigs lingering in the air)! Only flaws I could detect I don't think were the fault of Dave or his equipment...the 60 cycle buzz to the left that was always apparent throughout the gig from either the florescent lights or the PA equipment, and some of the singers (the female in particular) were somewhat drowned out by the instruments themselves, due to maybe improper on-stage monitor levels. Regardless, this is yet another fine example of Dave's recording method and his Virtual Presence technique!

All I can say is bravo, Dave...bravo![*][*][*][*][*]

[Best Lp covers of all time]

This comedy album belonged to my granddad!

[Best Lp covers of all time]

Songs to dive by...

[Best Lp covers of all time]

Sing along with Dick!

[Best Lp covers of all time]

Maybe this is in fini's collection...

[Cut and paste system profile.]

Post your question at the link below, the moderators there can most likely help you:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/31.aspx

[E. Power Biggs]

Jim:
Unless you did the DAT masters at 48 khz, you should be able to direct burn them to CD.

In reading your post, I can fully appreciate your labors. Back in the 80's I did something similar (though nowhere near either as painstaking or authentic) note at a time transcriptions from Handel, Gabrieli, and such to the old Amiga OS using Deluxe Music. For those of us who cannot play, it's sort of like translating a painting to Braille.

That was an INCREDIBLE amount of work, but if I had the instrument you had sitting in front of you demanding to be heard I would have obeyed the call as you did.

I hope others here are able to realize both what you did and, most importantly, WHY. When you played those back, your were realizing the audiophile fantasy: perfect playback. Infinite S/N. 0 distortion. Flat from DC to light, and instantaneous dynamics from 0 to whatever.

WHAT A RUSH!

Dave

Have you ever seen a grown man cry?[:'(]

It was a rush, and now that the organ's gone, it's left a void in my creativity that I can't seem to fill anymore. When I was home alone some nights I would fire up the organ, select, say, The Nutcracker Suite on the Cakewalk sequencer, and press play...every movement was there, utilizing every one of those 19 ranks at my disposal...registration and tempo changes, along with swell shade expression (volume control for those not in the know) throughout the music just as organist Frederick Hohman had transcribed them (I was fortunant enough to have both his sheet music arrangement and the Pro Organo CD to listen to as I transcribed his efforts to MIDI files). As I sat there on the sofa in the dark, staring at the empty, dimly-lit console, I imagined an organist actually sitting on the bench performing the music I was listening to...it was the ultimate audiophile fantasy just as you described it!

I'm listening to Holst's: The Planets that's been sequenced to the Reuter Opus 822 residence organ as I type this, and the music I sequenced to MIDI for our own organ is quite frankly just as good (if not better...IMHO)! Listening to this piece I can already point out that if it was me, I would've edited more extensively with timing and phrasing...the music is just too exact and precise in tempo to my ears and sounds artificial; some of the notes bleed together where I would've shortened them enough to hear a slight break (as when an organist's fingers leave the keys and reposition themselves to strike another chord)...it's hard for me to describe into words what I would edit as far as tempo changes is concerned, but I can hear thru these digital recordings what I would change to make this work sound more like an organist is actually playing it live! I guess after almost 10 years of arranging and editing MIDI files for my own residence pipe organ ('89 to '99), I am a little biased with the results. I'm not dissing the massive amount of work the owner of this Reuter organ put forth in sequencing Holst's and Bach's compositions for his instrument...I'm just saying I would've done some more editing to the final sequences to make them sound like a live performer was playing them is all.

I need to get my few recordings mixed to CD...and I believe the DAT masters are 16/44.1 standard...

[E. Power Biggs]

MD1032, welcome to the Fox club!

My dad's residence pipe organ was a Frankenstein as well, but with well chosen and properly voiced ranks, the II/19 sounded much bigger than it really was, especially when he added a 16' Contra Bassoon stop in the pedal division...pretty dramatic it was!

Wish there were loads of summer recitals to go to here in Florida. Unfortunantly, they are far and few between, if at all. Maybe I should move back to CT or NY where I lived as a kid...at least up there you'll find much in the way of culture and the arts.

[E. Power Biggs]

It's the "schmaltzy" that I dig, and on a few Bach pieces I had arranged and edited thru the MIDI/Cakewalk 4.0 DOS sequencer on the computer, they were fair representations of Virgil's own lively arrangements.

