ceiling speaker advice needed

[sumo]

OK, here's the background. We had a house built. I talked

the lovely wife into having prewires added for home theater since the

room configuration was going to be difficult to have rear or side

speakers without the wires being very obtrusive. When we added

the 5.1 prewire option, they pointed to a layout and said they normally

put two up front and two in back which I thought was fine. Oh

yeah, I forgot to mention I'm a total noob at this. Anyway, I was

not sure quite how it would work because in the back we have a stairway

that cuts through the wall which would make equal placement almost

impossible. When the house was built I saw that they actually put

the speakers in the ceiling. Now, like I was saying, I don't know

squat about home acoustics, so even though I was a little surprised, I

just thought, "oh, that's how they get around that back wall

problem." I forgot to mention that this room is two stories

tall. Once I started shopping around, I was informed that this

was really not ideal. Great. Soooo, I obvioulsy need some

advice on how to make the best out of this situation.

1. What do I look for in ceiling speakers when they are going to

be 17' in the air pointing straight down? Directional tweeters

will help somewhat. I like the Klipsch sound and feel the

brightness will actually help keep the sound from getting too muddled

traveling that distance. The reference line is pretty much out of

my price range, so I was thinking along the lines of the SCW-2 or 3.

2. If I install rectangular speakers with 8" woofers (15.83"

x 10.23"), am I going to need to put any reinforcing in around the

opening? I have seen in other posts that the installation kit is

not necessary for wall/ceiling materials 3/8" or more thick and that

the speakers will just clamp on, but it just

seems like an awfully big hole in the drywall. Also, are there

precautions that need

to be made to keep vibrations from creating nail pops in the ceiling?

3. I'd like to try to use ceiling speaker layout as the

5.1 arrangemnt that it was intended. However, I am already

conceding that a 7.1 plan may work out better, keeping my old front

speakers to use as the fronts, use the two front ceiling speakers as

the "surrounds" and the two rear ceiling speakers as the "rears".

Of course, tonally matching all the speakers goes out the door, so in

the long run I may end up getting an extra set of fronts. The

question is, does this sound like a better idea than having the

fronts in the ceiling? Or are there any other ideas? Or am

I just screwed?

4. After purchasing a Yamaha 7.1 receiver, I hear that a "warmer"

sounding receiver like Harman Kardon works best with the

Klipsch's. Bah. I really like the Klipsch's, so I was

wondering what you guys thought of this assessment?

So I'm trying to learn here, though it is turning out to be trail by error. Oh well. Any advice?

[mas]

As this has set for so long without a reply I will try to give you a few of my ideas...<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

First, my feelings about ceiling speakers They are great for zoned systems. Period. You have the disadvantage of playing to the short dimension with LOTS of reflections (especially from the floor) and a characteristic intensity distribution plot that is suited for - well, only for zoned systems!. []

Additionally, while in the wall systems have some real advantages with regards to dispersion and reflections; they also present some rather unique problems in mounting them without coupling them to the wall thus turning the drywall into a VERY slow secondary transducer.

In the ceiling, one way to mount them might be to literally mount them to a frame suspended from a rafter in order to decouple the speaker from the ceiling. In addition, in order to seal the attic space from the room below, a rubber or EPDM membrane could be used to seal the seam around the speaker but you need to be careful here as this step risks re-coupling the speaker and ceiling. There are a few other options, but the complexity and cost goes up very quickly.

Still, after you have done this, you are still left with a speaker providing very uneven coverage in the room.

My suggestion, which may not be possible, would be to relocate the pre-wire tails slightly and either punch through the ceiling (and make sure the puncture is sealed) immediately adjacent to the front, side and rear walls (Note: be aware that these locations would be consistent with the 5.1, 7.1, THX, etc. standard that you choose to employ), or to drill though the wall header and effectively fish them a foot or so down the front and rear walls, thus allowing for the mounting of a traditional boxed speaker mounted at an angle high in the room. Of course, if you can have traditionally mounted speakers, I would simply fish the wire further down the walls to exit near the floor.( I am a bit confused as to why the wires would necessarily be "very obtrusive", but then I cannot easily visualize the room.)

I suspect that there are objections to these suggestions, but not seeing the details or topology of the room I can only speak in generalizations.

But a ceiling mount will present some very real limitations in that a 5.1 or 7.1 system is dependent upon a well behaved dispersion in the room. They were never designed for a fundamentally zoned system which is normally used to isolate and preclude such dispersion. And unfortunately, when they are not properly zoned for isolation, the result tends to be the terribly unintelligible systems so often encountered in airports, etc.!

And regarding your question about Yamaha versus other brands... I will leave that for others who seem to relish that debate. Heck, I have almost told you to buy another house with my recommendations.[] I am certainly not going to tell you that you have to buy a new receiver too![]

I know that this is not something you wanted to hear. But I would do what I could to relocate the wire tails close to, or into, the front and side/rear walls. The high mounting point can be addressed relatively easily, but the ceiling mount presents a more substantial problem.

Good luck!

[sumo]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. And I was just getting used to the sound of

chirping crickets that always fills that awkward silence. []

So youre right, it's not exactly what I was

hoping for, but not at all unexpected at this point, either. As for the receiver question, yeah, I

should have just left that off since its not like Im going to run out and

replace it if everybody here hates it.

I

just wanted to say thanks for giving this some thought and taking the time to

respond.

[mas]

If I may, just a couple of questions...

Where are you located (gnerally)? (If you don't mind telling...)

If you can take a few pictures of the room so that it was possible to see where the ceiling mounts are currently located as well as the topology of the surfaces where the front and side/rear speakers would be located, as well as providing some information regarding the nature of the space above - is it a finished space, or attic, etc.; as well as the nature of the space beneath the room - be it slab, crawlspace, finished space, etc., it would really help in proposing possible 'real world' alternative solutions that would not cause more problems then they solve!

I am guessing that your issue can be resolved without alot of pain. But we should see the exact situation before making promises![]