Since I couldn't actually "play" the music (since I'm not an organist), I could transcribe what I heard from a Fox recording and manipulate it on the computer keyboard one note at a time just by figuring out what notes/chords Virgil played at any given portion (usually a measure at a time on the original sheet music). Talk about a tedious, time-consuming process...I had a cheap Yamaha portable keyboard (before General MIDI was even established) that I would use on its own to figure out certain Fox chord structures...once it "sounded" like what Virgil played, I then went to the computer and typed each note onto the sequencer program - per track, per measure. Once the music was typed in, I would set the tempo and timing, and either stretch or shorten the individual notes to give it that "played live" sound and not have it sound mechanical or perfectly timed like a computer with no feelings was playing the music.

Once all the editing was done, I'd set the pipe organ's registration and expression changes thru MIDI patches that coincided with the organ's own relay and the homemade MIDI playback device my dad designed instead of the Roland GS SoundCanvas sound module I also used when the organ wasn't turned on.

I also did Biggs arrangements on a few preludes and fugues, and included one by Jean Guillou as well because I enjoyed his playing technique for that particular piece. As long as I had a CD to listen to (the "play", "pause", and "repeat" buttons on the remote got pretty worn out), I just listened by ear to what each organist performed one measure at a time, and went from there. A month or so later, I'd have a fully arranged piece of music the MIDI playback device on the organ could perform (like a computerized player-piano)...when the music sounded like an actual organist was seated at the console bench performing it live, as opposed to a computer playing it back perfectly in time (with no speed variations whatsoever), that's when I would be totally satisfied and eventually make a DAT recording (after the organ was thoroughly tuned, natch). Unfortunantly, so much finished music never got recorded at all...the arranged MIDI files still sit in the hard drive of that old 8088 (10mHz speed) DOS-only computer.

What a shame...but what few pieces we do have recorded sounded excellent thru the Cornwalls, my bro's KG-5.5s (both sold), and my current RB-75s and ProMedia 2.1 PC speakers! Now I just have to find a way to transfer the DAT masters onto a CD-R...

[E. Power Biggs]

Don't most of the hymn melodies come from old bar tunes? It's a bummer that some people get scorned for communicating in their native language while others are revered...

I think you're confusing bar drinking songs with common folk tunes:

http://www.music-for-church-choirs.com/hymns.html

I could say more but it would be threadcrapping and way off topic to Don Richard's original post...

[E. Power Biggs]

EDIT: double post...

[E. Power Biggs]

Heh...I doubt I'll be straying anytime soon, but I'm all about excellent music that praises His name, no matter what denomination it is![A]

The central Florida diocese is in Orlando at St. James Cathedral (which houses a '60s vintage Wicks that sounds remarkably good for a direct-electric)...at least where the Bishop resides, the music program there is also done right. Just wish he'd pass a decree where NO contemporary rock-band music is allowed in its Catholic churches.

Oh well, can't win 'em all...

[E. Power Biggs]

...and with the few DAT recordings we made of the organ, when playing thru the Cornwalls, the dynamics of the instrument was well represented thru the horns! Even my RB-75s reproduce well-mastered organ recordings with my lowly 6.5 watt SET amp (with the help of my 2 subwoofers, natch).

But I do miss that pipe organ and all those MIDI generated pieces I arranged for it. The new owner in Asheville is installing it in his Victorian house up in the mountains, but since he's 69 years old and doing it alone (with some help by his wife), he told my dad it'll be years yet until it's complete again.

[E. Power Biggs]

...which controlled a 19 rank instrument entirely enclosed in a single chamber professionally built inside the 2-car garage...

[E. Power Biggs]

It wasn't a Casavant, but it was nice for what it was, with parts from the Canadian firm, along with Aeolian-Skinner, Austin, and Moller among others. The console was a restored 1931 F.A. Bartholomew 2 manual affair...

[E. Power Biggs]

Thanks for the Fisk pic, Bruce...a marvelous tracker action instrument indeed!

And you're right about contemporary keyboards/guitars/drums infiltrating today's congregations, with the organs suffering neglect and total exclusion from the worship service. Traditional hymns that once stood the test of time for centuries have now become old fashioned and out of touch with today's society, and to attract (and maintain) younger church-goers, music directors have given way to today's pop-style of music to keep them entertained!

I'm sorry, but I don't condone this practice at all, not at the expense of the organ and its rich heritage. The small Lakeland, FL tracker action firm of Klug & Schumaker, Inc. my dad worked for in the early '80s went out of business precisely because of this move to more modern-day worship songs in the state's churches! With the rising costs to maintain older pipe organs, along with the declining interest for its music (plus FL has no real culture, unless you consider tourist traps culture), many historical instruments in the state are virtually all silenced since only the wealthiest parishes can afford to maintain them, and newer churches aren't even interested in purchasing one, new or used!

In the late '90s when my Catholic church had its multi-million dollar sanctuary built, the architect made provisions for pipe organ chambers above and behind the alter. The music director had no interest whatsoever in a pipe organ installation since all he ever played was a Yamaha pro MIDI keyboard and didn't even touch the old Rodgers electronic organ we had. Even today for all the Sunday Masses he still plays songs on a new Yamaha synthesizer along with his bandmates (with acoustic and electric guitars, bass, and a Roland V-Drums kit), and the congregation loves it!

The old Rodgers recently bought the farm just a few months ago and I thought for sure the organ would be trashed just like the fine old Baldwin baby grand piano that was never maintained and fell into disuse after the purchase of the first Yamaha keyboard. The church instead traded in the old Rodgers at a Tampa Rodgers dealer for a brand new 2 manual drawknob Trillium Series organ so that the assistant organist for the Saturday Mass could still play a traditional instrument (she's a fine classically-trained organist who never touches the Yamaha)! But it just goes to show that even today's electronic organ manufacturers are jumping on the MIDI generated voice bandwagon, and this organ is also equipped with full General MIDI 120-voice compatibilities like the Yamaha keyboard. Naturally, the assistant organist won't ever use the built-in MIDI device, but it's the only way the music director for all the Sunday services will play the new organ at all! He's an exceptional pianist but a lousy organist (he has no organ playing technique whatsoever), and he'll eagerly throw in odd sounding MIDI synthesizer voices along with diapason and flute stops (with his bandmates trying to keep in time...and in tune on guitars and drums)!

And the congregation all love it! Mostly all retirees too. People who grew up on traditional hymn singing who are now rockin' to songs that you'd hear on any pop music radio station IMHO! I only attend the Saturday Mass anymore...at least I get to hear real hymns performed on an organ (which does sound drastically better and more pipe organ-like than the old '80s Rodgers).

[E. Power Biggs]

I have many albums (and a few CDs) of both E. Power Biggs and Virgil Fox on magnificent pipe organs throughout the world. Both virtuosos (now deceased) performed the works of Bach and others with true dedication to the craft, albeit each in their own unique styles. Hearing these organists' many recordings thru a pair of Klipschorns must surely be an aural treat to the ears, but Biggs and Fox were just two of literally thousands of exceptionally gifted organists throughout the world today. Luckily for all of us who don't own Klipschorns, hearing recordings from all these other fine organists played thru any Klipsch loudspeaker is simply stunning (the larger the better, natch). Even my ProMedia 2.1s portray a convincing likeness to the beauty of the pipe organ at higher levels...maybe not as easily as the largest Klipsch, but pretty darn close IMHO!

[The Opening of a Treasure]

Simply amazing...like opening up a 40 year old time capsule![~]

[Mallette CD Distribution]

I'm curious...for those of us who can't make the pilgrimage, is there a way we could purchase the 4 copies at a later date? I wouldn't expect freebies because...well, someone's gotta pay for the discs and the time spent burning them. I'm willing to spend some dough on extraordinary recordings and give my two cent's worth in a review.

[Yo :)]

Looks as if Lisa got scared off from her own thread.

[What electronics do you use?]

I agree with what thebes, Ray, and others have said. To save some money I find it's always a good idea to look for late model used gear, to include clearance, refurbished and demo items. Any reputable brands like Cambridge Audio, Vincent, Rotel, Music Hall, NAD, Denon, Adcom, Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer, and others are a good place to start. Since your RF-82s are sensitive loudspeakers with excellent dynamics, virtually any amplifier and source components from the above list should work well with them. But spend only what you can really afford...buying even quality used equipment these days can be terribly expensive and blow your budget sky-high if you're not careful!

Good luck with your search.

[I think I won the Lottery!]

Wow, it's Christmas in April...congrats on your latest find.[Y]

[Another use for Vodka]

That's hilarious, Max...thanks for the response (and looking forward to your review on Raki as a record cleaning source on an old Culture Club album)![]